In the long run they will westernise, but its going to take a good 50-100 years for the maniacs to die out.
In the meantime best not to annoy them.
In the meantime best not to annoy them.
Fuck Israel
You mean our cultures clash? Glad you agree, now why is it, our cultures clash in the ME, but that same combination of cultures fits like a glove in the west? and if you point out that clash in the ME you speak the truth, if you point out that clash in the west you are a racist. How does that work?Commie Killer wrote:
A large part of them wanting to fight us is because exactly that, we are exporting our culture which clashes directly with theirs.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, this is already working. It's just that a fanatical minority of Muslims wants to fight us.-Sh1fty- wrote:
I suggest we conquer them with our strong culture of Starbucks and McDonald's, then there will be world peace because everybody is too busy getting fat on Lattés and Big Macs
Last edited by lowing (2009-12-27 14:20:40)
Show where those groups did anything illegal in this country and you'll have a point.Dilbert_X wrote:
Hmmm, the Irish Freedom Committee and Noraid had no problems operating in the US, raising funds for bombs and weapons for terrorist groups.FEOS wrote:
Pretty sure the US government did no such thing.
Oh right, the Irish vote, sorry.
They were doing things right away...you just didn't bother to educate yourself on it. Didn't fit into your preconceived slice of Conspiracyville.Dilbert_X wrote:
Strange the US demanded instant action from the Taleban but Pakistan gets eight years leeway?FEOS wrote:
Don't know if you heard, but the Pakistani Army is currently kicking the living shit out of militants in Taliban areas. Hardly "living comfortably" by any definition.
It took them a long time to pretend they were doing anything.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Raising money and buying weapons for terrorists isn't illegal?FEOS wrote:
Show where those groups did anything illegal in this country and you'll have a point.
Strange also that Sinn Fein and other IRA members were allowed free travel to the US, no terrorist watch lists if you're Irish eh?
Just enough to keep the US happy, they let Bin Laden in didn't they?They were doing things right away...
Fuck Israel
See...that shows how little you understand objectives.Dilbert_X wrote:
I thought the objective was to catch Bin Laden, not so much destroy the Taliban.
The objective was to disrupt/destroy Al Qaeda's ability to attack the US (and its allies) and its (their) interests. Which has succeeded, in a strategic sense, fairly well. AQ's ability to attack US interests is limited to tactical engagements and (with a few early exceptions) largely unsuccessful attempts at spectacular attacks.
If we had focused solely on Bin Laden (rather than the network itself), we'd likely have suffered numerous other attacks.
Good thing you weren't in charge of that stuff, eh?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Please show where we are "exporting our culture" to them (implies some sort of force feeding of Western values). It's not happening. Any westernization is at their request/desire, not at the end of our guns, ffs.Commie Killer wrote:
A large part of them wanting to fight us is because exactly that, we are exporting our culture which clashes directly with theirs.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, this is already working. It's just that a fanatical minority of Muslims wants to fight us.-Sh1fty- wrote:
I suggest we conquer them with our strong culture of Starbucks and McDonald's, then there will be world peace because everybody is too busy getting fat on Lattés and Big Macs
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Are we talking about disrupting AQ and capturing Bin Laden or destroying the Taliban? They aren't the same.
Since 9/11 was almost exclusively planned, prepared and implemented in the US I don't really see how all the backslapping over Afghanistan is justified.
Duhbya did make Bin Laden number one objective, odd that the US has failed in that.
Since 9/11 was almost exclusively planned, prepared and implemented in the US I don't really see how all the backslapping over Afghanistan is justified.
Duhbya did make Bin Laden number one objective, odd that the US has failed in that.
Fuck Israel
Now you're exposing your utter lack of understanding of how 9/11 was actually planned, prepared, and implemented. You should probably stop posting on the topic now.Dilbert_X wrote:
Are we talking about disrupting AQ and capturing Bin Laden or destroying the Taliban? They aren't the same.
Since 9/11 was almost exclusively planned, prepared and implemented in the US I don't really see how all the backslapping over Afghanistan is justified.
Duhbya did make Bin Laden number one objective, odd that the US has failed in that.
When exactly did W make UBL the number one objective? Wasn't ever the number one objective in any planning I was ever a part of. Killing/capturing AQ leadership was/is always a nice secondary objective, however.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Tell me how OBL got away Dilbert. I'm interested in hearing your theory.Dilbert_X wrote:
Are we talking about disrupting AQ and capturing Bin Laden or destroying the Taliban? They aren't the same.
Since 9/11 was almost exclusively planned, prepared and implemented in the US I don't really see how all the backslapping over Afghanistan is justified.
Duhbya did make Bin Laden number one objective, odd that the US has failed in that.
If we hadn't destroyed the Taliban and attempted to make the country safe for a new regime there would have been no point in invading at all. The Taliban had to go so AQ wouldn't have a safe place in the world to train.Dilbert_X wrote:
Are we talking about disrupting AQ and capturing Bin Laden or destroying the Taliban? They aren't the same.
Since 9/11 was almost exclusively planned, prepared and implemented in the US I don't really see how all the backslapping over Afghanistan is justified.
Duhbya did make Bin Laden number one objective, odd that the US has failed in that.
Besides, didn't you receive those chain emails back in the nineties telling you how awful the Taliban was treating women etc? I know I did. The funny part is the emails were usually passed around by do-gooder liberals who felt that we should do something to change it. Now it's those do-gooder liberals who have forgotten the very emails they sent because apparently they hate war more than they hated the stonings of women for showing too much skin.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Stop it with the pesky fact-using.JohnG@lt wrote:
If we hadn't destroyed the Taliban and attempted to make the country safe for a new regime there would have been no point in invading at all. The Taliban had to go so AQ wouldn't have a safe place in the world to train.Dilbert_X wrote:
Are we talking about disrupting AQ and capturing Bin Laden or destroying the Taliban? They aren't the same.
Since 9/11 was almost exclusively planned, prepared and implemented in the US I don't really see how all the backslapping over Afghanistan is justified.
Duhbya did make Bin Laden number one objective, odd that the US has failed in that.
Besides, didn't you receive those chain emails back in the nineties telling you how awful the Taliban was treating women etc? I know I did. The funny part is the emails were usually passed around by do-gooder liberals who felt that we should do something to change it. Now it's those do-gooder liberals who have forgotten the very emails they sent because apparently they hate war more than they hated the stonings of women for showing too much skin.
It gets in the way of conspiracies.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."FEOS wrote:
When exactly did W make UBL the number one objective?
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01
You were obviously outside the loop on pretty much everything.Wasn't ever the number one objective in any planning I was ever a part of.
Covered in other threads, in summary he was shepherded into Pakistan.MOAB wrote:
Tell me how OBL got away Dilbert. I'm interested in hearing your theory.
Fuck Israel
Note the date. The plan for AQ hadn't even been built yet. Once it was realized that finding UBL was not important to taking down AQ, he stopped saying that.Dilbert_X wrote:
The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."FEOS wrote:
When exactly did W make UBL the number one objective?
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01
Not nearly as outside the loop as you are. See above.Dilbert_X wrote:
You were obviously outside the loop on pretty much everything.Wasn't ever the number one objective in any planning I was ever a part of.
A statement two days after the worst attack ever on American soil, absent the analysis of planning, and you think that an enduring, unwavering policy should be built on that? Again...thank God you are not in charge of anything more important than balancing your own bank account.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Tell me how.Dilbert_X wrote:
Covered in other threads, in summary he was shepherded into Pakistan.MOAB wrote:
Tell me how OBL got away Dilbert. I'm interested in hearing your theory.
hmmm no answer yet. Imagine that.lowing wrote:
You mean our cultures clash? Glad you agree, now why is it, our cultures clash in the ME, but that same combination of cultures fits like a glove in the west? and if you point out that clash in the ME you speak the truth, if you point out that clash in the west you are a racist. How does that work?Commie Killer wrote:
A large part of them wanting to fight us is because exactly that, we are exporting our culture which clashes directly with theirs.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, this is already working. It's just that a fanatical minority of Muslims wants to fight us.
Also notice no one wants to talk about Islam anymore after the links provided. Must be a littler tougher to argue against material than sources. I'll check back.
Last edited by lowing (2009-12-29 07:01:50)
You really don't keep up with current affairs do you?FEOS wrote:
Note the date. The plan for AQ hadn't even been built yet. Once it was realized that finding UBL was not important to taking down AQ, he stopped saying that.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=133167Dilbert_X wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8402138.stmGen McChrystal: Bin Laden is key to al-Qaeda defeat
McChrystal supports troop increase
The top US commander in Afghanistan has said al-Qaeda will not be defeated unless its leader, Osama Bin Laden, is captured or killed.
Testifying to US Congress, Gen Stanley McChrystal said Bin Laden had become an "iconic figure".
He said President Barack Obama's deployment of 30,000 extra troops to Afghanistan meant success was possible.
But he said the mission was "undeniably difficult" and the next 18 months would be crucial.
"I don't think that we can finally defeat al-Qaeda until he's captured or killed," said Gen McChrystal of Bin Laden.
"I believe he is an iconic figure at this point, whose survival emboldens al-Qaeda as a franchising organisation across the world," he said.
Who is outside the loop?
Seems your former President and the current guy in Afghanistan know whats going on, thank god you're not in charge eh
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-12-29 15:35:18)
Fuck Israel
To a degree... but the success of our products overseas shows that most of them actually like what we have to offer.Commie Killer wrote:
A large part of them wanting to fight us is because exactly that, we are exporting our culture which clashes directly with theirs.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, this is already working. It's just that a fanatical minority of Muslims wants to fight us.-Sh1fty- wrote:
I suggest we conquer them with our strong culture of Starbucks and McDonald's, then there will be world peace because everybody is too busy getting fat on Lattés and Big Macs
In short, this fanatical minority wants to control the lives of the rest of the Islamic World, and that is why we must eventually eliminate this group until they are too small and too weak to threaten us. However, the methods by which we have attempted to do this have somewhat backfired. We must put more effort toward engaging foreign governments and less towards bombing countries.
The fanatical minority will die out by themselves eventually, us attacking the entire moslem world will only delay that.
Fuck Israel
Actually, it would appear the "fanatical minority" has grown, not reduced in numbers. but please do not say a posture of ignoring them, appeasing them, or succombing to them in the name of peace is the answer. I am not in the mood for that non-sense tonight.Dilbert_X wrote:
The fanatical minority will die out by themselves eventually, us attacking the entire moslem world will only delay that.
Correct, unwavering support for Israel, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and threats against Iran are radicalising moslems.lowing wrote:
Actually, it would appear the "fanatical minority" has grown, not reduced in numbers.
Strange, you seem to be in the mood for nonsense most of the rest of the timeI am not in the mood for that non-sense tonight.
Fuck Israel
Exactly why do you hate Israel?Dilbert_X wrote:
Correct, unwavering support for Israel, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and threats against Iran are radicalising moslems.lowing wrote:
Actually, it would appear the "fanatical minority" has grown, not reduced in numbers.Strange, you seem to be in the mood for nonsense most of the rest of the timeI am not in the mood for that non-sense tonight.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
US policy is US policy, it is not to be dictated to by a fucked up religion. We shall stand by what we think is right, and not appease it.Dilbert_X wrote:
Correct, unwavering support for Israel, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and threats against Iran are radicalising moslems.lowing wrote:
Actually, it would appear the "fanatical minority" has grown, not reduced in numbers.Strange, you seem to be in the mood for nonsense most of the rest of the timeI am not in the mood for that non-sense tonight.
I think a better question would be "Why would anyone LIKE Israel?"JohnG@lt wrote:
Exactly why do you hate Israel?Dilbert_X wrote:
Correct, unwavering support for Israel, invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and threats against Iran are radicalising moslems.lowing wrote:
Actually, it would appear the "fanatical minority" has grown, not reduced in numbers.Strange, you seem to be in the mood for nonsense most of the rest of the timeI am not in the mood for that non-sense tonight.
Don't get me wrong... I don't like Palestinians either, but allying with Israel is about as useful to us as allying with Syria is. Then again, we are also allied with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia... two countries that are on the same level of fucked up as Israel is.
Don't blub when your policies blow up in your face if you're not prepared to think about them.lowing wrote:
US policy is US policy, it is not to be dictated to by a fucked up religion.
Exactly.Turquoise wrote:
I think a better question would be "Why would anyone LIKE Israel?"
Why didn't you guys back white South Africa? They were also racist loons in a foreign land surrounded by people who hated them.
Fuck Israel