Pages: 1 2

 

2010-01-08 15:21:54
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

Immigration rights advocates are making a push for long-stalled legislation that would qualify undocumented immigrants for the same lower tuition rates New Jersey residents pay at state colleges and universities.

Advocacy and faith-based groups organized roughly 100 of their members at the Statehouse today to lobby lawmakers to pass the bill Gov. Jon Corzine leaves office next month.
http://www.alipac.us/article4769.html
So how would it be beneficial to the state if we had a bunch of illegals who can barely speak English go to our schools for less money while bringing down the quality of education for all the legal Americans?
2010-01-08 15:23:27
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

It wouldn't.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-01-08 15:24:34
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

FEOS wrote:

It wouldn't.
So the issue is one of those "it's the compassionate thing to do!" type things?
2010-01-08 15:25:20
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5550|foggy bottom
macbeth, your puerto rican ass is just as mexican as the next illegal
Tu Stultus Es
2010-01-08 15:27:07
Karbin
Member
+42|6585
So wrong
2010-01-08 15:36:23
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It wouldn't.
So the issue is one of those "it's the compassionate thing to do!" type things?
No. The issue is it's one of those "it's the stupid thing to do!" type things.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-01-08 15:39:33
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5550|foggy bottom
lets be real right here.

lets look at the options.  Chances are, college aged illegals are here not by choice but because their parents brought them here as children. We realize mass deportations is a no go.  Thatll be like china calling its debt on the US.  So, instead of funding illegal immigrants that are trying to improve their lives through education, we keep the doors closed and let them damage society in other ways
Tu Stultus Es
2010-01-08 15:40:06
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6776
Not that I support this or anything, but how would Mexicans bring down the quality of education for legal Americans?
2010-01-08 15:40:20
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,983|6923|949

Macbeth wrote:

Immigration rights advocates are making a push for long-stalled legislation that would qualify undocumented immigrants for the same lower tuition rates New Jersey residents pay at state colleges and universities.

Advocacy and faith-based groups organized roughly 100 of their members at the Statehouse today to lobby lawmakers to pass the bill Gov. Jon Corzine leaves office next month.
http://www.alipac.us/article4769.html
So how would it be beneficial to the state if we had a bunch of illegals who can barely speak English go to our schools for less money while bringing down the quality of education for all the legal Americans?
How does it bring down the quality of education?  How do you know the immigrants barely speak English?  It could be argued that it would be beneficial for the state because they would continue to work and live in your state, paying taxes into the system - just like other residents of New Jersey who get lower tuition.

I'm still trying to figure out if your blatant discrimination is an act or you really are an idiot.
2010-01-08 15:41:09
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5550|foggy bottom

Wreckognize wrote:

Not that I support this or anything, but how would Mexicans bring down the quality of education for legal Americans?
well, Im arguing for the pro but that does hold weight.  Increased class enrollments for shrinking class sizes.  people not being able to graduate on time because they cant get enrolled in the classes they need.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-01-08 15:47:05
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

eleven bravo wrote:

macbeth, your puerto rican ass is just as mexican as the next illegal
Totally made it about race pretty quick.
2010-01-08 15:53:21
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

eleven bravo wrote:

lets be real right here.

lets look at the options.  Chances are, college aged illegals are here not by choice but because their parents brought them here as children. We realize mass deportations is a no go.  Thatll be like china calling its debt on the US.  So, instead of funding illegal immigrants that are trying to improve their lives through education, we keep the doors closed and let them damage society in other ways
OK. That's a view that certainly has merit. So why not just not charge out of state tuition for anyone, then?

I suppose if the undocumented people can show they are paying state and local taxes, there's no issue. If they can't, they should pay out of state tuition rates, as that is the supposed rationale for the differential. Otherwise, charge a single rate for everyone.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-01-08 16:46:54
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7007

eleven bravo wrote:

macbeth, your puerto rican ass is just as mexican as the next illegal
Except Puerto Rico is a US protectorate.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-01-08 20:03:56
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7007
I would be interested to see how many illegal aliens that would take advantage of this?
Not being disrespectful... just wondering?
Love is the answer
2010-01-08 21:46:08
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

eleven bravo wrote:

We realize mass deportations is a no go.
...not necessarily...  Annexation of certain areas isn't out of the question either.

