Ummm start up money is probably the differance between the failing and suceeding small business.
No way. A good concept and outstanding business plan are the only thing that will make a business succeed. Sure, a rare few can brute force it with a lot of capital but 99 times out of 100 the starting capital means nothing.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Ummm start up money is probably the differance between the failing and suceeding small business.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
It requires skill, desire, and determination. And a solid business model, grounded in realistic risk assessments, realistic market analysis, and frugal financial management. oh, and a touch of luck helps too.JohnG@lt wrote:
To make a Peter Keating/Howard Roark comparison out of what I wrote is a bit silly. There are just very few extraordinary people that have the skill and desire to drive a business from conception through profitability.
Not silly at all.
Peter Keating's mentality is close to that of a mid-level drone in middle corporate circles.
Howard Roark's mentality is of an independent small business owner.
Perhaps I should've phrased it as Catherine Toohey and Dominique Francon, rather than Keating & Roark.
1/3rd make a profit, 1/3rd break even.JohnG@lt wrote:
Hell, you said it yourself, only 1/3rd of small businesses make a profit. Lending them more money will not change the paradigm. Especially because it will mean that lenders have so much excess money that they now take extra risks and start handing money to people who do not deserve it and will default. They learned absolutely nothing from the housing market crash. Nothing. Same mistakes repeated over and over again.
Even those that just break even, manage to pay their employees, pay their boss, pay taxes, and provide a product/service to the public.
Agree completely, as long as you add in determination, creativity, and a little luck.JohnG@lt wrote:
No way. A good concept and outstanding business plan are the only thing that will make a business succeed. Sure, a rare few can brute force it with a lot of capital but 99 times out of 100 the starting capital means nothing.
The only thing that more money does for a bad startup (bad in plan, or bad in owners), is to encourage fiscal irresponsibility.
A good startup, given an influx of money, will still continue to look at it as, [i]"Every cent I spend, I have to earn back through the business.. plus interest".
Right, and banks will willingly lend to a winning plan. Even now with the credit crunch, if they see that a business has a good chance to succeed the loans will be made. Throwing more money into the system like Obama wants to do will not help the people with a solid plan, those people are already getting loans, no, it will mean people who aren't really worthy of loans will receive them. Those second tier people who would have a hard time getting a loan, have a hard time getting a loan for a good reason. This is the exact same shit they pulled when they forced banks to hand out subprime loans because then they could say they were doing something to help improve the community. More people owning a home = progress. More people owning their own business = progress. The problem is that things generally are the way they are for a reason...rdx-fx wrote:
It requires skill, desire, and determination. And a solid business model, grounded in realistic risk assessments, realistic market analysis, and frugal financial management. oh, and a touch of luck helps too.JohnG@lt wrote:
To make a Peter Keating/Howard Roark comparison out of what I wrote is a bit silly. There are just very few extraordinary people that have the skill and desire to drive a business from conception through profitability.
Not silly at all.
Peter Keating's mentality is close to that of a mid-level drone in middle corporate circles.
Howard Roark's mentality is of an independent small business owner.
Perhaps I should've phrased it as Catherine Toohey and Dominique Francon, rather than Keating & Roark.1/3rd make a profit, 1/3rd break even.JohnG@lt wrote:
Hell, you said it yourself, only 1/3rd of small businesses make a profit. Lending them more money will not change the paradigm. Especially because it will mean that lenders have so much excess money that they now take extra risks and start handing money to people who do not deserve it and will default. They learned absolutely nothing from the housing market crash. Nothing. Same mistakes repeated over and over again.
Even those that just break even, manage to pay their employees, pay their boss, pay taxes, and provide a product/service to the public.Agree completely, as long as you add in determination, creativity, and a little luck.JohnG@lt wrote:
No way. A good concept and outstanding business plan are the only thing that will make a business succeed. Sure, a rare few can brute force it with a lot of capital but 99 times out of 100 the starting capital means nothing.
The only thing that more money does for a bad startup (bad in plan, or bad in owners), is to encourage fiscal irresponsibility.
A good startup, given an influx of money, will still continue to look at it as, [i]"Every cent I spend, I have to earn back through the business.. plus interest".
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Where are said banks like this?
Any business loan I've ever written was credit based, Really that was it, on existing bussiness. I don't know of a single bank that will lend money on a start up business now. Just saying..
I have a solid business plan with a knowledge of the market and really all I need is 1 million and I'll turn it into 1.5 million in a year..
also the spell check didn't work, I think my horrible spelling broke it
Any business loan I've ever written was credit based, Really that was it, on existing bussiness. I don't know of a single bank that will lend money on a start up business now. Just saying..
I have a solid business plan with a knowledge of the market and really all I need is 1 million and I'll turn it into 1.5 million in a year..
also the spell check didn't work, I think my horrible spelling broke it
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2009-12-08 17:46:32)
Credit score is imperfect but it is a decent indicator of who is responsible and who isn't.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Where are said banks like this?
Any business loan I've ever written was credit based, Really that was it, on existing bussiness. I don't know of a single bank that will lend money on a start up business now. Just saying..
I have a solid business plan with a knowledge of the market and really all I need is 1 million and I'll turn it into 1.5 million in a year..
also the spell check didn't work, I think my horrible spelling broke it
Besides, not all capital comes from banks. There are venture capitalists out there looking to be a silent partner in any business with a solid plan. Maybe not this second, but they are who I personally would seek out rather than a bank loan.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-12-08 17:50:10)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Because Big Business (aka large groups of people working together) is such an evil thing.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
lol there's always a willing entrepreneur out there to lend a hand!JohnG@lt wrote:
Credit score is imperfect but it is a decent indicator of who is responsible and who isn't.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Where are said banks like this?
Any business loan I've ever written was credit based, Really that was it, on existing bussiness. I don't know of a single bank that will lend money on a start up business now. Just saying..
I have a solid business plan with a knowledge of the market and really all I need is 1 million and I'll turn it into 1.5 million in a year..
also the spell check didn't work, I think my horrible spelling broke it
Besides, not all capital comes from banks. There are venture capitalists out there looking to be a silent partner in any business with a solid plan. Maybe not this second, but they are who I personally would seek out rather than a bank loan.
SBA's are such a headache. Some Business loans are asking for at least 30% down... nuts.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Where are said banks like this?
Any business loan I've ever written was credit based, Really that was it, on existing bussiness. I don't know of a single bank that will lend money on a start up business now. Just saying..
I have a solid business plan with a knowledge of the market and really all I need is 1 million and I'll turn it into 1.5 million in a year..
also the spell check didn't work, I think my horrible spelling broke it
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Yeah a couple of years ago you could 50k with no questions ask.. As far as I know all those people went bankrupt..
They had really good starting interest rates, but jumped to 16% after a year..
They had really good starting interest rates, but jumped to 16% after a year..
Small businesses can't outsource, even if they fail, the money stays in the community
A year is not enough for a small biz imo. You know most small businesses don't turn a profit until long after that.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Yeah a couple of years ago you could 50k with no questions ask.. As far as I know all those people went bankrupt..
They had really good starting interest rates, but jumped to 16% after a year..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Big Business is as inefficient, if not more-so, than big Government.
Having lived in a town owned by a few multinational companies during my time there, I can assure you of that.
Having lived in a town owned by a few multinational companies during my time there, I can assure you of that.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
This, and small business can be MUCH more dynamic than big businesses - which in my experience are fat, bloated and slow.rdx-fx wrote:
"Most of them fail"JohnG@lt wrote:
Obama keeps talking about wanting to foster job growth and create jobs but why is he focussed on small businesses? Most of them fail, they're inefficient and they don't hire many employees. The success rate is ridiculously low.
No.
About 1/3rd fail, 1/3rd break even, and 1/3rd make a profit.
"they're inefficient"
No.
All of the small business owners I know are highly efficient. Never is an employee more than 2 steps from the Boss. No middle management, no layers of bureaucracy, no wasteful 'study groups', no department of redundancy department.
"they don't hire many employees"
No.
They employ over half the US workforce, generated over 64% of the new jobs over the last 15 years, and produce 13 times the number of patents as large firms.
http://www.sba.gov/advo/research/sb_econ2009.pdf
http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf
From practical experience, and from personally knowing quite a few small business owners, I can tell you a few things;
First, too many start up businesses are run by people with insufficient experience.
Second, too many people start businesses with no idea how much work is involved - and quit after a couple years of 20 hour days.
Third, a startup requires you to be all things for all people - sales, marketing, advertising, R&D, product development, manufacturing, tech support. When shit breaks, there is no supervisor to get help from - you're it (and you pay for it).
And, make sure you note the distinction between small business and start up business in your statistics. Big difference in terms.
They can get going on an opportunity and complete it before a large company has assigned someone to decide who should write the feasibility report.
Fuck Israel