Poll

[Racism] On a scale of 1-5, how racist is Avatar?

1 (not at all; Gandhi, MLK and Care Bears)65%65% - 25
25%5% - 2
32%2% - 1
40%0% - 0
5 (max; co-directed by Leni Riefenstahl for Nazi Party)26%26% - 10
Total: 38
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7063|PNW

James Cameron is a bigot...or at least that's what some Avatar-slamming critics are hinting at.

First things out of the way: I thought Avatar was a fantastic film, and one I'll watch on numerous occasions. I'm not going to say it should be everyone's all-time favorite, but it, along with Star Trek, gave sci-fi a much-needed kick in the ass. So hopefully, we won't see an end to high-budget space flicks any time soon.

Now see, I saw the the wheelchair-bound main character and I thought 'Marine guy.' These people saw him and thought 'white guy.' I heard the villain snarl about race betrayal and saw it as the main character and his human and non-human buddies turning against the popular human corporate faction in a dramatic series of confrontations and skirmishes. These people saw it as one white guy bitching at another white guy about betraying white guys to blue guys. I mean, really...where does it end? This article and its source material are pocked with way more 'racial tension' than Avatar was.

Does anybody else agree with me, or do you see the film as being a glorified great white hope race fest as well?

"Maybe there is something he does want to say and put across" about race, Bogle said. "Maybe if he had a black hero in there, that point would have been even stronger."
Maybe black people are so rich in the future that they don't need to work on a hell world. Ever thought about that? What about the Asians? No wait, I just realized that Avatar doesn't have a single Muslim, that intolerant movie. Good lord, I rest my case.

Sourced from: http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap. … -avatar-ap

Jesse Washington wrote:

Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar' (AP)

- Near the end of the hit film "Avatar," the villain snarls at the hero, "How does it feel to betray your own race?" Both men are white — although the hero is inhabiting a blue-skinned, 9-foot-tall, long-tailed alien.

Strange as it may seem for a film that pits greedy, immoral humans against noble denizens of a faraway moon, "Avatar" is being criticized by a small but vocal group of people who allege it contains racist themes — the white hero once again saving the primitive natives.

Since the film opened to widespread critical acclaim three weeks ago, hundreds of blog posts, newspaper articles, tweets and YouTube videos have said things such as the film is "a fantasy about race told from the point of view of white people" and that it reinforces "the white Messiah fable."

The film's writer and director, James Cameron, says the real theme is about respecting others' differences.

In the film (read no further if you don't want the plot spoiled for you) a white, paralyzed Marine, Jake Sully, is mentally linked to an alien's body and set loose on the planet Pandora. His mission: persuade the mystic, nature-loving Na'vi to make way for humans to mine their land for unobtanium, worth $20 million per kilo back home.

Like Kevin Costner in "Dances with Wolves" and Tom Cruise in "The Last Samurai" or as far back as Jimmy Stewart in the 1950 Western "Broken Arrow," Sully soon switches sides. He falls in love with the Na'vi princess and leads the bird-riding, bow-and-arrow-shooting aliens to victory over the white men's spaceships and mega-robots.

Adding to the racial dynamic is that the main Na'vi characters are played by actors of color, led by a Dominican, Zoe Saldana, as the princess. The film also is an obvious metaphor for how European settlers in America wiped out the Indians.

Robinne Lee, an actress in such recent films as "Seven Pounds" and "Hotel for Dogs," said that "Avatar" was "beautiful" and that she understood the economic logic of casting a white lead if most of the audience is white.

But she said the film, which so far has the second-highest worldwide box-office gross ever, still reminded her of Hollywood's "Pocahontas" story — "the Indian woman leads the white man into the wilderness, and he learns the way of the people and becomes the savior."

"It's really upsetting in many ways," said Lee, who is black with Jamaican and Chinese ancestry. "It would be nice if we could save ourselves."

Annalee Newitz, editor-in-chief of the sci-fi Web site io9.com , likened "Avatar" to the recent film "District 9," in which a white man accidentally becomes an alien and then helps save them, and 1984's "Dune," in which a white man becomes an alien Messiah.

"Main white characters realize that they are complicit in a system which is destroying aliens, AKA people of color ... (then) go beyond assimilation and become leaders of the people they once oppressed," she wrote.

"When will whites stop making these movies and start thinking about race in a new way?" wrote Newitz, who is white.

Black film professor and author Donald Bogle said he can understand why people would be troubled by "Avatar," although he praised it as a "stunning" work.

"A segment of the audience is carrying in the back of its head some sense of movie history," said Bogle, author of "Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies & Bucks: An Interpretive History of Blacks in American Films."

Bogle stopped short, however, of calling the movie racist.

"It's a film with still a certain kind of distortion," he said. "It's a movie that hasn't yet freed itself of old Hollywood traditions, old formulas."

Writer/director Cameron, who is white, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that his film "asks us to open our eyes and truly see others, respecting them even though they are different, in the hope that we may find a way to prevent conflict and live more harmoniously on this world. I hardly think that is a racist message."

