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2006-04-19 12:41:26
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6838|Cologne, Germany

Talon wrote:

most densely populated region on earth " the Gaza strip "
Surely Mexico City, Rio De Janerio, Jakarta, etc are far more densely populated?

Israel has around 7 mill. people, Iran has 68 mill. . Even with the IDF being as professional and strong as they are, they would not be able to muster enough soldiers to successfully stage an attack on Iran.
You do realise being in the army for 2 years is compulsory in Israel at age 18? That means everyone in the country has military training, and they can do instant conscription and get an army of ready trained soldiers.
yeah, I also read the wikipedia article. But it also stated that at best Israel could muster 800,000 soldiers from reserves. But that's for defensive purposes. They surely don't have the transport and supply capabilities to support that many troops in an offensive war against a country that's nearly 80 times larger and they don't even share a border with.

Air strikes against selected targets in Iran maybe, but a full fleged ground attack on Iranian territory ? I am sorry, but I don't think that's realistic.
2006-04-19 14:35:07
Talon
Stop reading this and look at my post
+341|6757
I have family in Israel, I dont need wikipedia. My cousin drives a tank there.

Anyway, I didnt quite realise what I was quoting there. I wouldnt expect them to stage a ground invasion, but I doubt the Iranians could handle it (invading Israel) either. I dont know the state of the Iranian Air Force, but the Israeli one is well equipped with F16s at the momenet (they used to use their own jets, but lack of export customers forced them to cancel their last project)
2006-04-19 17:47:22
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6651|United States of America

JahManRed wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

With all the crap the US and its real Allies is taking from the world for spending billions and peacefully removing the last crazy warmonger in the Middle East, I doubt this or the next President of the United States will be too willing to take the lead in getting rid of the one in Iran.

So now what??? Isreal will start doing air strikes on its own and every country in the Middle East will then go nuts and terrorist will retaliate against (the only people it can) Europe, America, and Canada.  I can already hear all the countries lining up to blame Isreal and not the terrorist or Islamic states for all the violence.  Not so unlike the whole cartoon of Mohamad was the problem and Isreal is blame for the violence between them and Palestin.

or

Europe takes care of a problem in its own backyard..... LOL, just kidding.

or

Europe talks and talks and makes empty threats through the UN until Iran one day Nukes Isreal and threatens Europe. Europe then cries bloody murder about how the US made this all happen and it is the US's fault for not taking care of it.

or

Mexicans hear that if you sneak into Iran you get free medical care, tax free job, free education (in spanish), and the right to march down the street demanding citizenship without being haul off and deported. This of course leads to 6 million illegal mexicans going to Iran a year which normalizes the country and dilutes the radical Islamic Retards.

Which senerio is most likely, or did I miss one????
THIS IS THE TYPICAL AMERICAN RIGHT WING ATTITUDE THATS RUINING THIS WORLD. Problem is, no one in the USA can remember past the birth of McDonnalds.
Isreal was just a land grab. All the land was stolen of other countries. Ok they have a right because of religous books tell them they came from there. BUT HELLO not everyone is Jewish. The USA would allow a load of Islamic settlers to claim Florida because the Karan says its a holy area. You didnt let the british do it, hence 4th July...... look at the big picture folks and stop the double standards. From being in the USA a load of times I realised that I see more news about american policies and what is really going on with america and I live in Ireland. The media spoon feeds the people what the government wants to hear. The truth is that the money in america is controlled by Jews and the government has to do whatever to keep these ppl happy, even if that meens supporting a terrorist state at any cost.
Iran is an Idolical state. They are very advanced and shock horror, women work and go to university and dont have to cover themselves up. Iran like every other state is worried about the impending energy crisis and why the hell wouldnt it enrich urenium? It has to be enriched to 85% to make a bomb, they have it enriched to 0.3%, enough to make power. Who the hell does the USA, the only country to invent and use a nuke in a time of war think it is dictating to. Its a smoke screen in my opinion, to, like Iraq, gain control of one of the last reserves of crude oil. At least the Iranian president was elected by his people, not like BUSH who rigged the election. If that election rig happened in Europe the people would uprise (see the Orange revolution last year) and make the government change. In america, people sit back, its ok we will still have our lifestyle at the expence of the rest of the worlds stability. BUSH IS THE TERRORIST.!!!
Some little boy in Ireland is getting an F in history, unless he has a Nazi for a teacher. 

That'll do pig; That'll do.....
2006-04-19 19:52:15
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6597|132 and Bush

Daysniper wrote:

Capt. Foley wrote:

Daysniper wrote:

Can I add a new one?

Israel will be nuked off the map.
The US will retaliate with 250 (that's all of them) ICBM strikes at urban centers in Iran, ending with a full-scale invasion. The world will be plunged into a period of hatred and darkness comparable to the Medieval
period in Europe.
i think u forgot a 0
we have over 2000 nuclear war heads and we arent going to lauch more then 4 at max
your right. Sorry, typo. it should be about 2500. I think
The United States maintains a sizeable arsenal of nearly 10,000 nuclear warheads, of which nearly 6,000 are operational and the remainder in reserve or inactive stockpiles.  Approximately 1,700 warheads are deployed on land-based missile systems, 1,098 on bombers, and 3,168 on submarines (Ohio-class subs). Approximately 800 are tactical nuclear weapons (TNWs), and consist of Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles and B61 bombs. The remaining warheads are stockpiled.

I believe "The Peacekeeper" had 10 warheads in each missle to avoid missle defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:W87_ … ematic.jpg

Here is also some information on the amount of nuclear weapons in the US and Soviet Union arsenal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_a … kpiles.png
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-04-19 19:56:53
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6597|132 and Bush

Horseman 77 wrote:

The threats are very vague " israel will be punished " etc. They never came out and said " We will do XXXXXX to israel "

If they are a threat, israel will know about it and take the necessary action that is in their own best interests no matter what the results.
TEHRAN, Iran - The president of
Iran again lashed out at
Israel on Friday and said it was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time.

"The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&a … _israel_10
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-04-19 20:05:24
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6671|Canberra, AUS
There is a class of submarine (forgot its name) that is momentously dangerous.

A fully-armed ... class submarine can drop nuclear warheads on every major citiy in Europe, every state capital in the US and still have some over.

That's freaky.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-04-19 20:06:25
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6671|Canberra, AUS
BTW, don't we have enough threads on Iran? I've found 4 and I haven't started looking.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-04-19 21:38:35
bruisehound
Member
+14|6777
Thank you, rdx-fx.
That might be the most enjoyable post I've ever read on a forum.
It was balanced and informative (and enjoyably wandering).
2006-04-19 21:49:21
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6640
rdx-fx

who were you with when you served?
2006-04-19 23:58:12
BVC
Member
+325|6692
IF Iran is nuked as part of a pre-emptive strike, even with bunker-busters, the effect on the Iranian people would be similar to the effect the 9/11 attacks had on the people of America.  America had never been attacked like that on its own soil before.  Way over here I saw confusion and hurt at first, but it was quickly replaced by patriotism reminiscent of the cold war US, and anger like I've never seen before.  The only act of terrorism that ever took place here only killed one person, and he wasn't even a NZer, yet people still get worked up about it even now...knowing this makes it hard to imagine how you Americans must feel!

Iran will be no different, except they won't feel the initial confusion; they'll know who did it from day one, and once the anger sets in there WILL be war, and not just with Iran.  MEC vs USA; two wounded, angry bulls.

...

Of course, if Iran struck first they'd likely be beaten into a pulp and I imagine their neighbours wouldn't feel too bad about letting the Allies use their turf...nobody wants to live next to a madman.

Last edited by Pubic (2006-04-20 00:00:38)

2006-04-20 00:18:42
dan500
Member
+57|6844
What will the out-come be?