A lot of what we can justify doing is highly dependent on what becomes of Mexico.  If things get worse between their government and the drug cartels, we may have to occupy certain areas and take care of the problems on our own terms.

I'm not usually one to support intervention, but this is the sort of war I could actually support.

What goes on in Afghanistan has much less of a bearing on our lives than what happens right next door, as seen by the growing influence of MS-13 in places like Phoenix.
2010-01-09 00:07:41
Benzin
Member
+576|6289
I think the fact that there are different tuitions for in-state and out-of-state students is an absolute joke. In-state might be $1000 a semester where as out-of-state is $5000 (or more!). What kind of justification is that?

As far as the illegal aliens, no. If they can prove that they meet the requirements for in-state residents, however, then fine. But just any illegal? I'm sorry, but no.
2010-01-09 08:37:05
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

CapnNismo wrote:

I think the fact that there are different tuitions for in-state and out-of-state students is an absolute joke. In-state might be $1000 a semester where as out-of-state is $5000 (or more!). What kind of justification is that?
Supposedly because in-state families pay state taxes that go towards the state university system whereas out-of-state families don't.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-01-09 21:03:34
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5993|College Park, MD
Legal residents should get first dibs, but I don't see the problem with them paying for and getting education. Part of what breeds crime is ignorance... going to college and being marketable to get a good paying job sure helps prevent crime.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2010-01-09 21:23:50
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6444|what

Macbeth wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

macbeth, your puerto rican ass is just as mexican as the next illegal
Totally made it about race pretty quick.
Yes, you did Macbeth.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2010-01-10 10:27:04
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5649|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Immigration rights advocates are making a push for long-stalled legislation that would qualify undocumented immigrants for the same lower tuition rates New Jersey residents pay at state colleges and universities.

Advocacy and faith-based groups organized roughly 100 of their members at the Statehouse today to lobby lawmakers to pass the bill Gov. Jon Corzine leaves office next month.
http://www.alipac.us/article4769.html
So how would it be beneficial to the state if we had a bunch of illegals who can barely speak English go to our schools for less money while bringing down the quality of education for all the legal Americans?
How does it bring down the quality of education?  How do you know the immigrants barely speak English?  It could be argued that it would be beneficial for the state because they would continue to work and live in your state, paying taxes into the system - just like other residents of New Jersey who get lower tuition.

I'm still trying to figure out if your blatant discrimination is an act or you really are an idiot.
Hey, we agree on something! It's not like the standards of entry into college would suddenly be lowered just because more people become eligible. Heck, I'd venture to say that with an increasing of the pool from which the colleges choose their students, standards will rise.

It's not like public grade school where they are forced to take all comers. College is different Macbeth.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-10 11:00:45
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


http://www.alipac.us/article4769.html
So how would it be beneficial to the state if we had a bunch of illegals who can barely speak English go to our schools for less money while bringing down the quality of education for all the legal Americans?
How does it bring down the quality of education?  How do you know the immigrants barely speak English?  It could be argued that it would be beneficial for the state because they would continue to work and live in your state, paying taxes into the system - just like other residents of New Jersey who get lower tuition.

I'm still trying to figure out if your blatant discrimination is an act or you really are an idiot.
Hey, we agree on something! It's not like the standards of entry into college would suddenly be lowered just because more people become eligible. Heck, I'd venture to say that with an increasing of the pool from which the colleges choose their students, standards will rise.

It's not like public grade school where they are forced to take all comers. College is different Macbeth.
Good point, but I don't think the issue is standards.  The issue is the fact that until a viable system is in place to ensure illegals are paying taxes, there is a net loss of investment to local taxpayers if illegals are allowed to pay in-state tuition rates.

In short, it would be far more practical to first implement a way to grant illegals citizenship before giving them in-state tuition eligibility.  If you do the tuition thing first, it's a slap in the face to both taxpayers and to legal immigrants that haven't established residency yet.
2010-01-10 11:06:49
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5649|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:


How does it bring down the quality of education?  How do you know the immigrants barely speak English?  It could be argued that it would be beneficial for the state because they would continue to work and live in your state, paying taxes into the system - just like other residents of New Jersey who get lower tuition.

