I don't want to punish non-conformists. I want to punish those that infringe on someone elses' right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. This guy clearly is not hurting anyone.mikkel wrote:
For someone so intent on punishment for non-conformists and people who break rules and laws, you sure are very supportive when the defiant statement is one that you support.lowing wrote:
I would love to say ths is the last time I shop at Home Depot, but to be honest the nearest Lowes is over 20 more miles away. To fire a person for showing national pride is a sad testament to what our country has become. He was fired for fear of insulting or offending another person and it is ridiculous. I hope he wins this.
Sorry you are proving my point. I said it is a testament to where we have arrived in the PC dept. I know this rule is established to keep people from being offended. But to be offended by national pride is exactly what my argument is. It goes along with being offended by Merry Christmas. I suppose you will now endorse a policy of not recognizing Christmas at HD for fear of offending someone. Maybe these employees need to make sure they do not wish anyone a Merry Christmas during the Christmas season. A firing offense to be sure.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
You still miss the point. Whether you think it is PC or not is irrelevant. This business has a right to set the dress code for employees. Yes or no? They consider their business as a place where all customers should feel welcome, so eliminating all possible offensive attire is within their right. This employee was more than welcome to wear his pin when not working.lowing wrote:
admit it, 25 years ago there would have been nothing wrong with it. So yes, it is testament to the PC direction our country is headed.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Lowing, that company has the right to set a dress code policy, and yes they are often created so as to not offend customers. They set it, he disregarded it. They make policies like this so it is uniform and people don't start wearing whatever they want, then having to decide whether something is or is not appropriate for work attire.
And yes, this was religious, not about national pride. The fact that his pin depicted a passage that was only added by a bunch of religious zealots back in the 1950s, and then start reading his Bible at work shows that this was about religion. If you want to show national pride, then something like "I pledge Allegiance" or "With liberty and justice for all." shows national pride.
One nation under god, sorry, but it is widely accepted that all the major religions worship the same god.
There vshould be nothing offensive by his button. and again, I maintain that most of you bitching about this would bew defending a Muslim wearing a turban at work.
And as usual, you can't post in a single thread without blaming liberals or bringing up Muslims. But at any rate, no I don't support Muslims having special rules. The article some time back about Muslim women that worked in hospitals and didn't want to wash their hands according to medical protocols because they had to expose too much skin...my response that was they should find a different line of work.
Most businesses try to create a safe, friendly atmosphere for their customers and employees. If that means setting dress codes that may seem "PC" so as to not offend other employees or their customers, that's their damn right. As far as I'm concerned, any dress code put in place for reasons of health or safety should always trump religious beliefs.
the question really being, where do you plan on drawing the line in the sand and say enough is enough if this bullshit?
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-29 13:14:24)
along with christmas ........ HD would have to shut down their christmas dept and stop selling itlowing wrote:
Sorry you are proving my point. I said it is a testament to where we have arrived in the PC dept. I know this rule is established to keep people from being offended. But to be offended by national pride is exactly what my argument is. It goes along with being offended by Merry Christmas. I suppose you will now endorse a policy of not recognizing Christmas at HD for fear of offending someone. Maybe these employees need to make sure they do not wish anyone a Merry Christmas during the Christmas season. A firing offense to be sure.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
You still miss the point. Whether you think it is PC or not is irrelevant. This business has a right to set the dress code for employees. Yes or no? They consider their business as a place where all customers should feel welcome, so eliminating all possible offensive attire is within their right. This employee was more than welcome to wear his pin when not working.lowing wrote:
admit it, 25 years ago there would have been nothing wrong with it. So yes, it is testament to the PC direction our country is headed.
One nation under god, sorry, but it is widely accepted that all the major religions worship the same god.
There vshould be nothing offensive by his button. and again, I maintain that most of you bitching about this would bew defending a Muslim wearing a turban at work.
And as usual, you can't post in a single thread without blaming liberals or bringing up Muslims. But at any rate, no I don't support Muslims having special rules. The article some time back about Muslim women that worked in hospitals and didn't want to wash their hands according to medical protocols because they had to expose too much skin...my response that was they should find a different line of work.
Most businesses try to create a safe, friendly atmosphere for their customers and employees. If that means setting dress codes that may seem "PC" so as to not offend other employees or their customers, that's their damn right. As far as I'm concerned, any dress code put in place for reasons of health or safety should always trump religious beliefs.
the question really being, where do you plan on drawing the line in the sand and say enough is enough if this bullshit?
This is the problem of tying religion into the state. If someone objects to certain religious references suddenly they "hate the country" and are "offended by national pride" - just look at how you're equating being possibly annoyed or offended by religious statements and twisting it around into hating the nation. It's disturbing.
What is all this bullshit pseudo patriotic statements you're making. On one hand you're all "let everyone be free" on the other you're "OBEY AMERICA, BE A PATRIOT, FIGHT FOR AMERICA, LISTEN TO GOD" and shit.
What is all this bullshit pseudo patriotic statements you're making. On one hand you're all "let everyone be free" on the other you're "OBEY AMERICA, BE A PATRIOT, FIGHT FOR AMERICA, LISTEN TO GOD" and shit.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-10-29 13:17:11)
Christmas is more than a religious holiday, can't remember being taught about Santa Claus in the bible. The guy was fired for fear of offending some one (everyone already admits that) with his national pride button. I didn't tie it together, it was packaged that way.Mekstizzle wrote:
This is the problem of tying religion into the state. If someone objects to certain religious references suddenly they "hate the country" and are "offended by national pride" - just look at how you're equating being possibly annoyed or offended by religious statements and twisting it around into hating the nation. It's disturbing.
What is all this bullshit pseudo patriotic statements you're making. On one hand you're all "let everyone be free" on the other you're "OBEY AMERICA, BE A PATRIOT, FIGHT FOR AMERICA, LISTEN TO GOD" and shit.
Also, I am not making up the offending Merry Christmas statement. It has been an issue every year for a few years now.
I never said" "OBEY AMERICA, BE A PATRIOT, FIGHT FOR AMERICA, LISTEN TO GOD" " so please do not quote me as such, unless you can site a reference where I said it.
This guy is not hurting anyone with his national pride button, and to fire him, take away his job and his means of supporting his family for such non-sense is over the top to say the least.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-29 13:55:18)
Well surely they will if someone gets offended, and this forum would rally support for the offended party based on this thread ( and others).SEREMAKER wrote:
along with christmas ........ HD would have to shut down their christmas dept and stop selling itlowing wrote:
Sorry you are proving my point. I said it is a testament to where we have arrived in the PC dept. I know this rule is established to keep people from being offended. But to be offended by national pride is exactly what my argument is. It goes along with being offended by Merry Christmas. I suppose you will now endorse a policy of not recognizing Christmas at HD for fear of offending someone. Maybe these employees need to make sure they do not wish anyone a Merry Christmas during the Christmas season. A firing offense to be sure.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
You still miss the point. Whether you think it is PC or not is irrelevant. This business has a right to set the dress code for employees. Yes or no? They consider their business as a place where all customers should feel welcome, so eliminating all possible offensive attire is within their right. This employee was more than welcome to wear his pin when not working.
And as usual, you can't post in a single thread without blaming liberals or bringing up Muslims. But at any rate, no I don't support Muslims having special rules. The article some time back about Muslim women that worked in hospitals and didn't want to wash their hands according to medical protocols because they had to expose too much skin...my response that was they should find a different line of work.
Most businesses try to create a safe, friendly atmosphere for their customers and employees. If that means setting dress codes that may seem "PC" so as to not offend other employees or their customers, that's their damn right. As far as I'm concerned, any dress code put in place for reasons of health or safety should always trump religious beliefs.
the question really being, where do you plan on drawing the line in the sand and say enough is enough if this bullshit?
