A new take on charity!

2009-12-07 04:13:03

#1

Burwhale: Save the BlobFish!; +136|6513|Brisneyland

Just saw this today, and I am really impressed by their take on charity.

The idea is that instead of giving money to an organisation like Oxfam or similar, you get a list of entreprenuers from an undeveloped country. You can read a blurb on why they need some money, then you send some money in the form of a loan to help them start their business. Generally they have 6-12 months to pay back the loan.

A better description is on the website.

Kiva website wrote:
Kiva is the world's first person-to-person micro-lending website, empowering individuals to lend to unique entrepreneurs around the globe.

The people you see on Kiva's site are real individuals. When you browse entrepreneurs' profiles on Kiva, choose someone to lend to, and then make a loan, you are helping a real person make great strides towards economic independence and improve life for themselves, their family, and their community. Throughout the course of the loan (usually 6-12 months), you can receive email journal updates and track repayments. Then, when you get your loan money back, you can relend to someone else.

source

I guess what I like about this is that the money would be more likely to stimulate the business than a handout. Paying back the loan encourages good business practices. The money goes directly to the people that need it, rather than to other organisations that may need some money for admin/ or staff or whatever. Apparently 98% of loans get repaid, so its not risky. I dont think you need to contribute a heap of money to make a difference.

What do you think about this type of charity? (mods I dont want this to look like advertising, it seems to be a very good cause).

2009-12-07 04:16:25

#2

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX

Seems like a good idea, there are very few charities I would consider giving money to as so little reaches the target.

Shame is there is colossal potential for scams, Nigeria anyone?

Fuck Israel

2009-12-07 04:19:01

#3

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6940

That's actually a really cool idea. As Dilbert said though, what's to stop them keeping the money?

2009-12-07 04:20:10

#4

mcminty: Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.; +879|7012|Sydney, Australia

Kind of like microloans in developing countries. Interesting..

2009-12-07 04:22:48

#5

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX

Whats to stop the whole thing being taken over by scammers?

Fuck Israel

2009-12-07 04:25:06

#6

Burwhale: Save the BlobFish!; +136|6513|Brisneyland

ghettoperson wrote:
That's actually a really cool idea. As Dilbert said though, what's to stop them keeping the money?

Basically theres nothing stopping them keeping the money. But the stats show that most seem to pay it back. I did hear on tv that the reason it has worked so well so far is that Kiva prefers to loan to women, as they seem more reliable in paying the loans. Not sure how true that was though.

2009-12-07 04:28:17

#7

Burwhale: Save the BlobFish!; +136|6513|Brisneyland

Also I dont think its just a matter of sending money over. Apparently theres field agents that monitor repayments and collect the money. These people must determine if the entrprenuer is legitimate or not.

2009-12-07 06:53:25

#8

mafia996630: © 2009 Jeff Minard; +319|7054|d

I don't think that would constitute as giving charity.

2009-12-07 07:31:46

#9

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7007

mafia996630 wrote:
I don't think that would constitute as giving charity.

I see your point, but I think the money should be given, not loaned IMO if they want to it to write it off as charity. If the system is legit, I see no problems with it.

Africa is in dire need of major infrastructure build up...

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2009-12-07 07:44:26

#10

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5649|London, England

Cybargs wrote:
mafia996630 wrote:
I don't think that would constitute as giving charity.
I see your point, but I think the money should be given, not loaned IMO if they want to it to write it off as charity. If the system is legit, I see no problems with it.

Africa is in dire need of major infrastructure build up...

They have two hands and a brain. Nothing stopping them from building their own infrastructure except for the fact that they're more concerned with raping their women, murdering their neighbors and getting high. Free will is a bitch and when they learn to play nice with each other they might get stuff done.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-12-07 08:16:20

#11

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7007

JohnG@lt wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
mafia996630 wrote:
I don't think that would constitute as giving charity.
I see your point, but I think the money should be given, not loaned IMO if they want to it to write it off as charity. If the system is legit, I see no problems with it.

Africa is in dire need of major infrastructure build up...
They have two hands and a brain. Nothing stopping them from building their own infrastructure except for the fact that they're more concerned with raping their women, murdering their neighbors and getting high. Free will is a bitch and when they learn to play nice with each other they might get stuff done.

Its funny when the black government came in power in South Africa, it turned into more of a shithole. Rapes went up, car jackings went up and AIDS went up.

2009-12-07 16:37:40

#12

mafia996630: © 2009 Jeff Minard; +319|7054|d

Cybargs wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Cybargs wrote:

I see your point, but I think the money should be given, not loaned IMO if they want to it to write it off as charity. If the system is legit, I see no problems with it.

Africa is in dire need of major infrastructure build up...
They have two hands and a brain. Nothing stopping them from building their own infrastructure except for the fact that they're more concerned with raping their women, murdering their neighbors and getting high. Free will is a bitch and when they learn to play nice with each other they might get stuff done.
Its funny when the black government came in power in South Africa, it turned into more of a shithole. Rapes went up, car jackings went up and AIDS went up.

Now, now children. Lets not go jumping on the racism wagon too fast. You can't undermine the effect that poverty, many years of exploitation by other countries due to resources and etc etc.

2009-12-07 16:58:44

#13

mcminty: Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.; +879|7012|Sydney, Australia

JohnG@lt wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
mafia996630 wrote:
I don't think that would constitute as giving charity.
I see your point, but I think the money should be given, not loaned IMO if they want to it to write it off as charity. If the system is legit, I see no problems with it.

Africa is in dire need of major infrastructure build up...
They have two hands and a brain. Nothing stopping them from building their own infrastructure except for the fact that they're more concerned with raping their women, murdering their neighbors and getting high. Free will is a bitch and when they learn to play nice with each other they might get stuff done.

Lol..

Just.. lol..

2009-12-07 16:59:22

#14

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7007

mafia996630 wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

They have two hands and a brain. Nothing stopping them from building their own infrastructure except for the fact that they're more concerned with raping their women, murdering their neighbors and getting high. Free will is a bitch and when they learn to play nice with each other they might get stuff done.
Its funny when the black government came in power in South Africa, it turned into more of a shithole. Rapes went up, car jackings went up and AIDS went up.
Now, now children. Lets not go jumping on the racism wagon too fast. You can't undermine the effect that poverty, many years of exploitation by other countries due to resources and etc etc.

Explain South Africa. Asia seems to be doing fine after the white man left.

2009-12-07 17:07:46

#15

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,983|6923|949

Explain fucked up policies like work permits and virtual quarantines for the black minority and forced rudimentary societies ostracized from the general public of South Africa? More like explain why the "black government" was responsible for it "turning into more of a shithole". I'd say apartheid and living conditions reminiscent of the occupied territories in the MidEast is shittier than it is now.

OP - it's not necessarily a new take on charity so much as a new way to get micro loans administered. I like the idea of being able to track the progress of people you are financing. As for the people worried about some dude in a third world country stealing your $300, micro loans by-and-large work because without that money they don't progress as a family/tribe/city/society. There are numerous studies and plenty of data showing that micro loans are paid off at a pretty high rate, with the assumption that these people acknowledge that the continued influx of micro loans will offer long term benefits that outweigh the short-term benefits of simply taking the money and reneging on the loan.

2009-12-07 17:12:39

#16

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5649|London, England

mafia996630 wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
They have two hands and a brain. Nothing stopping them from building their own infrastructure except for the fact that they're more concerned with raping their women, murdering their neighbors and getting high. Free will is a bitch and when they learn to play nice with each other they might get stuff done.
Its funny when the black government came in power in South Africa, it turned into more of a shithole. Rapes went up, car jackings went up and AIDS went up.
Now, now children. Lets not go jumping on the racism wagon too fast. You can't undermine the effect that poverty, many years of exploitation by other countries due to resources and etc etc.

It's got nothing to do with race. I don't think black men are inferior to white men. I think trying to drag them kicking and screaming, away from what is or has been until very recently a very tribal culture, into the 21st century with paved roads, internet and Western style governments is asinine. They are trying to skip over all the intervening steps it took Europe two thousand years to get through and this is the result. Just one hundred years ago they were still having incessant tribal wars armed with nothing more than spears and shields. Come on now.