I'm still trying to figure out if your blatant discrimination is an act or you really are an idiot.
Hey, we agree on something! It's not like the standards of entry into college would suddenly be lowered just because more people become eligible. Heck, I'd venture to say that with an increasing of the pool from which the colleges choose their students, standards will rise.

It's not like public grade school where they are forced to take all comers. College is different Macbeth.
Good point, but I don't think the issue is standards.  The issue is the fact that until a viable system is in place to ensure illegals are paying taxes, there is a net loss of investment to local taxpayers if illegals are allowed to pay in-state tuition rates.

In short, it would be far more practical to first implement a way to grant illegals citizenship before giving them in-state tuition eligibility.  If you do the tuition thing first, it's a slap in the face to both taxpayers and to legal immigrants that haven't established residency yet.
How many legal citizens work off the books? Heck, I'd venture a guess that most of the people that bitch about illegals taking their jobs don't pay taxes on their income. They do pay sales tax and property tax (via rent) so I fail to see what the big deal is.

Abolish income taxes I say. Property and sales taxes only.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-10 11:10:48
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

How many legal citizens work off the books? Heck, I'd venture a guess that most of the people that bitch about illegals taking their jobs don't pay taxes on their income. They do pay sales tax and property tax (via rent) so I fail to see what the big deal is.

Abolish income taxes I say. Property and sales taxes only.
You make a good point with people that work off the books.

The big deal is 2-fold, however.

1) National security: if you can't get a handle on illegal immigration, you essentially have a massive vulnerability to terrorism and smuggling of all kinds.  In addition to this, you have uncontrollable growth in the underclass, which overburdens social systems, infrastructure, law enforcement, disease control, and wage depression.

2) You set a precedent of no incentive for legal immigration.  What point is there in following our citizenship laws if all you have to do is sneak in?  Naturalization becomes pointless in most respects.
2010-01-10 11:17:16
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5649|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

How many legal citizens work off the books? Heck, I'd venture a guess that most of the people that bitch about illegals taking their jobs don't pay taxes on their income. They do pay sales tax and property tax (via rent) so I fail to see what the big deal is.

Abolish income taxes I say. Property and sales taxes only.
You make a good point with people that work off the books.

The big deal is 2-fold, however.

1) National security: if you can't get a handle on illegal immigration, you essentially have a massive vulnerability to terrorism and smuggling of all kinds.  In addition to this, you have uncontrollable growth in the underclass, which overburdens social systems, infrastructure, law enforcement, disease control, and wage depression.

2) You set a precedent of no incentive for legal immigration.  What point is there in following our citizenship laws if all you have to do is sneak in?  Naturalization becomes pointless in most respects.
As was said previously, unless we're planning on deporting millions of people any law enacted will be viewed as nothing more than a scofflaw (the same as our current immigration policies are). Face it, the children of illegals, the ones that are here legally, and those that have become naturalized over time are a huge voting bloc and only growing bigger. Do you really think a politician will put prudence before his own election concerns? Good luck with that.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-10 11:21:44
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6696|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

As was said previously, unless we're planning on deporting millions of people any law enacted will be viewed as nothing more than a scofflaw (the same as our current immigration policies are). Face it, the children of illegals, the ones that are here legally, and those that have become naturalized over time are a huge voting bloc and only growing bigger. Do you really think a politician will put prudence before his own election concerns? Good luck with that.
Oh, I'm not suggesting we will go the deportation route.  Quite the contrary, actually.  I totally agree that amnesty and these in-state for illegals policies will likely become more common.

What I was saying is that it is possible to do the deportation.  It can be done, and in the long run, it would be the best move.  Securing our borders is a good idea, but the problem is that the upfront costs are so high and the political collateral is so heavy that yes, no politician would bother supporting it.  That doesn't mean it's impossible to implement, however.  It also doesn't mean that it wouldn't work.

In all likelihood, this issue will become a moot point in about 20 to 30 years, when the underclass is so large that it will be difficult to call ourselves First World anymore.

 

Pages: 1 2

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard