BF2S Forums another obama observation

Mekstizzle wrote:

You're making valid points about Islam, but in reality it's not always like that, if it was like that, then shit would have been crazy ever since Islam was invented. And it was quite some time I'll accept that, how else did it manage to take over half the known world. BUT. In reality, things haven't always been messed up between Islam and non-Muslims. That you can agree with. Otherwise there would have been a constant state of war if shit was as you'd say it is. And it clearly isn't.

I think what you're doing is refusing to see what the US has done and why it is mostly the US that is seeing alot of the stick from Islam. Yeah, they have their own issues too, but to act as if the US has done nothing and is an innocent victim being attacked upon by a vicious group of people who were unprovoked is bordering on absurd.

There hasn't always been this animosity between Muslims and the USA. Hell, you could argue that it only really started after 9/11. But even before that, shit only really started during the Cold War. But wait, shouldn't have they been attacking the US ever since its inception? Why have they suddenly started relatively recently? Why hasn't it always been the case?

You think I'm sitting here only blaming the US, the reality is you're the one that's seemingly refusing to see your own countries faults into why shit is as it is.

The US has spent billions of dollars on the ME, developing their oil and then BUYING it from them. NOT stealing it. The US and the other developed countries want oil, that oil is under the ground of the most unstable nations on earth. That instability is largely due to Islam. The US is constantly trying to keep the ME stable for the world. If you disagree with this, and think we are simply meddling, then stop using the oil you use every day. If you are going to bitch, then do not support it by using it.

This started because of Israel and our support of it. It has escalated because Islamic countries are achieving the means to do so. Before they did not have it.

These Islamic govts. are some of the richest in the world, yet they are also some of the most oppressive as well, and they use ISLAMIC LAW to enforce that oppression.


I do not blame the US, the US has tried to help the people of the ME. Iraq is now a free nation because of it, and through all of the bullshit, armchair quarterbacking, criticism, threats, unpopularity  and protests, the US refuses to abandon ( again) Iraq and will not leave until stability prevails.

US policy goes against Islamic Law and its oppression, that is what the problem is.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

So lowing, I don't suppose our ousting of the Shah in Iran has anything to do with why they don't like us.  Then when Iran isn't playing the game we want them to play, we help Saddam gain power and even supply weapons, then he goes rogue.  We were more concerned about the Soviets than Afghans, but we supplied training and weapons, and when the Soviets left, we just abandoned them.  That would have nothing to do with why the Taliban hates us.

You know goddamn good and well that we have stuck our noses into the business of other countries in ways that we would never tolerate happening to us.

Uhhh we didn't oust anyone, ( except Saddam) the Shah was exciled from his own country, the US took him in.

ALready said the US gets involved because it is vital the worlds oil supply stays flowing and is not taken hostage by some crazy regime. No denying that. If you do not like it, again, stop using the shit.

Yup it was Soviets that was deemed a greater threat, at that time. The enemy of our enemy is our friend, and it made sense for that time. Abandon them, make up your mind, are to meddle or aren't we?

Also take note, none of this has anythingt odo with Islam the culture or the religion. Regardless as t oUS policy, Islam is a violent and intolrant religion and culture, as it is taught written and practiced you can not blame the US for that. Especially since they are oppressive to each other as well.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

I misspoke.  What I meant was out ousting of their PM to put the shah in power.  At the time they had a secular government, and we helped have the PM removed and the US backed shah in power, dumping money and political clout into silencing dissenters of that move.

http://revcom.us/a/092/iran-pt3-en.html

So by your second paragraph I take it that you are now admitting that Iraq had nothing to do with WMDs or instilling democracy, this was just the bullshit we spewed to get Iraq's oil flowing freely into the oil market.

I admitted that a long time ago.

Iraq was about forcing compliance of UN sanctions. After 911 and the previous decade of Islamic attacks and failed diplomacy, the US was not going to sit back and let the status of Saddam's weapons programs to remain a mystery as he defied the resolutions that stopped the war in '91

And again, if you are against intervention to keep the worlds oil supply flowing, stop using it.

lowing wrote:

And again, if you are against intervention to keep the worlds oil supply flowing, stop using it.

bingo.  dont buy plastic or anything that requires lubrication.  good luck.