The same can be said for Native Americans that still cling to their past on tribal reservations, Amazonians still fishing in the same streams that their villages have fished for thousands of years, New Guineans that are still living deep in the bush and Aboriginees who are no where near being fully integrated. They're all anachronisms. Sure, some may have ipods but do you think that throwing money at the situation is going to bring them to the forefront of civilization? Quite the opposite, the more you throw at them, the more they become dependent and the less they learn to fend for themselves and find the strength within to make them great.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-12-07 17:14:31)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-12-07 17:26:11

#17

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7007

JohnG@lt wrote:
mafia996630 wrote:
Cybargs wrote:

Its funny when the black government came in power in South Africa, it turned into more of a shithole. Rapes went up, car jackings went up and AIDS went up.
Now, now children. Lets not go jumping on the racism wagon too fast. You can't undermine the effect that poverty, many years of exploitation by other countries due to resources and etc etc.
It's got nothing to do with race. I don't think black men are inferior to white men. I think trying to drag them kicking and screaming, away from what is or has been until very recently a very tribal culture, into the 21st century with paved roads, internet and Western style governments is asinine. They are trying to skip over all the intervening steps it took Europe two thousand years to get through and this is the result. Just one hundred years ago they were still having incessant tribal wars armed with nothing more than spears and shields. Come on now.

The same can be said for Native Americans that still cling to their past on tribal reservations, Amazonians still fishing in the same streams that their villages have fished for thousands of years, New Guineans that are still living deep in the bush and Aboriginees who are no where near being fully integrated. They're all anachronisms. Sure, some may have ipods but do you think that throwing money at the situation is going to bring them to the forefront of civilization? Quite the opposite, the more you throw at them, the more they become dependent and the less they learn to fend for themselves and find the strength within to make them great.

https://science.csumb.edu/~hkibak/200/img/GGS.jpg

This explains why.

2009-12-07 17:27:30

#18

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5649|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Explain fucked up policies like work permits and virtual quarantines for the black minority and forced rudimentary societies ostracized from the general public of South Africa? More like explain why the "black government" was responsible for it "turning into more of a shithole". I'd say apartheid and living conditions reminiscent of the occupied territories in the MidEast is shittier than it is now.

OP - it's not necessarily a new take on charity so much as a new way to get micro loans administered. I like the idea of being able to track the progress of people you are financing. As for the people worried about some dude in a third world country stealing your $300, micro loans by-and-large work because without that money they don't progress as a family/tribe/city/society. There are numerous studies and plenty of data showing that micro loans are paid off at a pretty high rate, with the assumption that these people acknowledge that the continued influx of micro loans will offer long term benefits that outweigh the short-term benefits of simply taking the money and reneging on the loan.

Ok, black rule in South Africa for the last twenty years now...

Explain this:

Lesbians in South Africa are being dragged off the street and raped in an effort to "correct" them, Sky News reports.

Sky News has found evidence of widespread abuse against the lesbian community — resulting in a new trend of so-called "corrective rape".

In the the township of Khayelitsha, on the outskirts of Cape Town, Sky spoke to a group of women who said they live in fear of their lives. All of them said they know someone who has been violently dragged off the streets and raped because they had come out as a lesbian.

Funeka Solidaat said she had been attacked on two occasions — and on the second time she was raped.

She said the men covered their faces with balaclavas and that she had been repeatedly threatened with rape in the township.

Funeka believed it was only a matter of time before it happened — and then it did.

But what shocked her even more, she said, was the attitude of the police. She was made to feel like "a laughing stock" when she reported the crime. Officers didn't bother to finish taking a statement from her, she said.

Funeka was part of a group of women Sky News met at a safe house in Khayelitsha township. As they talked, it became clear the so-called motive for the attack was to "correct" them.

Desire Dudu told Sky she had come out as a lesbian but, in her view, you risk your life in South African society if you make your sexuality clear.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- … 1315458416

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-12-07 17:27:51)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-12-07 17:41:55

#19

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,983|6923|949

They still perform magic rituals and stonings too. Why would the leaders of the last 20 years be to blame for that?

2009-12-07 17:51:27

#20

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5649|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
They still perform magic rituals and stonings too. Why would the leaders of the last 20 years be to blame for that?

You were blaming colonialism for the problems. I'm pointing out that it goes far deeper into their culture than anything white people might've done to them. Your acknowledgement of stonings and magic rituals furthers my point.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-12-07 22:01:16

#21

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6966|Canberra, AUS

Cybargs wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
mafia996630 wrote:

Now, now children. Lets not go jumping on the racism wagon too fast. You can't undermine the effect that poverty, many years of exploitation by other countries due to resources and etc etc.
It's got nothing to do with race. I don't think black men are inferior to white men. I think trying to drag them kicking and screaming, away from what is or has been until very recently a very tribal culture, into the 21st century with paved roads, internet and Western style governments is asinine. They are trying to skip over all the intervening steps it took Europe two thousand years to get through and this is the result. Just one hundred years ago they were still having incessant tribal wars armed with nothing more than spears and shields. Come on now.

The same can be said for Native Americans that still cling to their past on tribal reservations, Amazonians still fishing in the same streams that their villages have fished for thousands of years, New Guineans that are still living deep in the bush and Aboriginees who are no where near being fully integrated. They're all anachronisms. Sure, some may have ipods but do you think that throwing money at the situation is going to bring them to the forefront of civilization? Quite the opposite, the more you throw at them, the more they become dependent and the less they learn to fend for themselves and find the strength within to make them great.
http://science.csumb.edu/~hkibak/200/img/GGS.jpg

This explains why.

Can I just say that that guy is an absolute prick. I can't stand him.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-12-07 22:11:30

#22

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5649|London, England

Spark wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

It's got nothing to do with race. I don't think black men are inferior to white men. I think trying to drag them kicking and screaming, away from what is or has been until very recently a very tribal culture, into the 21st century with paved roads, internet and Western style governments is asinine. They are trying to skip over all the intervening steps it took Europe two thousand years to get through and this is the result. Just one hundred years ago they were still having incessant tribal wars armed with nothing more than spears and shields. Come on now.

The same can be said for Native Americans that still cling to their past on tribal reservations, Amazonians still fishing in the same streams that their villages have fished for thousands of years, New Guineans that are still living deep in the bush and Aboriginees who are no where near being fully integrated. They're all anachronisms. Sure, some may have ipods but do you think that throwing money at the situation is going to bring them to the forefront of civilization? Quite the opposite, the more you throw at them, the more they become dependent and the less they learn to fend for themselves and find the strength within to make them great.
http://science.csumb.edu/~hkibak/200/img/GGS.jpg

This explains why.
Can I just say that that guy is an absolute prick. I can't stand him.

Why?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-12-07 22:14:30

#23

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6966|Canberra, AUS

JohnG@lt wrote:
Spark wrote:
Cybargs wrote:

http://science.csumb.edu/~hkibak/200/img/GGS.jpg

This explains why.
Can I just say that that guy is an absolute prick. I can't stand him.
Why?

Well, it's mainly the documentary accompanying that books. He has this utterly up-himself air that grates with me for some reason. I don't know, I never liked him.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-12-07 22:21:07

#24

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5649|London, England

Spark wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Spark wrote:

Can I just say that that guy is an absolute prick. I can't stand him.
Why?
Well, it's mainly the documentary accompanying that books. He has this utterly up-himself air that grates with me for some reason. I don't know, I never liked him.

But you got to see boobs that had never seen a bra! j/k

Yes, he's not very articulate but he's a college professor. I'll take substance over style any day and he's got good arguments.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-12-07 22:33:51

#25

Smithereener: Member; +138|6607|California

Posted something about this org a couple years ago, but unfortunately made it look more like an advertisement than something interesting to share so needless to say, it died quickly. But just for a bit of precaution: this is not meant to be an advertisement.

One of the only things I felt my high school MUN did that was really of any value to me was this. We raised about 2k the first year we fundraised for it, then another ~2.1k the second year we did it. I think we're still fund raising for it every year now. It's true they loan more to women mostly because of the way the money is loaned; the money we "donate" is sent to Kiva that sends it to some small microfinancer in whatever region the person being loaned the money lives in. Most of these microfinancers tend to work for women empowerment in underdeveloped countries AFAIK.

And yeah, the potential for scamming is pretty significant, but like the stats say, it is paid back most of the time. With the initial 2k we had, we funded like, 7 or 8 different people from all around the world (yeh, the people on there aren't all from Africa), and got all the money back within the next year. I don't exactly know how much we were paid back the second year (graduated already), but I can probably assume most, if not all was paid back. It's a bit of a leap of faith tbh, but it all seems to work out for the most part.

I mean, going off of that whole Africa being a shithole thing; yeah, we don't always get the best news from Africa with the whole, poverty, rape, AIDS and whatnot coming into the media, but having experienced this whole Kiva thing is a nice change. It kind of gives me that slight glimmer of hope that is so lacking today.

Good stuff.

BF2S Forums A new take on charity!

Kiva website wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

Spark wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Spark wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Spark wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Spark wrote:

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