Jew's Dead = Be like Hilter all over again, it will be like the Iran's president is Hilter all over again, then US and UK team up again, then other countries will get up Irans arse, and it will be WW2 all over again (This time we added Nukes for fun).
2006-04-20 01:56:05
JahManRed
wank
+646|6624|IRELAND

rdx-fx wrote:

Partially in response to JahManRed, partially because I noticed this forum seems more European than American.  I'm former U.S. Army enlisted (well, NCO.. close enough) for what it's worth.

JahManRed:"Problem is, no one in the USA can remember past the birth of McDonnalds." etc etc.

An exaggeration, to be sure.  Yes, our media is myopic, slanted, and geared towards ADHD-prone mouth-breathers.  It's embarrasing to see how self-absorbed our news is.  Personally, i prefer to watch BBC world, CNBC-world, DeutscheWelt (sp?) - as it gives much better coverage of world events.  Screw CNN, and their 24/7 "missing pretty sorority girl" crap.

The majority of our (American) population has no idea what goes on in the rest of the world.  They're perfectly content to live their nice safe protected WalMart existence.  As an American Soldier, that's something to be somewhat proud of - most our wives and daughters have no idea exactly how brutal/capricious/random life in the real world can be.

And, I'll concede that many Americans can't be bother to give a rat's behind what happens 'over there', unless it's bad for their stock portfolio.  Many.  Not most. Not All.

IMHO, the most dangerous aspect of America's general myopic, petulant nature = it's too easy to get the appearance of a public consensus on whatever knee-jerk hot topic du jour.   Note: 'appearance of'. What you see on our media doesn't reflect the opinions of most of us.  What you see on our news is the vocal minority - the sound bite that'll make the most 'traction', or the best ratings.
[myopic = short sighted.  petulant = like a whiny child screaming 'cause he wants a new toy].

Yes, some of us can remember 'past the birth of McDonalds'.  Hell of a way to put it - quite funny really.
America can claim credit for; invention of manned flight, men on the moon, the precursor to the internet, nuclear power, etc, etc..  coming to the aid of our allies in WW-1, WW-2, korea, kuwait, etc, etc.
We also (with Russia) did a pretty good job of NOT blowing the world up during the cold war.
Rah rah rah, wave the flag, throw a parade. Cool, whatever.  I personally can't take credit for any of those things 'America' did in the past.

"Isreal was just a land grab"....
I don't see how the formation of Israel (or reformation, or whatever) is the 'fault' of the U.S.
If I recall correctly, the formation of Israel after WW-2 was an international agreement.
Also, before WW-2, there was a general anti-semetic attitude around the world.  Not the rabid Nazi anti-semetic attitude, but varying levels of making jewish people the scapegoats for a variety of undeserved problems.  After WW-2, It looked like the world collectively woke up from a nightmare and said 'oh, crap! what the hell just happened ?!'.  Reincorporating the jewish population back into europe, like nothing ever happened would've seemed like a long, painful, slow process.  'sorry about the whole genocide thing.  here, have a nice chunk of desert to call home.  you like Jerusalem?  it's yours' - probably seemed like an elegant, easy, fast solution. Not such a bright idea to pick the ONE chunk of land that's been fought over the most in the last 2000 years.  Hindsight is 20/20 and all.  Politically expedient, and a good-intentioned effort by the world to ease it's conscience.  Worth mentioning also, is the large jewish community that made such a large effort to make Israel 'happen' at all.

[Before I start a flamewar: Yes, that's probably an overly glib description.  A bit easier to summarize a touchy part of history using a bit of humor.  I'm not writing a history book, I'm writing in a @#%ing internet forum.].

Hmm, I'm getting a bit longwinded here.
About useless to write a damn thesis on some random forum - but I'm on a rant, and I'm bored.