There are many ways to interpret the art that is "Avatar."

What does it mean that in the final, sequel-begging scene, Sully abandons his human body and transforms into one of the Na'vi for good? Is Saldana's Na'vi character the real heroine because she, not Sully, kills the arch-villain? Does it matter that many conservatives are riled by what they call liberal environmental and anti-military messages?

Is Cameron actually exposing the historical evils of white colonizers? Does the existence of an alien species expose the reality that all humans are actually one race?

"Can't people just enjoy movies any more?" a person named Michelle posted on the Web site for Essence, the magazine for black women, which had 371 comments on a story debating the issue.

Although the "Avatar" debate springs from Hollywood's historical difficulties with race, Will Smith recently saved the planet in "I Am Legend," and Denzel Washington appears ready to do the same in the forthcoming "Book of Eli."

Bogle, the film historian, said that he was glad Cameron made the film and that it made people think about race.

"Maybe there is something he does want to say and put across" about race, Bogle said. "Maybe if he had a black hero in there, that point would have been even stronger."
Waiting for 'Avatar 2: The Blue Peril'...

[edited for a hyphen]

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2010-01-11 23:48:09)

ruisleipa
Member
+149|6513|teh FIN-land
oh ffs enough with the fake racist bullshit.

I didn't even vote cos it's such a dumb question (no offence to the OP).

Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-01-12 00:04:06)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX
Thought it was anti-racist TBH.
Fuck Israel
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6872|the dank(super) side of Oregon
this is why every movie should star Will Smith.   He's black.
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7071|Great Brown North

krazed wrote:

people are fucking stupid
tbh
=NHB=Shadow
hi
+322|6657|California
needs more samuel l jackson tbh
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6581|Éire
Meh... 'Australia' by Baz Luhrmann was more insulting and racist from what I've heard. Avatar was a bit of craic with giant smurfs. Yes, it covered the exact same territory as Dances With Wolves, and yes, it has the white guy saving the indigenous tribe, but I would argue that this is only because it would have been too hard for a mainstream audience to fully 'connect' with a full alien lead character. The aliens come off looking a million times better than the humans in that film.

The people complaining about this film would be better off spending their energies on the very real problem of Islamophobia, which appears to be getting as bad in this generation as anti-semitism was in the last.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6956|NT, like Mick Dundee

Oh for fucks sake.


He was cast because he comes across as an ordinary bloke, not a jackass. Something few actors pull off well. Not to back up some white supremacist agenda. wtf
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7101|Nårvei

If at all anything even close to resembling race issues in this movie it is what a die hard capitalistic douchebag the "white race" is in comparison to others ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX

Braddock wrote:

Meh... 'Australia' by Baz Luhrmann was more insulting and racist from what I've heard.
You need to watch a film to be able to comment.
The people complaining about this film would be better off spending their energies on the very real problem of Islamophobia, which appears to be getting as bad in this generation as anti-semitism was in the last.
Um did you not see Avatar either?
Fuck Israel
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6513|Brisneyland

Braddock wrote:

'Australia' by Baz Luhrmann was more insulting and racist from what I've heard
I though that Baz Lurhman did his best to portray Aborigines in a very good light. Wouldnt call it racist. I didnt think Avatar was racist either.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6581|Éire

Dilbert_X wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Meh... 'Australia' by Baz Luhrmann was more insulting and racist from what I've heard.
You need to watch a film to be able to comment.
The people complaining about this film would be better off spending their energies on the very real problem of Islamophobia, which appears to be getting as bad in this generation as anti-semitism was in the last.
Um did you not see Avatar either?
I have no intentions of watching a film that looks as shit as 'Australia', especially when it's directed by Baz Luhrmann (a man who couldn't direct piss into a bathtub). I made the point because I saw a review and discussion of the movie on an arts show and it looked fairly insulting from what I could make out, as was pointed out by the critics on the show.

I saw Avatar, what's your point?

Last edited by Braddock (2010-01-12 02:50:08)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX

Braddock wrote:

I saw Avatar, what's your point?
Clearly the religion, martyrdom and daisycutter references in Avatar passed you by, as did the valuable natural resources under their feet.
I have no intentions of watching a film that looks as shit as 'Australia',
Then you make an ass of yourself if you say its insulting and racist, which it wasn't.
especially when it's directed by Baz Luhrmann (a man who couldn't direct piss into a bathtub)
Moulin Rouge was pretty good, Strictly Ballroom and Romeo and Juliet not bad either. Seems he hasn't done badly actually.
Fuck Israel
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6440|'straya
No it's not racist. People need to stop over analysing texts and pulling out tiny, insignificant pieces of corroborating evidence while ignoring the blatantly obvious.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6833|Texas - Bigger than France
I heard this film has become mandatory for those in the KKK
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6912|London, England
I heard that all the Marines/Humans portrayed in this film are white, is that true? Haven't seen this film, but if it is, then it really does lend to the fact that this film is basically preaching about all the Native American stuff etc etc..
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5649|London, England
Film was just anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, pro-hippie environmentalists dancing in the forest and worshiping the Earth Mother If there was any film promoting the green religion, this was it.