Well to be honest for quite a long time before Oil was found (and before Israel) the ME was quite stable so I wouldn't say it was totally Islam that made it unstable (mainly cos they managed to pretty much kick out or convert any large populations of other religions) so your point about the region being unstable because of Islam is actually kinda wrong. They managed to consolidate Islam over the region and then it became largely peaceful for quite some time cos everyone was a Muslim. Not saying that's a particularly good thing, just that it did end up making the region quite stable for some time. Certainly more stable than other parts of the world such as Europe (especially) and Asia.

Also I think alot of people will disagree with you that the US is simply trying to keep that place stable for the rest of the world and for them. lol that sounds like you've been fed so much bullshit propaganda that you actually believe that everything the US is doing is for the benefit of the world and everyone against you is simply evil and shit.

My opinion is you'll get peace/stability in that area once the Oil runs out. The only reason why there's so much support for Israel is because it's good to have an Ally in that region, mainly because of all the Oil stuff. Once the oil goes, Israel suddenly doesn't become that important either. Everything comes full circle. The USA abandons its military bases in Saudi Arabia and shit, suddenly it's not so much the Great Satan and all that shit, the crazies also lose alot of ammunition to attack the US with. Their arguments become even less valid. And overrall the Islamic threat should decrease mainly because the US/World wouldn't give a fuck about the region anymore.

And I'm all for not having to use oil from the ME for whatever use, mainly fuel. It ain't good to be reliant on those fuckers. Look at all the shit it causes for them and for us. It would be better if we didn't need them. They could then sort their own shit out whatever.

I wouldn't say for Islam, I'd say for that particular region, though. Christianity conquered all of Europe yet the continent was still always at war. So it doesn't always work like that.

I dunno what you mean in your second paragraph, I think they'd agree with you that the US only cares about the Oil. The US does only care about the oil, and it will do anything it can to ensure its safety. Hence all the meddling, and all the other shit. The secondary thing that then happens is, because the US is a mainly Christian country, is that it makes it even worse when it does all this shit. And yeah, that's when their faults come into play because the only reason they get that much more pissed off at the US is because the US is mainly Christian.

I'm not really bitching about having to use oil from the ME. You just think, shit could have been handled better by all sides so as to not cause so much unnecessary animosity. But then when both sides are as stubborn as each other you just have to wait for the Oil to run out before shit moves forward.

lowing wrote:

How, we R and D 'ed the oil, invented ways t oextract it and the means to get it to market as well as develop uses for it. All these Islamic nations had to do is sit back and rake in the money. ANd there is more we could have done to accomodate the ME? Don't think so.

It's largely about making enemies for no reason by doing stuff such as supporting Israel, initiating coups, supporting oppressive governments who don't help out the population, getting rid of governments who do try to nationalise things and help out the population, shit like that. All pretty much unnecessary. Not saying they also have their own problems, too, though.

And even if it is necessary to do shit like that, then you can't exactly blame them for acting the way they do. You're right, they didn't really do shit when it came to the Oil. Everything was given to them on a plate. But that still doesn't really mean that you could expect to then fuck them around and not expect any sort of retaliation.

You can give £10 to a Hobo but if you start a fight with him he'll still probably fight back.

Mekstizzle wrote:

lowing wrote:

How, we R and D 'ed the oil, invented ways t oextract it and the means to get it to market as well as develop uses for it. All these Islamic nations had to do is sit back and rake in the money. ANd there is more we could have done to accomodate the ME? Don't think so.

It's largely about making enemies for no reason by doing stuff such as supporting Israel, initiating coups, supporting oppressive governments who don't help out the population, getting rid of governments who do try to nationalise things and help out the population, shit like that. All pretty much unnecessary. Not saying they also have their own problems, too, though.

And even if it is necessary to do shit like that, then you can't exactly blame them for acting the way they do. You're right, they didn't really do shit when it came to the Oil. Everything was given to them on a plate. But that still doesn't really mean that you could expect to then fuck them around and not expect any sort of retaliation.

You can give £10 to a Hobo but if you start a fight with him he'll still probably fight back.

We do not support Israel for "no reason". We support govts. that have an international mindset and will keep the world oil flowing. Again if you do not like that, stop buying oil.

Nope, I can expect these govts. to take care of their citizens, or at least give up the oppressive behavior and beliefs of Islam and let these people have the freedom to provide for themselves. These people have no hope and they are brain-washed into beleiving it is the US's fault, when reality is, it is thfault of their govts, and their religion/culture.