Shouldn't the question be: Where did they think they went once they died?
Quick research showed the historical accounts of Buddha are basically the same as the historical accounts of Jesus. The texts of their respective followers. Same with Moses. Muhammed has some external pseudo-contemporary biographers. But that's the problem with shit that took place so long ago...contemporary records get lost and many records didn't get written down until decades later. So people take that to mean "didn't happen". Even though historians understand the relevance and context...today's "pics or didn't happen" culture doesn't seem to get it.Cybargs wrote:
AFAIK Buddha was pretty legit.FEOS wrote:
I get the questioning of his status as a deity...but I'm actually more than a little surprised that there's even a question of whether Jesus, as a historical figure, existed.Braddock wrote:
I believe he was real... I just don't believe he was the super-human offspring of an all-powerful deity.
Jesus was most likely a charismatic, revolutionary thinker who had a huge influence on those around him (positive in the case of his followers, and negative in the case of those who killed him as a anti-establishment 'heretic'). Back then, without any interwebz, it would have been very easy to build up a mythology around a man and perpetuate it by word of mouth and subjective personal accounts. Historians have even argued that the supposed divinity of Jesus was not even agreed upon until the first Council of Nicaea.
Do people question if Muhammed or Buddha or Moses actually existed--not the religious aspects of their life stories, mind you--just that they existed?
None of which has anything to do with cavemen.
/derail
Last edited by FEOS (2010-01-26 03:59:40)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Probably Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed (PBUH), Hubbard, Moses etc existed, its the message which matters though, not the person.
Cavemen: They probably didn't go to whichever afterlife was in their folklore, same as we aren't going to any of the ones in ours.
Cavemen: They probably didn't go to whichever afterlife was in their folklore, same as we aren't going to any of the ones in ours.
Fuck Israel
They decomposed in the ground, just like the rest of us will. Deal with it!11 Bravo wrote:
Where did cavemen go when they died since they were here before jesus?
/thread.
Last edited by Braddock (2010-01-26 04:05:50)
I think all these people existed, however Jesus and everything about him is probably the most corrupted in terms of how the stories and events have been portrayed. There's just been so much revision and changing of Christian/Jewish texts throughout history, mainly by Europe for political means, that it's hard to take modern texts seriously.
Saying that, it's always just been about it being stories and the underlying moral messages that people should be focusing on rather than the literal sayings.
As for Muhammad, the guy was clearly a war lord/Arab visionary who used religion in order to get his means. It worked. Before him the Arabs were nothing but a bunch of tribes, then after that he managed to unify them and ended up taking over Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine and the Persian Empire.
I put him in the same category as Genghis Khan and ATG etc..
Saying that, it's always just been about it being stories and the underlying moral messages that people should be focusing on rather than the literal sayings.
As for Muhammad, the guy was clearly a war lord/Arab visionary who used religion in order to get his means. It worked. Before him the Arabs were nothing but a bunch of tribes, then after that he managed to unify them and ended up taking over Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine and the Persian Empire.
I put him in the same category as Genghis Khan and ATG etc..
And yes, FEOS, people do question the historicity of all sorts of religious figures despite your anger that they don't. Why do you even bring it up? You just showed that you get all hissy because someone starts questioning your saviour so you go on the offensive towards other religions as a solution.
mohammed, moses, and buddha too to a certain extent - they'd all done stuff worthy of actually researching the matter of them having been real regardless of their divine status. jesus on the other hand - not so much. that's the difference, imho.Braddock wrote:
Same here... I have no doubt at all that he existed. Too many personal and historical accounts of a man for him to have simply been a work of fiction.FEOS wrote:
I get the questioning of his status as a deity...but I'm actually more than a little surprised that there's even a question of whether Jesus, as a historical figure, existed.Braddock wrote:
I believe he was real... I just don't believe he was the super-human offspring of an all-powerful deity.
Jesus was most likely a charismatic, revolutionary thinker who had a huge influence on those around him (positive in the case of his followers, and negative in the case of those who killed him as a anti-establishment 'heretic'). Back then, without any interwebz, it would have been very easy to build up a mythology around a man and perpetuate it by word of mouth and subjective personal accounts. Historians have even argued that the supposed divinity of Jesus was not even agreed upon until the first Council of Nicaea.
Do people question if Muhammed or Buddha or Moses actually existed--not the religious aspects of their life stories, mind you--just that they existed?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
No I didn't.Mekstizzle wrote:
And yes, FEOS, people do question the historicity of all sorts of religious figures despite your anger that they don't. Why do you even bring it up? You just showed that you get all hissy because someone starts questioning your saviour so you go on the offensive towards other religions as a solution.
But see Shahter's post as an example of what you just brought up.
But since you did bring it up, point to where the other religious figures' historicity is questioned, and if it is, point to where it is questioned to nearly the extent that Jesus' historicity is questioned. I didn't go on any offensive. I pointed out an inconsistency, then Shahter was kind enough to reinforce it.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
It probably is in regions where those religions are more prevalent.
Over here (the Western world) where Christianity is the prevalent religion, and also where there's a much larger religiously sceptical/liberal population and all that, it's only natural that Christianity gets the magnifying glass much more than other religions, surely. Just simple logic really
Over here (the Western world) where Christianity is the prevalent religion, and also where there's a much larger religiously sceptical/liberal population and all that, it's only natural that Christianity gets the magnifying glass much more than other religions, surely. Just simple logic really
wat? i simply posted my opinion on the matter: setting the religious stuff aside, there's nothing important about jesus to bother researching him having been real, unlike other figures you mentioned. how does that reinforce that "inconsistency" of yours?FEOS wrote:
No I didn't.Mekstizzle wrote:
And yes, FEOS, people do question the historicity of all sorts of religious figures despite your anger that they don't. Why do you even bring it up? You just showed that you get all hissy because someone starts questioning your saviour so you go on the offensive towards other religions as a solution.
But see Shahter's post as an example of what you just brought up.
But since you did bring it up, point to where the other religious figures' historicity is questioned, and if it is, point to where it is questioned to nearly the extent that Jesus' historicity is questioned. I didn't go on any offensive. I pointed out an inconsistency, then Shahter was kind enough to reinforce it.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
On, not by.eleven bravo wrote:
they were judged by the anvil of crom
noliquidat0r wrote:
Shouldn't the question be: Where did they think they went once they died?
They went North, for the winter.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
'Then [Virgil] said, "You do not ask
what sort of souls are these you see around you.
Now you should know, before we go on farther,
they have not sinned. But their great worth alone
was not enough, for they did not know Baptism,
which is the gateway to the faith you follow,
and if they came before the birth of Christ,
they did not worship God the way one should,
I myself am a member of this group..."
They're chilling in Limbo.
Dante, bitches.
what sort of souls are these you see around you.
Now you should know, before we go on farther,
they have not sinned. But their great worth alone
was not enough, for they did not know Baptism,
which is the gateway to the faith you follow,
and if they came before the birth of Christ,
they did not worship God the way one should,
I myself am a member of this group..."
They're chilling in Limbo.
Dante, bitches.
EE (hats
Probably one of the stupidest questions ever asked.11 Bravo wrote:
Where did cavemen go when they died since they were here before jesus?
ya i saw it on yahoo answers. now piss off.Ticia wrote:
Probably one of the stupidest questions ever asked.11 Bravo wrote:
Where did cavemen go when they died since they were here before jesus?
Oh you're the type who needs to go to yahoo answers to come up with a thread. I get it now11 Bravo wrote:
ya i saw it on yahoo answers. now piss off.Ticia wrote:
Probably one of the stupidest questions ever asked.11 Bravo wrote:
Where did cavemen go when they died since they were here before jesus?
yes i have to do that you are so smart i envy you. excuse me while i go drool in a cup.Ticia wrote:
Oh you're the type who needs to go to yahoo answers to come up with a thread. I get it now11 Bravo wrote:
ya i saw it on yahoo answers. now piss off.Ticia wrote:
Probably one of the stupidest questions ever asked.
Huh?Shahter wrote:
wat? i simply posted my opinion on the matter: setting the religious stuff aside, there's nothing important about jesus to bother researching him having been real, unlike other figures you mentioned. how does that reinforce that "inconsistency" of yours?
That's like saying, "Setting WWII aside, there's nothing important about Hitler."
