Comments?BBC wrote:
An Italian judge has convicted 23 Americans - all but one of them CIA agents - and two Italian secret agents for the 2003 kidnap of a Muslim cleric.
The agents were accused of abducting Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, known as Abu Omar, from Milan and sending him to Egypt, where he was allegedly tortured.
The trial, which began in June 2007, is the first involving the CIA's so-called "extraordinary rendition" programme.
The Obama administration has expressed its disappointment at the convictions.
"We are disappointed by the verdicts," state department spokesman Ian Kelly said in Washington.
He declined to comment further pending a written opinion from the judge, but said an appeal was likely.
Three Americans and five Italians were acquitted by the court in Milan.
Symbolic ruling
The Americans were all tried in their absence as they have not been extradited from the US to Italy.
The CIA's Milan station chief at the time, Robert Lady, was given an eight-year term, while the other 22 Americans convicted - one of them a US air force colonel - were sentenced to five years in prison.
Lawyers for the 23 Americans said they would appeal against their convictions.
The two Italian agents, who were convicted as accomplices to kidnapping, were given three-year prison terms.
The court also ruled that those convicted must pay 1m euros ($1.5m) in damages to Abu Omar and 500,000 euros to his wife.
CIA spokesman George Little in Washington declined to comment on the convictions, telling the Associated Press news agency: "The CIA has not commented on any of the allegations surrounding Abu Omar."
Secrecy laws
Italian prosecutors said Abu Omar was taken as part of a series of extraordinary renditions carried out by the CIA - when terror suspects were moved between countries without any public legal process.
They told the court he had been kidnapped in daylight on a Milan street in February 2003 and flown to Germany, and then Cairo, where he was held for years until being released without charge.
Judge Oscar Magi acquitted the CIA chief for Rome, Jeffrey Castelli, saying he was protected by state secrecy rules, as were the former head of Italy's military intelligence agency, Nicolo Pollari, and his deputy, Marco Mancini.
Mr Pollari, who resigned over the affair, told the court earlier this year that documents showing he had no involvement in the kidnapping were classified under secrecy laws.
Prosecutor Armando Spataro rejected the argument that legal provisions could shield those accused from prosecution, saying any agreement to carry out a kidnapping was "absolutely against Italian law".
He had sought a 13-year jail term for Mr Castelli and Mr Pollari and 12 years for Robert Lady.
Activist group Human Rights Watch welcomed the verdict, saying it sent "a strong signal of the crimes committed by the CIA in Europe".
Spokeswoman Joanne Mariner said: "For us, this first case puts the war on terror on trial."
Justice! Hang the scum.
That's not very nice.rammunition wrote:
Justice! Hang the scum.
I do think it sends the right sort of signal though. It also means that none of those involved can go to many places outside the US without the very serious risk of being extradited to Italy - and for a CIA agent I'd expect that to be quite a handicap. There are a lot of countries with extradition treaties with Italy - all of Europe, Canada, Australia etc.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-11-04 12:49:10)
Symbolic ruling, I was hoping for the start of an action movie.
Not just symbolic, really, when you consider the extradition implications...Macbeth wrote:
Symbolic ruling, I was hoping for the start of an action movie.
Nice play Italy, even if your prime minister is a complete and utter tosspot. The great shame is that noone will ever be punished for it.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-11-04 13:01:06)
What kind of trial was this?
I've heard of several Italian trials where the accused was not present. Seems odd to me.
I've heard of several Italian trials where the accused was not present. Seems odd to me.
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
Happens all the time bro.rammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
It's called 'friendly fire' and it's usually not intentional. Just the price of waging war. You've got some serious hatred for America in you. I feel sorry for you.rammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Unfortunately I doubt that this will make the American government think twice about ignoring the sovereignty of other countries, but good verdict nonetheless.
wow what the fuck - you actually think they deliberately target friendly soldiers? you're an idiot.rammunition wrote:
No, I want justice for my people against pigs who seek world domination.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's called 'friendly fire' and it's usually not intentional. Just the price of waging war. You've got some serious hatred for America in you. I feel sorry for you.rammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 982640.ece
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
JohnG@lt wrote:
It's called 'friendly fire' and it's usually not intentional. Just the price of waging war. You've got some serious hatred for America in you. I feel sorry for you.rammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
That's the height of irony coming from a Brit.rammunition wrote:
No, I want justice for my people against pigs who seek world domination.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 982640.ece
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
yeah he always avoids that one lol.JohnG@lt wrote:
That's the height of irony coming from a Brit.rammunition wrote:
No, I want justice for my people against pigs who seek world domination.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 982640.ece
ramm pls stop making us euros look stoopid
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Justice for your people?rammunition wrote:
No, I want justice for my people against pigs who seek world domination.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's called 'friendly fire' and it's usually not intentional. Just the price of waging war. You've got some serious hatred for America in you. I feel sorry for you.rammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 982640.ece
But your an arab immigrant, and you represent nothing thats even slightly british...
Last edited by Dr.PhiL (2009-11-04 14:10:21)
lolrammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
check out the other "stories" on the right panel in the link
He's quoting a newspaper that spends most of its time dragging the name of his fellow muslims through seven shades of shit. Bizarre.Pug wrote:
lol
check out the other "stories" on the right panel in the link
Rammunition, the poster boy for tolerance...lol
Love is the answer
JohnG@lt wrote:
That's the height of irony coming from a Brit.rammunition wrote:
No, I want justice for my people against pigs who seek world domination.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 982640.ece
Lock them up.
Actually better still, send a team into the US, abduct them and torture them into admitting they're double agents for Al Qaeda.
Actually better still, send a team into the US, abduct them and torture them into admitting they're double agents for Al Qaeda.
Fuck Israel
At the end of the day, what separates us from them is following rules of the law. Shit like this needs to be done to show the clear line between us and them (terrorists). Surprised it happened in Italy of all countries though.
Thing is though, kidnapping someone, taking them to another country and then torturing them. That's just fucked up. I know it's a "war on terrorism" but shit, kidnapping and torture is what they fucking do. Fuck that shit.
No matter how you can twist it, I'd say kidnapping and torture is pretty damn illegal and immoral. Goes against the very values that this war on terror is supposed to be protecting.
Thing is though, kidnapping someone, taking them to another country and then torturing them. That's just fucked up. I know it's a "war on terrorism" but shit, kidnapping and torture is what they fucking do. Fuck that shit.
No matter how you can twist it, I'd say kidnapping and torture is pretty damn illegal and immoral. Goes against the very values that this war on terror is supposed to be protecting.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-11-04 14:56:07)
But we're the good guys!Mekstizzle wrote:
At the end of the day, what separates us from them is following rules of the law. Shit like this needs to be done to show the clear line between us and them (terrorists). Surprised it happened in Italy of all countries though.
Thing is though, kidnapping someone, taking them to another country and then torturing them. That's just fucked up. I know it's a "war on terrorism" but shit, kidnapping and torture is what they fucking do. Fuck that shit.
No matter how you can twist it, I'd say kidnapping and torture is pretty damn illegal and immoral. Goes against the very values that this war on terror is supposed to be protecting.
I thought that meant we could torture or murder whoever we liked?
Fuck Israel
You can want in one and hand and shit in the other then see which ones fills first.rammunition wrote:
No, I want justice for my people against pigs who seek world domination.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's called 'friendly fire' and it's usually not intentional. Just the price of waging war. You've got some serious hatred for America in you. I feel sorry for you.rammunition wrote:
What I want to see is American soldiers extradited to Britain to face trial for the air strikes killing British soldiers.
For E.G
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olicy.html
VILE HUMAN!!
When it came to Gary McKinnon they were up in arms to take him, despite him having a problem.
Well done Italy, We can learn by having a backbone like them and stand up for Great Britain.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 982640.ece
Maybe I should seek justice against the British Army unit that opened fire on my platoon.
Maybe I should seek justice against the cowardly bastards that detonated an IED killing my driver.
Fairly one-sided story. I thought court cases were supposed to examine evidence from both sides of the story.
I guess that's just when it's convenient and not for show.
But I guess we'll never know based on that crackerjack reporting, now will we?
I guess that's just when it's convenient and not for show.
But I guess we'll never know based on that crackerjack reporting, now will we?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular