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2010-01-18 07:40:03
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Varegg wrote:

I think most of you guys are putting too much thought into this ... you can overanalyze the choosing of this song but the fact remains it is a song widely chosen for its simplicity and easy to memorate lyrics ... so in most cases there is nothing political, nothing religious behind the choice ...
Yes, it's a pretty song that makes you feel good if you don't delve too deep into it. But if they're singing the song in a pageant at school it's a big issue. The song is communist propaganda that was written at a time when we were at war with communists.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-01-18 07:40:43)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-18 07:43:28
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7096|Nårvei

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

I think most of you guys are putting too much thought into this ... you can overanalyze the choosing of this song but the fact remains it is a song widely chosen for its simplicity and easy to memorate lyrics ... so in most cases there is nothing political, nothing religious behind the choice ...
Yes, it's a pretty song that makes you feel good if you don't delve too deep into it. But if they're singing the song in a pageant at school it's a big issue. The song is communist propaganda that was written at a time when we were at war with communists.
BS

It becomes what you make it into ... if you think it is communist propaganda it will be just that for you ... Lennon was anti-war and not anti-USA or pro-communism ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-01-18 07:47:39
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Varegg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

I think most of you guys are putting too much thought into this ... you can overanalyze the choosing of this song but the fact remains it is a song widely chosen for its simplicity and easy to memorate lyrics ... so in most cases there is nothing political, nothing religious behind the choice ...
Yes, it's a pretty song that makes you feel good if you don't delve too deep into it. But if they're singing the song in a pageant at school it's a big issue. The song is communist propaganda that was written at a time when we were at war with communists.
BS

It becomes what you make it into ... if you think it is communist propaganda it will be just that for you ... Lennon was anti-war and not anti-USA or pro-communism ...
The lyrics are very pro-communist. Read the words. He's describing the Marxist Utopia.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-18 07:51:00
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5988|College Park, MD
or he's just describing a peaceful world

I think you're reading way too into it John. You're starting to sound like the kind of guy who hears helicopters fly over when he's thinking bad thoughts about the government and assumes they're watching and listening.

Honestly I'd be more offended if my (hypothetical) kids were being forced to sing that "Soulja Boy" crap. Because that's not even music.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2010-01-18 07:51:27
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7002

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Yes, it's a pretty song that makes you feel good if you don't delve too deep into it. But if they're singing the song in a pageant at school it's a big issue. The song is communist propaganda that was written at a time when we were at war with communists.
BS

It becomes what you make it into ... if you think it is communist propaganda it will be just that for you ... Lennon was anti-war and not anti-USA or pro-communism ...
The lyrics are very pro-communist. Read the words. He's describing the Marxist Utopia.
yeah like "no possessions" GUVMENT TOOK MAH BABY.

Anyway Lennon took way too much acid and smoked too much pot. But either way the song spreads a good message about peace (except for the whole commie part).
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-01-18 07:52:50
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:


BS

It becomes what you make it into ... if you think it is communist propaganda it will be just that for you ... Lennon was anti-war and not anti-USA or pro-communism ...
The lyrics are very pro-communist. Read the words. He's describing the Marxist Utopia.
yeah like "no possessions" GUVMENT TOOK MAH BABY.

Anyway Lennon took way too much acid and smoked too much pot. But either way the song spreads a good message about peace (except for the whole commie part).
I guess it's better than the "We are the world" song I had to sing in school when I was a kid
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-18 07:54:52
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:


BS

It becomes what you make it into ... if you think it is communist propaganda it will be just that for you ... Lennon was anti-war and not anti-USA or pro-communism ...
The lyrics are very pro-communist. Read the words. He's describing the Marxist Utopia.
yeah like "no possessions" GUVMENT TOOK MAH BABY.

Anyway Lennon took way too much acid and smoked too much pot. But either way the song spreads a good message about peace (except for the whole commie part).
It isn't even that hard hitting that it can be construed as a message. He's asking the listener to "imagine" not "agree". That's only a good thing, to imagine and understand more viewpoints and opinions than the ones that are mainstream or you agree with. Anyway It's not going to physcially hurt the girl to sing the song, but then again I never sung hymns at my school and I used to get in fucking trouble for it. Imagine that.
2010-01-18 07:59:54
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6971|United States of America
This topic's quite interesting to me. I had listened to this song years ago and never had a problem with it but now I genuinely don't like it because of these lyrics. (Really a lot of the late Beatles stuff, actually). It's strange, too, because I've got loads of songs I like with socialist messages in them, but they don't create the same feeling as "Imagine" for me.
2010-01-18 08:07:11
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6864|Columbus, OH
John Lennon message in my opinion was about unification of world peace by setting aside Religion, Social Status, Money/Wealth, borders, etc.
He simply believed in man helping man, unconditional love for your fellow being. To label him or his ideas as a marxist or communist, would be slapping John in the face, even both his idea and marxism acheive the same results.

To the OP: I do not know how strong your Christian values are and how much emphasis you want it in your family values but it is probably some thing you personally want to tell/remind your child(ren). Everyone has an opinion about religion and God, new religion is spawned from old religion. people will not always share the same view as you, your family, or your churches view. It is not for debate on who is right. Your children need to learn acceptance. For yourself, you will have to accept, your children may not follow the same religious path as you.
2010-01-18 08:12:04
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

loubot wrote:

John Lennon message in my opinion was about unification of world peace by setting aside Religion, Social Status, Money/Wealth, borders, etc.
He simply believed in man helping man, unconditional love for your fellow being. To label him or his ideas as a marxist or communist, would be slapping John in the face, even both his idea and marxism acheive the same results.

To the OP: I do not know how strong your Christian values are and how much emphasis you want it in your family values but it is probably some thing you personally want to tell/remind your child(ren). Everyone has an opinion about religion and God, new religion is spawned from old religion. people will not always share the same view as you, your family, or your churches view. It is not for debate on who is right. Your children need to learn acceptance. For yourself, you will have to accept, your children may not follow the same religious path as you.
Dude, you're as confused as the nitwits that say a single payer health care system is not socialist.  Everything you described, a world without religion, social status, money, wealth or borders is the fucking Marxist Utopia.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-18 08:21:15
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6280|Truthistan

Macbeth wrote:

If a school tries to make a child sing a song with strong religious undertones all of the teenage internet atheist would be having a fit but since a Christian objects to a song it's him being "ignorant and close minded".

Some of you really need to get real. As much as other atheist would hate to have to sing a song about 'The Love and Forgivness of Christ', his child objects to a song which suggest her religion is a negative factor. It's perfectly reasonable considering in her religion she has to one day defend her life and actions.

Aside from that, it's pretty funny some of the "rah rah religion is bad" crowd hates Christianity but largely defends a huge amount of Christian moral points. But that's another issue.
You can flip that around to, why do christians feel the song is a threat when it sings of christian values like peace and love


And Galt, its really a hippy song not a soviet song.... You're supposed to smoke up, lay back, and do nothing...



But if you wanted to fight the song it shouldn't be to hard. The song is atheist and religious in nature, the school is probably breaking the seperation of church and state. It would be kind refreshing for some hardened christian group to take this one on and argue that there should be a seperation of church and state.... just imagine.

anyway, a lot of people would have a cow if the school started making them sing....

Our God is an awesome God
Our God is an awesome God
He reigns from heaven above with wisdom
And power and love our God is an awesome God
(repeat 5X)??????????? <---- really? repeat five times?

John Lennon/The Beetles could sure write a song.... christian rock song writers, uhhh not so much.
2010-01-18 08:23:06
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire
I have to sit through the fucking Angelus every day at six o'clock on the supposedly secular State broadcast network RTÉ... so it's swings and roundabouts I guess.

Just continue to brainwash your children at home and things should be fine.
2010-01-18 08:27:08
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6864|Columbus, OH

JohnG@lt wrote:

loubot wrote:

John Lennon message in my opinion was about unification of world peace by setting aside Religion, Social Status, Money/Wealth, borders, etc.
He simply believed in man helping man, unconditional love for your fellow being. To label him or his ideas as a marxist or communist, would be slapping John in the face, even both his idea and marxism acheive the same results.

To the OP: I do not know how strong your Christian values are and how much emphasis you want it in your family values but it is probably some thing you personally want to tell/remind your child(ren). Everyone has an opinion about religion and God, new religion is spawned from old religion. people will not always share the same view as you, your family, or your churches view. It is not for debate on who is right. Your children need to learn acceptance. For yourself, you will have to accept, your children may not follow the same religious path as you.
Dude, you're as confused as the nitwits that say a single payer health care system is not socialist.  Everything you described, a world without religion, social status, money, wealth or borders is the fucking Marxist Utopia.
Yes but in John Lennon's song he wanted everyone to leave ALL of their beliefs at the door. Does a Marxist Uptopia weed out racism or biogtry?
2010-01-18 08:29:33
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

loubot wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

loubot wrote:

John Lennon message in my opinion was about unification of world peace by setting aside Religion, Social Status, Money/Wealth, borders, etc.
He simply believed in man helping man, unconditional love for your fellow being. To label him or his ideas as a marxist or communist, would be slapping John in the face, even both his idea and marxism acheive the same results.

To the OP: I do not know how strong your Christian values are and how much emphasis you want it in your family values but it is probably some thing you personally want to tell/remind your child(ren). Everyone has an opinion about religion and God, new religion is spawned from old religion. people will not always share the same view as you, your family, or your churches view. It is not for debate on who is right. Your children need to learn acceptance. For yourself, you will have to accept, your children may not follow the same religious path as you.
Dude, you're as confused as the nitwits that say a single payer health care system is not socialist.  Everything you described, a world without religion, social status, money, wealth or borders is the fucking Marxist Utopia.
Yes but in John Lennon's song he wanted everyone to leave ALL of their beliefs at the door. Does a Marxist Uptopia weed out racism or biogtry?
Well, its about equality for all, right down to the slices of bread you were allowed to eat in a day, so yeah, racism and bigotry really don't have a place in an environment like that.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-18 08:42:25
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire
With just a few amendments...

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

...this song becomes about as Christian as it gets when it comes to Jesus Christ's worldview: everyone equal, no materialism, no false idols before God, no violence towards your fellow man. I guess Jesus must have been "fucking Marxist" then?
2010-01-18 12:06:22
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Braddock wrote:

With just a few amendments...

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

...this song becomes about as Christian as it gets when it comes to Jesus Christ's worldview: everyone equal, no materialism, no false idols before God, no violence towards your fellow man. I guess Jesus must have been "fucking Marxist" then?
The biggest mistake Marx ever made was to be an atheist. He would've had a lot more people following his social and economic theories
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-18 12:24:39
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6508|teh FIN-land

Varegg wrote:

They prolly chose the song based on the fact that it is a good song to choir for kids, the lyrics are simple and the tune is catchy ...
This.

In fact they probably chose it BECAUSE of its non-religious matter. The poor music teacher tried to please everyone (i.e. not choosing a 'Christian' song) and still gets slated. Jeez who'd be a teacher?!
2010-01-18 13:01:44
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire

JohnG@lt wrote:

Braddock wrote:

With just a few amendments...

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

...this song becomes about as Christian as it gets when it comes to Jesus Christ's worldview: everyone equal, no materialism, no false idols before God, no violence towards your fellow man. I guess Jesus must have been "fucking Marxist" then?
The biggest mistake Marx ever made was to be an atheist. He would've had a lot more people following his social and economic theories
You're actually probably right, he attempted too much too soon with his ideology. Mankind's not ready to get rid of religion yet... too many weak-minded lovers of fairy tales still out there.
2010-01-18 13:03:49
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire

ruisleipa wrote:

Varegg wrote:

They prolly chose the song based on the fact that it is a good song to choir for kids, the lyrics are simple and the tune is catchy ...
This.

In fact they probably chose it BECAUSE of its non-religious matter. The poor music teacher tried to please everyone (i.e. not choosing a 'Christian' song) and still gets slated. Jeez who'd be a teacher?!
You are right on the money with this train of thought.

People talk about Muslims being finicky about their religion but this is the shit you have to put up with from Christians, they're all as bad as each other tbh.
2010-01-18 13:06:12
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

I think most of you guys are putting too much thought into this ... you can overanalyze the choosing of this song but the fact remains it is a song widely chosen for its simplicity and easy to memorate lyrics ... so in most cases there is nothing political, nothing religious behind the choice ...
Yes, it's a pretty song that makes you feel good if you don't delve too deep into it. But if they're singing the song in a pageant at school it's a big issue. The song is communist propaganda that was written at a time when we were at war with communists.
"Communist propaganda"... yeah, or maybe it was just John Lennon's personal opinions? Some of the comments in this forum make me think America is another planet entirely.
2010-01-18 13:10:24
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6783

Braddock wrote:

"Communist propaganda"... yeah, or maybe it was just John Lennon's personal opinions? Some of the comments in this forum make me think America is another planet entirely.
oughtta try living here.
2010-01-18 13:27:42
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6971|United States of America

Braddock wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Braddock wrote:

With just a few amendments...

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

...this song becomes about as Christian as it gets when it comes to Jesus Christ's worldview: everyone equal, no materialism, no false idols before God, no violence towards your fellow man. I guess Jesus must have been "fucking Marxist" then?
The biggest mistake Marx ever made was to be an atheist. He would've had a lot more people following his social and economic theories
You're actually probably right, he attempted too much too soon with his ideology. Mankind's not ready to get rid of religion yet... too many weak-minded lovers of fairy tales still out there.
Of course we can't have a thread without the "weak-minded" being thrown in there.
Religion has a shit-ton more to do with life than the creation myths, which, although interesting, have little merit as religious tools.
2010-01-18 14:07:42
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6576|Éire

DesertFox- wrote:

Of course we can't have a thread without the "weak-minded" being thrown in there.
Religion has a shit-ton more to do with life than the creation myths, which, although interesting, have little merit as religious tools.
If your philosophical view of life has to incorporate magic, invisible deities, and unproven promises of eternal salvation in another spiritual realm then you're an escapist. It's that simple.
2010-01-18 14:09:48
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6666|MN

Braddock wrote:

I have to sit through the fucking Angelus every day at six o'clock on the supposedly secular State broadcast network RTÉ... so it's swings and roundabouts I guess.

Just continue to brainwash your children at home and things should be fine.
You have a choice to turn it off do you not?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2010-01-18 14:10:41
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6824|Long Island, New York
And here I was thinking the political correctness usually comes from the left...

I sang Christmas songs when I was a kid. I went to Church for funerals. I celebrated Easter. I might be Jewish, but when you think about it's really just not a big deal. It's not like she's singing a song advocating the destruction of all Christians on the planet. It's Imagine ffs.

 

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