That may be true, but it ignores the blatantly obvious. Jesus (or his character, if you don't think he existed) is EXTREMELY important to history.
why don't you try reading the whole post, huh? you just rephrased what i said and threw it back. i never said jesus' character wasn't important - that is obvious. i said that for those who do not beleave in fairy tales, myself included, it's not important to know if that character is based on a real person - think odissey for example, does it matter to you if he was real or not? while other religious figures mentioned above are said to have done some historically significant stuff to warrant the research of the matter regardless of one's religious beleafs.RAIMIUS wrote:
Huh?Shahter wrote:
wat? i simply posted my opinion on the matter: setting the religious stuff aside, there's nothing important about jesus to bother researching him having been real, unlike other figures you mentioned. how does that reinforce that "inconsistency" of yours?
That's like saying, "Setting WWII aside, there's nothing important about Hitler."
That may be true, but it ignores the blatantly obvious. Jesus (or his character, if you don't think he existed) is EXTREMELY important to history.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
When you look around you at the world (Nature not concrete jungles) just look at everything and think to yourself, could this possibly have been chance (Big Bang)?=NHB=Shadow wrote:
Is jesus even real? i mean a group of peopel could have maed him up and they could have ebeen like look thsi guy is like the best guy ever
I mean, you've got DNA and atoms and all this crazy stuff. Are you going to tell me this just randomly accidentally happened? DNA is like a code, somebody had to program it, be it God, Allah or whoever the hell but somebody had to make it.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
So you don't believe Alexander the Great existed, then?Shahter wrote:
why don't you try reading the whole post, huh? you just rephrased what i said and threw it back. i never said jesus' character wasn't important - that is obvious. i said that for those who do not beleave in fairy tales, myself included, it's not important to know if that character is based on a real person - think odissey for example, does it matter to you if he was real or not? while other religious figures mentioned above are said to have done some historically significant stuff to warrant the research of the matter regardless of one's religious beleafs.RAIMIUS wrote:
Huh?Shahter wrote:
wat? i simply posted my opinion on the matter: setting the religious stuff aside, there's nothing important about jesus to bother researching him having been real, unlike other figures you mentioned. how does that reinforce that "inconsistency" of yours?
That's like saying, "Setting WWII aside, there's nothing important about Hitler."
That may be true, but it ignores the blatantly obvious. Jesus (or his character, if you don't think he existed) is EXTREMELY important to history.
Or Socrates?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
i think you are seriously underestimating the impact of christianity and thus jesus has had on western society in terms of shaping it and its history.Shahter wrote:
why don't you try reading the whole post, huh? you just rephrased what i said and threw it back. i never said jesus' character wasn't important - that is obvious. i said that for those who do not beleave in fairy tales, myself included, it's not important to know if that character is based on a real person - think odissey for example, does it matter to you if he was real or not? while other religious figures mentioned above are said to have done some historically significant stuff to warrant the research of the matter regardless of one's religious beleafs.RAIMIUS wrote:
Huh?Shahter wrote:
wat? i simply posted my opinion on the matter: setting the religious stuff aside, there's nothing important about jesus to bother researching him having been real, unlike other figures you mentioned. how does that reinforce that "inconsistency" of yours?
That's like saying, "Setting WWII aside, there's nothing important about Hitler."
That may be true, but it ignores the blatantly obvious. Jesus (or his character, if you don't think he existed) is EXTREMELY important to history.
Last edited by Spark (2010-01-27 03:35:32)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
i do.FEOS wrote:
So you don't believe Alexander the Great existed, then?
Or Socrates?
i'm not underestimating the impact of neither christianity nor jesus' character. i'm just saying that neither requires him having been real - the nonsencial stories of christianity work either way.Spark wrote:
i think you are seriously underestimating the impact of christianity and thus jesus has had on western society in terms of shaping it and its history.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
well Neanderthals the true caveman were killed off by Homosepians and the rest of died out and interbred with Homosepians...
For example, remains associated with modern human anatomy have been found at Qafzeh in Israel dating to 90,000 years ago. These remains predate Neanderthal remains such as those at Kebara Cave, also in Israel, by about 30,000 years. Since Neanderthals appear after modern humans, it is unlikely that these modern humans evolved from the Neanderthals.