No racism.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6514|Escea

Mekstizzle wrote:

I heard that all the Marines/Humans portrayed in this film are white, is that true? Haven't seen this film, but if it is, then it really does lend to the fact that this film is basically preaching about all the Native American stuff etc etc..
It has whatsherface, Michelle Rodriguez in it.

Its complete bullshit these days, everything's racist, unless its done by a black guy against a white guy in a movie, then its not.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7007

M.O.A.B wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

I heard that all the Marines/Humans portrayed in this film are white, is that true? Haven't seen this film, but if it is, then it really does lend to the fact that this film is basically preaching about all the Native American stuff etc etc..
It has whatsherface, Michelle Rodriguez in it.

Its complete bullshit these days, everything's racist, unless its done by a black guy against a white guy in a movie, then its not.
African American you KKK Hitler saluting piece of whiskey tango shit.


<3
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5765|Ventura, California

krazed wrote:

krazed wrote:

people are fucking stupid
tbh
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6859|Mountains of NC

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Braddock
Agitator
+916|6581|Éire

Dilbert_X wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I saw Avatar, what's your point?
Clearly the religion, martyrdom and daisycutter references in Avatar passed you by, as did the valuable natural resources under their feet.
I have no intentions of watching a film that looks as shit as 'Australia',
Then you make an ass of yourself if you say its insulting and racist, which it wasn't.
especially when it's directed by Baz Luhrmann (a man who couldn't direct piss into a bathtub)
Moulin Rouge was pretty good, Strictly Ballroom and Romeo and Juliet not bad either. Seems he hasn't done badly actually.
Taste in film is always a subjective issue... I can't stand any of Baz Luhrmann's films, sorry Dilbert but that's just how it is. He sucks cock when it comes to making films (and probably in his personal life too judging by the types of films he makes).

James Cameron has never been the king of subtlety, he was making allegorical sci-fi's before half the people on this forum were out of nappies. It's obvious that Pandora is Iraq and "unobtainium" (lol) is oil, it's also obvious that he's having a go at environmentally unfriendly industrial practices. What I'm saying is I just don't care about the supposed 'racist' undercurrent of the film, if a 12ft tall blue alien asks me to sign a petition against the film some day then I may reconsider my position, until then I'll keeping on focusing my attention on real-life issues.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6285|Truthistan
The movie pushes a lot of buttons.

The "white hero" to the rescue criticism is somewhat valid, but its more of a critique about Hollywood in general, as in "when are they going to stop making these type of films." And we only hear that because this film is so successful.

Other criticism, like putting marines in a bad light is BS... if you scratch a little deeper, what you've got is a thinly veiled criticism of private armies like black water doing dirty wet work for giant corporations. These aren't marines fighting for freedom, these are Mercs and the MO is murder for profit without the involvement of governmental constraints. The only constraints are profit and corporate image.

Another criticism in the film is when the head merc says "and they believe its their deity" to which the crowd of mercs are heard laughing sarcastically. You dehumanize  your enemy,  you demonize them and destroy them. Pretty potent criticism and highlights the engrained negative attitudes and violent tendencies towards other religious beliefs, especially when there is profit to be made.

And then there is the whole parallel between Sioux victory at the little bighorn and the head merc being Custer. The Chief Alien even looks Indian and the voice over is an Indian actor Wes Studi. And for historical reference the fight against the Sioux was to secure the gold deposits in the Black hills/ devils tower area. The parallel with the movie is obvious and highlights Indigenous rights and questions of property ownership and theft.

The movie has lots of layers, and it pushes a lot of buttons. I wouldn't stop at the white hero stuff. To me it accurately portrays the attitudes of the religious right and the worst that humanity has to offer. And its nice to see those attitudes take a shit kicking.

But of course the entire movie is idealized with a pro-environmental theme where the protagonists are pure and good and the anatgonists are purely evil and stupid... in otherwords it Hollywood. Go see it in 3D, its worth it. 2 hours and 40 minutes and you won't notice the time go by. But if you're a religous right Merc whose hero is custer, you'd be better off rewatching blackhawk down or some John Wayne the Indian ass kicker.
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6869|Columbus, OH
If gabrielle union was in the film as michelle rodriguez co-pilot and they were flying in a tight white tank top shirt drenched in their sweat, I wouldn't cry foul.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6956|NT, like Mick Dundee

Mekstizzle wrote:

I heard that all the Marines/Humans portrayed in this film are white, is that true? Haven't seen this film, but if it is, then it really does lend to the fact that this film is basically preaching about all the Native American stuff etc etc..
Only the main ones. Plenty of people get screen time in the background, with a variety of skin colours.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

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