He was breaking company policy. Do you now hold the view that private corporations are not allowed to enforce their own rules and regulations within the confines of their places of ownership? That it's now OK to break the rules? The way they are broken is irrelevant; if the rules are broken the company is fully within their rights to terminate an associate.lowing wrote:
This guy is not hurting anyone with his national pride button, and ot fire him, take away his job and his means of supporting his family for such non-sense is over the top to tsay the least.
Except when it's national pride, and then you are allowed to break the rules. Isn't that right lowing?Marconius wrote:
He was breaking company policy. Do you now hold the view that private corporations are not allowed to enforce their own rules and regulations within the confines of their places of ownership? That it's now OK to break the rules? The way they are broken is irrelevant; if the rules are broken the company is fully within their rights to terminate an associate.lowing wrote:
This guy is not hurting anyone with his national pride button, and ot fire him, take away his job and his means of supporting his family for such non-sense is over the top to tsay the least.
Ah, good old slippery slopes...blinded by Nationalism until you actually start careening down one of them...
Yes i agree that they have the right to set and enforce their rules. My point is, the rules of PC is getting out of hand and stupid. Like I said 25 years ago this would not be an issue.Marconius wrote:
He was breaking company policy. Do you now hold the view that private corporations are not allowed to enforce their own rules and regulations within the confines of their places of ownership? That it's now OK to break the rules? The way they are broken is irrelevant; if the rules are broken the company is fully within their rights to terminate an associate.lowing wrote:
This guy is not hurting anyone with his national pride button, and ot fire him, take away his job and his means of supporting his family for such non-sense is over the top to tsay the least.
Nope. read my posts, my argument is where we have arrived in this PC bullshit, not the breaking of company policy.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Except when it's national pride, and then you are allowed to break the rules. Isn't that right lowing?Marconius wrote:
He was breaking company policy. Do you now hold the view that private corporations are not allowed to enforce their own rules and regulations within the confines of their places of ownership? That it's now OK to break the rules? The way they are broken is irrelevant; if the rules are broken the company is fully within their rights to terminate an associate.lowing wrote:
This guy is not hurting anyone with his national pride button, and ot fire him, take away his job and his means of supporting his family for such non-sense is over the top to tsay the least.
maybe you should actually read my posts as well.Marconius wrote:
Ah, good old slippery slopes...blinded by Nationalism until you actually start careening down one of them...
And I'm saying the case of it being PC or not is completely irrelevant to this.
He wasn't hurting anyone, but he disregarded the codes of conduct established by his private employer, and was terminated accordingly. I find it highly amusing that you, of all people, are hoping for a legal verdict establishing which codes of conduct this private employer can and cannot have in place at their private establishment.lowing wrote:
I don't want to punish non-conformists. I want to punish those that infringe on someone elses' right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. This guy clearly is not hurting anyone.mikkel wrote:
For someone so intent on punishment for non-conformists and people who break rules and laws, you sure are very supportive when the defiant statement is one that you support.lowing wrote:
I would love to say ths is the last time I shop at Home Depot, but to be honest the nearest Lowes is over 20 more miles away. To fire a person for showing national pride is a sad testament to what our country has become. He was fired for fear of insulting or offending another person and it is ridiculous. I hope he wins this.
actually no, it isn't. Only recently has a pledge of allegiance to America been viewed as possibly offensive and deemed not worth taking the chance of offending someone be doing so.Marconius wrote:
And I'm saying the case of it being PC or not is completely irrelevant to this.
Nope, I want a verdict that defies PC and the offended people. enough is enoughmikkel wrote:
He wasn't hurting anyone, but he disregarded the codes of conduct established by his private employer, and was terminated accordingly. I find it highly amusing that you, of all people, are hoping for a legal verdict establishing which codes of conduct this private employer can and cannot have in place at their private establishment.lowing wrote:
I don't want to punish non-conformists. I want to punish those that infringe on someone elses' right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. This guy clearly is not hurting anyone.mikkel wrote:
For someone so intent on punishment for non-conformists and people who break rules and laws, you sure are very supportive when the defiant statement is one that you support.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-29 14:26:36)
Look follow a companies work policies or live on benefits. Its that simple. He is getting paid to work, not to shove down peoples throats some loony phrase
^^^^^^^^^^^^rammunition wrote:
Look follow a companies work policies or live on benefits. Its that simple. He is getting paid to work, not to shove down peoples throats some loony phrase
another one that would be singing a different song if this were a Muslim fired for wearing a turban.
Well, there we have it, guys. Lowing is hoping to trample the rights of private businesses to serve his own moral righteousness.lowing wrote:
Nope, I want a verdict that defies PC and the offended people. enough is enoughmikkel wrote:
He wasn't hurting anyone, but he disregarded the codes of conduct established by his private employer, and was terminated accordingly. I find it highly amusing that you, of all people, are hoping for a legal verdict establishing which codes of conduct this private employer can and cannot have in place at their private establishment.lowing wrote:
I don't want to punish non-conformists. I want to punish those that infringe on someone elses' right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. This guy clearly is not hurting anyone.
Whats this got to do with muslims?lowing wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^rammunition wrote:
Look follow a companies work policies or live on benefits. Its that simple. He is getting paid to work, not to shove down peoples throats some loony phrase
another one that would be singing a different song if this were a Muslim fired for wearing a turban.
You think muslims are responsible for everything.
They must have caused the recession. Of course, they all have 15 children and decided they needed 3 homes each and couldn't pay the mortgage.
Wow, is that what I said?mikkel wrote:
Well, there we have it, guys. Lowing is hoping to trample the rights of private businesses to serve his own moral righteousness.lowing wrote:
Nope, I want a verdict that defies PC and the offended people. enough is enoughmikkel wrote:
He wasn't hurting anyone, but he disregarded the codes of conduct established by his private employer, and was terminated accordingly. I find it highly amusing that you, of all people, are hoping for a legal verdict establishing which codes of conduct this private employer can and cannot have in place at their private establishment.
Hmmmmm, didn't say that either, oh well, maybe one of you will make an argument based on what I actually said. I won't hold my breathrammunition wrote:
Whats this got to do with muslims?lowing wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^rammunition wrote:
Look follow a companies work policies or live on benefits. Its that simple. He is getting paid to work, not to shove down peoples throats some loony phrase
another one that would be singing a different song if this were a Muslim fired for wearing a turban.
You think muslims are responsible for everything.
They must have caused the recession. Of course, they all have 15 children and decided they needed 3 homes each and couldn't pay the mortgage.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-29 15:57:58)
Actually, yes, it is. No matter how you try to spin it, he violated a dress code policy and didn't comply with his employers when they requested the button to be removed. The content of the button doesn't matter...whether it's "god bless america" or "god hates fags" or "eat at Joe's", the very act of having something on that the corporation didn't authorize through dress-code policy is indeed breaking the policy.lowing wrote:
actually no, it isn't. Only recently has a pledge of allegiance to America been viewed as possibly offensive and deemed not worth taking the chance of offending someone be doing so.Marconius wrote:
And I'm saying the case of it being PC or not is completely irrelevant to this.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Look Marconious, the issue is not the pin. The issue is how far we have come in the PC arena that such bullshit rules and policies are even in place, all for the sake of sparing someones feelings who might take offense to national pride, God or "Joe". This is the argument I am making.Marconius wrote:
Actually, yes, it is. No matter how you try to spin it, he violated a dress code policy and didn't comply with his employers when they requested the button to be removed. The content of the button doesn't matter...whether it's "god bless america" or "god hates fags" or "eat at Joe's", the very act of having something on that the corporation didn't authorize through dress-code policy is indeed breaking the policy.lowing wrote:
actually no, it isn't. Only recently has a pledge of allegiance to America been viewed as possibly offensive and deemed not worth taking the chance of offending someone be doing so.Marconius wrote:
And I'm saying the case of it being PC or not is completely irrelevant to this.
You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
He was punished for not following company policy."It feels kind of like a punishment, like I was punished for just loving my country," Keezer said
Being a christian nutball =/= loving his country.
Fuck Israel