As far as Persians vs Arabs vs Israelis vs Turkey vs Whoever..
Persians aren't considered Arabic.  Kind of like calling an American a Brit, but much much worse.
(Ignorant, insensitive, and likely to get one beaten/killed if such a mistake is made in just the wrong setting).
Part of the difficulty with the first Gulf War was that Saudi Arabi was getting the 'stink eye' from alot of Arab countries for allowing a non-muslim coalition to use their territory to attack a muslim country(Iraq).  Even if the coalition was trying to aid another muslim country (kuwait).  Conflicts between Arabic countries aren't supposed to involve non-arabics, if they're supposed to happen at all.  In an Iran/Iraq war, it was muslim/muslim BUT arab/persian - arabic nations would generally favor Iraq.  In an Iran/Israel conflict, it would be muslim/non-muslim, and 'worse' yet muslim/jew - arabic-muslim and nonarabic-muslim countries would be expected to favor Iran.

As far as Iraq's alleged WMDs go (and, again, my opinion)..
After the Gulf War, Iraq's army was pretty much toast.  Saddam made a great deal of noise about having WMDs, to ensure that other countries wouldn't get too eager to invade Iraq. He had no real army, and many reasons to fear - he needed a magic trump card to ensure noone deposed him, from within or from ouside his borders.  Hinting at having hidden WMDs to his potential enemies = insurance policy for Saddam. Big problem for Iraq was that the U.S. believed his story too.  Not really a solid reason for invasion, but..     

In that region, respect comes from perceived power - force of arms, force of personality, money, etc. 
The 'talk, talk, talk' that western nations are so fond of .. looks like pure weakness and drivel there.
Where Americans respect the Office of the President in spite of disrespect for the man, Arabic outlook is to respect the Man regardless of what the title is, and somewhat regardless of some 'minor' atrocities.
Way oversimplified, but a handshake and one's word means a lot more than "we're from the government and we're here to help".  Again, oversimple explanation - but much more true than not.

Neh.  wasted too much time on this already.
Great post man, im glad we can have some serious debate here and I totally respect and agree with most of what you say.

Major_Spittle wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

With all the crap the US and its real Allies is taking from the world for spending billions and peacefully removing the last crazy warmonger in the Middle East, I doubt this or the next President of the United States will be too willing to take the lead in getting rid of the one in Iran.

So now what??? Isreal will start doing air strikes on its own and every country in the Middle East will then go nuts and terrorist will retaliate against (the only people it can) Europe, America, and Canada.  I can already hear all the countries lining up to blame Isreal and not the terrorist or Islamic states for all the violence.  Not so unlike the whole cartoon of Mohamad was the problem and Isreal is blame for the violence between them and Palestin.

or

Europe takes care of a problem in its own backyard..... LOL, just kidding.

or

Europe talks and talks and makes empty threats through the UN until Iran one day Nukes Isreal and threatens Europe. Europe then cries bloody murder about how the US made this all happen and it is the US's fault for not taking care of it.

or

Mexicans hear that if you sneak into Iran you get free medical care, tax free job, free education (in spanish), and the right to march down the street demanding citizenship without being haul off and deported. This of course leads to 6 million illegal mexicans going to Iran a year which normalizes the country and dilutes the radical Islamic Retards.

Which senerio is most likely, or did I miss one????
THIS IS THE TYPICAL AMERICAN RIGHT WING ATTITUDE THATS RUINING THIS WORLD. Problem is, no one in the USA can remember past the birth of McDonnalds.
Isreal was just a land grab. All the land was stolen of other countries. Ok they have a right because of religous books tell them they came from there. BUT HELLO not everyone is Jewish. The USA would allow a load of Islamic settlers to claim Florida because the Karan says its a holy area. You didnt let the british do it, hence 4th July...... look at the big picture folks and stop the double standards. From being in the USA a load of times I realised that I see more news about american policies and what is really going on with america and I live in Ireland. The media spoon feeds the people what the government wants to hear. The truth is that the money in america is controlled by Jews and the government has to do whatever to keep these ppl happy, even if that meens supporting a terrorist state at any cost.
Iran is an Idolical state. They are very advanced and shock horror, women work and go to university and dont have to cover themselves up. Iran like every other state is worried about the impending energy crisis and why the hell wouldnt it enrich urenium? It has to be enriched to 85% to make a bomb, they have it enriched to 0.3%, enough to make power. Who the hell does the USA, the only country to invent and use a nuke in a time of war think it is dictating to. Its a smoke screen in my opinion, to, like Iraq, gain control of one of the last reserves of crude oil. At least the Iranian president was elected by his people, not like BUSH who rigged the election. If that election rig happened in Europe the people would uprise (see the Orange revolution last year) and make the government change. In america, people sit back, its ok we will still have our lifestyle at the expence of the rest of the worlds stability. BUSH IS THE TERRORIST.!!!
Some little boy in Ireland is getting an F in history, unless he has a Nazi for a teacher. 

That'll do pig; That'll do.....
ive traveled the world dipshit. I suspect You like 95% of americans havent been out of your own country except to go to war. If you cant take part in a serious debate with or without humor, go back to the chatter section and talk about sigs or the colour of tea.
2006-04-20 06:42:52
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6651|United States of America
ive traveled the world dipshit. I suspect You like 95% of americans havent been out of your own country except to go to war. If you cant take part in a serious debate with or without humor, go back to the chatter section and talk about sigs or the colour of tea.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 there never was a Palestinian state.
#2 Jews, Muslims, and Christians all lived in that region(not region, it was not a country by any means)
#3 England had more to do with the Jews creating a state there than any other country.
#4 Why aren't Christians blowing up themselves to kill Jews and liberate Israel?
#5 Virtually every Muslim group in the Middle East has stated publicly that they want Israel wiped out. It is a religious thing not about land.
#6 I don't have to travel, we have people from all parts of the world in America. I have talked to at least 15 people from Iran/Iraq and they all say it has to do with religion and that Jews and Muslims will never live peacefully.  Look at the origins of the religions, the Jews claim to be the choosen ones. Muslims came from somebody screwing the hired help.
#7 You get an F in history and common sense.  Just look at the facts of what is going on in the Israel, what will make Hamas stop bombing them......... yep you got it, nothing.
2006-04-20 09:06:36
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|6774
I smell a radioactive middle east.
2006-04-20 09:41:57
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6834

Major_Spittle wrote:

ive traveled the world dipshit.
Nice language.

Major_Spittle wrote:

I suspect You like 95% of americans havent been out of your own country except to go to war.
Lucky for most, Americans will go to War.

Major_Spittle wrote:

If you cant take part in a serious debate with or without humor, go back to the chatter section and talk about sigs or the colour of tea.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 there never was a Palestinian state.
I believe Britain created Palestine. Just like they (  The UN Britain and USA ) created israel, I may be wrong.

Major_Spittle wrote:

#2 Jews, Muslims, and Christians all lived in that region(not region, it was not a country by any means)
Not sure what you meant to say?  (Note: Region)?.

Your right, those cultures had local tribes like  American Indians or Early Vikings.
They didn't call themselves a Nation. Trouble is, They knew where they lived though or rather, used to.

Major_Spittle wrote:

#3 England had more to do with the Jews creating a state there than any other country.
Noted..

Major_Spittle wrote:

#4 Why aren't Christians blowing up themselves to kill Jews and liberate Israel?
Because they are a small minority there and they aren't being exterminated.

Major_Spittle wrote:

#5 Virtually every Muslim group in the Middle East has stated publicly that they want Israel wiped out. It is a religious thing not about land.
Your wording is Suspect at best. I would be willing to bet they just want the Nation desolved like pre 1947, And the Northern Europeans who took power there to give that power to the Locals (people who always lived there). It  IS  about land, Ancient land that was in their familles for thousands of years. Religion is just a catalyst for them, It helps to unite them.  Its like saying Knights went on Crusades to serve God. I am sure two or three did. A lot of American jews backed israels creation for religious reasons.

Major_Spittle wrote:

#6 I don't have to travel, we have people from all parts of the world in America. I have talked to at least 15 people from Iran/Iraq and they all say it has to do with religion and that Jews and Muslims will never live peacefully.
Well, if you talked to 15 people. That pretty much wraps it up huh?

Major_Spittle wrote:

Look at the origins of the religions, the Jews claim to be the choosen ones. Muslims came from somebody screwing the hired help.
Warrants no response.

Major_Spittle wrote:

#7 You get an F in history and common sense.  Just look at the facts of what is going on in the Israel, what will make Hamas stop bombing them......... yep you got it, nothing.
If israel had not been created, There would be no Hamas, The jews are not leaving israel, nor am I suggesting that is the only solution. ( alas I am not a Palistinian ) But if they did leave, we all know it would stop on a Dime.

If Britain ( UN etc. ) had created a homeland for the jews in Madagascar,  ( it was  plan B ) Palastinians would not care about jews. Who ever had lived in Madagascar would be in a Rage instead.
If they (Palasinians ) had an Air Force, They wouldn't need suicide bombers. Its an act borne of desperation. The American Indian would have done the same thing had he had the means. A lot of different groups have resorted to that. Menacam Began [sp] (israels old PM ) said " a terrorist is a patriot without and Air Force" he would know, as he blew up a Few hotels himself before israel was given its Air Force.

Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-04-20 09:43:24)

2006-04-20 09:48:54
golgoj4
Member
+51|6771|North Hollywood

Daysniper wrote:

Can I add a new one?

Israel will be nuked off the map.
The US will retaliate with 250 (that's all of them) ICBM strikes at urban centers in Iran, ending with a full-scale invasion. The world will be plunged into a period of hatred and darkness comparable to the Medieval
period in Europe.
Thats all of them?

says the former Navy Missile Technician on SSBN's....

There are many possible outcomes, and not a lot of them good. I would say vote but that got us into this situation (how America voted for the guy that ran from the fight is beyond me) so the best i got is hope aliens show up and make us all get on the same side


oh yeah and dont get me started on china...yikes!

Last edited by golgoj4 (2006-04-20 09:54:25)

2006-04-20 09:50:32
ShotgunFacelift
Member
+1|6579|Toronto, Canadia..........Eh?
With no foreign aide pouring into Iran their basic services are shutting down. People are going hungry, getting sick and generally not having a good time.
As a result the general populace becomes more and more radical, as they have less and less to lose. And in their eyes every reason to blame the godless heathens in the west.

Eventually theyll nuke somebody, Israel, the US, or somewhere in Europe.......and then the US invades. Because thats what  the voters think they want, then theyll get stuck in another clusterfu*@ like Iraque. Except this time they'll be fighting the entire militant Muslim world.

It may even start WWIII, depending on who gets involved. Especially if China takes one side and the US takes the other.

Last edited by ShotgunFacelift (2006-04-20 09:51:51)

2006-04-20 09:52:53
WilhelmSissener
Banned
+557|6730|Oslo, Norway
threads like this one will be the outcome
2006-04-20 13:11:43
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6651|United States of America
Horseman 77-

#1 the first part of my message was a Quote from JahManRed that I was replying too. Look directly above it at the post.
#2 Yes you and I know there was no formal country in the region until Israel was formed and that it consisted of nomadic tribes in the desert that Lebanon, Syria, and none of the other Muslim countries in the middle east wanted then or still today; but JahManRed does not know that.
#3 Israel is not exterminating anyone in that region, if they wanted to they could though. In fact, Israel provides jobs for Muslims and until recently provided aide to Palestine.  Why would you even state that??? Seems kind of Nazi-ish.
#4 Yes I have talked to at least 15 people from that region, and yes it is religious.  If you haven't noticed most Islamic countries around Israel don't have non-Muslim populations that amount to anything.  Why you might ask, because if a Jew/Christian/anything other than Muslim lived in those countries they would live there with a different set of laws and rules. It would be very dangerous to say the least.  These Islamic governments, national and local, have laws designed to keep people out (ie infidels) and limit the indigenous population's exposure to other relegions and influence.  Duh....
#5 If you want to know why there is so much anomosity(sp) between Muslims toward Jews, talk to a Muslim from that area like I did.  I also just did a google search "why muslims hate jews" and low and behold the exact same thing that I was told by at least 6 different American Arabs came up.

The hostility between the Muslims and the Jews goes all the way back to Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (Genesis 16:1-16) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the promises to Abraham (Genesis 21:1-3),

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-Arabs.html

#6 Nothing personal Horseman77, I have completely agreed with a lot of your posts, but we are a bit off on this issue.  At least you have some facts unlike JahManRed who is obviously a victim of the Irish educational system.

Major_Spittle 1, Everyone who disagrees 0 

Last edited by Major_Spittle (2006-04-20 13:14:41)

2006-04-20 13:44:57
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6834

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

With no foreign aide pouring into Iran their basic services are shutting down. People are going hungry, getting sick and generally not                                                                                                                                                                                                           having a good time. as a result the general populace becomes more and more radical, as they have less and less to lose. And in their eyes every reason to blame the godless heathens in the west.
I think they blame israel. That's what they say at least. They know that is why we are aligned against them. Other than that we have no problem with them and we want  the "Arab Oil. "


ShotgunFacelift wrote:

Eventually theyl nuke somebody, Israel, the US, or somewhere in Europe.......and then the US invades.
Why should The US invade? If they as a Nation are against us, The USA can fight them as a Nation. This means we can fight them like we fought Japan and Germany.  Not house to house looking for individual Guerillas allegedly belong to a certain Group. Germany fought harder longer and Fanatics waged a Guerilla war after the hostilities formally ended. The only difference is Hollywood and the Liberal left didn't cheer them on. They would have been hung for it back then. the last Japanese soldier finally gave up in 1974.

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

Because thats what  the voters think they want,
As a voter, I can say " I know what I want." Perhaps you don't know what "you want " our only " thought " you wanted something. Most voters know what they want. If you are implying a sense of superiority or moral high ground it is misplaced. Speak for yourself only please.

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

then theyll get stuck in another clusterfu*@ like Iraque.
As all the Wars in history go, I am not sure I remember a smoother, faster, less costly one. What we are accomplishing there is worthy.
In the Past two years they went from

Fighting

to guerilla fighting

to Suicide bombing

to Leaving a bomb on the side of the road and hoping they hurt someone,.. Anyone.

The insurgents do not have the backing of the Iraqi people. Yes, the War would have been smaller and exponentially less costly if clinton had address the issue after WTC 93.  He had other thongs* on his mind. 20/20 hind sight.
     
     .
       

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

Except this time they'll be fighting the entire militant Muslim world.
We are fighting " the entire ( militant ) Muslim world, " 

ShotgunFacelift wrote:

It may even start WWIII, depending on who gets involved. Especially if China takes one side and the US takes the other.
I can see no reason for China to allying against The USA.

A third possibility is The USA says We owe israel nothing and no longer support them. Sorry for all past transgressions. Here is the billions and Billions per year in aid that we formally gave to israel for reasons unknown. It all Stops on dime. This will never happen.
2006-04-20 14:18:11
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6834

Major_Spittle wrote:

Horseman 77- #3 Israel is not exterminating anyone in that region,
To strong a word, Sorry.   But the Palestinian population has declined drastically so and most people agree its due to over crowding and the conditions that were forced upon them when israel was created and they lost  7/8 their of their land, almost all of the Coast line and sources of Fresh water. In an Area that is mostly desert,. this is important when you can no longer rely on fishing or irrigation techniques for food sources. This is what happened to the American Indian, They respondd in a similar fashion.

Major_Spittle wrote:

if they wanted to they could though.
What does this mean or imply?  with what F16s and Apache gunships ? " Why do the Arabs hate the USA ? " If we had armed the Arabs instead back in 1947 it would be the exact opposite situation.



Major_Spittle wrote:

Why would you even state that??? Seems kind of Nazi-ish.
Way way out of line. Is that the canned Fall back response when someone says Israel is To heavy handed " make some reference to the holocaust?


Major_Spittle wrote:

#4 Yes I have talked to at least 15 people from that region, and yes it is religious
Your opinion.


Major_Spittle wrote:

If you haven't noticed most Islamic countries around Israel don't have non-Muslim populations that amount to anything.
Yes, I have noted most Islamic Countries are Muslim. What are the chances of that!

Major_Spittle wrote:

#5 If you want to know why there is so much anomosity(sp) between Muslims toward Jews, talk to a Muslim from that area like I did.  I also just did a google search "why muslims hate jews" and low and behold the exact same thing that I was told by at least 6 different American Arabs came up
Yes you found what you went looking for, Imagine that. Try a google search without the Word " HATE " for starters
.
2006-04-20 14:30:53
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6628|949

here is a nice site to fuel the talk

EDIT: by nice I mean incredibly biased

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-04-20 15:47:44)

2006-04-20 19:13:17
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6651|United States of America

Horseman 77 wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Horseman 77- #3 Israel is not exterminating anyone in that region,
To strong a word, Sorry.   But the Palestinian population has declined drastically so and most people agree its due to over crowding and the conditions that were forced upon them when israel was created and they lost  7/8 their of their land, almost all of the Coast line and sources of Fresh water. In an Area that is mostly desert,. this is important when you can no longer rely on fishing or irrigation techniques for food sources. This is what happened to the American Indian, They respondd in a similar fashion.

Response: Israel built up the region, as they built it up more Arabs came to that region.  Many Many more Arabs in Palestine now than in 1945.  Israel also built up a lot of the Palestinian's infrastructure and provided aide to them.  Right now Israel has given back (I don't know the exact percentage) like 98% of everything Hamas has demanded.

Major_Spittle wrote:

if they wanted to they could though.
What does this mean or imply?  with what F16s and Apache gunships ? " Why do the Arabs hate the USA ? " If we had armed the Arabs instead back in 1947 it would be the exact opposite situation.

Response: Just what I said, If they wanted to exterminate them they would have by now....thus they aren't trying too.

Major_Spittle wrote:

Why would you even state that??? Seems kind of Nazi-ish.
Way way out of line. Is that the canned Fall back response when someone says Israel is To heavy handed " make some reference to the holocaust?

Response: When you intentionally make up lies about how Israel is "Exterminating" Palestinians I can hear your German accent.


Major_Spittle wrote:

#4 Yes I have talked to at least 15 people from that region, and yes it is religious
Your opinion.

Reply: Based on Their opinions and now articles stating that.


Major_Spittle wrote:

If you haven't noticed most Islamic countries around Israel don't have non-Muslim populations that amount to anything.
Yes, I have noted most Islamic Countries are Muslim. What are the chances of that!

Reply: You should move to Mecca and put the star of David on your door since you are so stupid you don't understand the significance of that point.  Then you can give me a stupid look when you are Beheaded by the government for subversion.  I bet you can find Jews, Asians, English, and European people of all religions everywhere on this planet in significant numbers..... except one region.  I can see it now, a family of Jews going on vacation in Iran.

Major_Spittle wrote:

#5 If you want to know why there is so much anomosity(sp) between Muslims toward Jews, talk to a Muslim from that area like I did.  I also just did a google search "why muslims hate jews" and low and behold the exact same thing that I was told by at least 6 different American Arabs came up
Yes you found what you went looking for, Imagine that. Try a google search without the Word " HATE " for starters
.
Reply:  If I did the search without the word hate it would be "Why muslims jews"????  That would have been a sucky search.

It is sad when a person can't distinguish evil when he sees it all the time, there are a significant number of Islamic fundamentalists in this world that are just plain evil and would like nothing more than to kill you and me because of our beliefs.
2006-04-20 19:18:12
jpost8391
Member
+7|6578|chantilly, va
hmmm Iran=smoking crater?
2006-04-21 04:19:00
JahManRed
wank
+646|6624|IRELAND

Major_Spittle
I dont really need to say anthing more. I think folks on this forum will see you for you for who you are after the last few posts. Educated by google, lol, very sad.

 

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