BF2S Forums Israelis don't want peace

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Israel isn't just Jews you know.

its a so called "jewish state" and the "land of the jews"

And yet it still isn't just inhabited by Jews.

Tell that to the Jews, the Jews want it for themselves

rammunition wrote:

lowing wrote:

rammunition wrote:

So if a man walks into a bank and robs it, killing lets say 5 will you blame the police for not acting prior to the robbery? Despite no known intelligence of the crime?

You talk a load of crap, engage your brain not your arse.

Quote

"Following yesterday's rocket attack by Aksa Martyrs Brigade(June 26 08) a spokesman for the Hamas government, Taher al-Nunu, called Fatah's actions "unpatriotic". He said Hamas was considering the possibility of taking action against those perpetrating the attacks against Israel.
    Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh called Friday on Palestinian factions to adhere to the Gaza Strip lull agreement with Israel. "The factions and the people accepted the lull in order to secure two interests – an end to aggression and the lifting of the siege. Therefore, we hope that everyone honors this national agreement", he said following Friday prayers"

If you are trying to compare walking into a bank with a gun in your coat, with setting up  fuckin' mulitple rocket launchers in a well populated area

Don't.

its like talking to a brick wall, trouble it there is more sence in the wall than in you

Bertster7 wrote:

Well, there you go, solid evidence of current intent to kidnap by Hamas.

an eye for an eye imo

Kmarion wrote:

More enemies of the Palestinian state?

more people willing to die to see freedom.

one thing I have noticed, you tend to go for insults when you can not make an argument. I expect nothing more form you.

unless of course you really want to go on record stating that a gun hidden in a pocket draws the same attention as several rocket launchers being set up in a highly populated area, that apparently no one notices.

Last edited by lowing (2009-10-12 16:14:55)

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

And yet it still isn't just inhabited by Jews.

Tell that to the Jews, the Jews want it for themselves

You're missing the point. 20% of Israels population is made up of Arabs and most of them are Muslims. So it seems to me that instead of blaming the Israelis, you're blaming the Jewish part of the Israelis, which isn't the entire demographic of the country.

You are missing the point. The Jews claim that Israel is the land of the Jews and is their country. They claim "God" chose them over everyone else.
The Arabs/Christians in Israel are treated like crap. Its not just "Israeli Jews" who claim the above statements. Its extreme Jews all over the world who do so. So from that bases its correct to say Jews rather than Israeli.

lowing wrote:

one thing I have noticed, you tend to go for insults when you can not make an argument. I expect nothing more form you.

unless of course you really want to go on record stating that a gun hidden in a pocket draws the same attention as several rocket launchers being set up in a highly populated area, that apparently no one notices.

There is a video on youtube of 2 gun men who robbed a place brandishing guns on the streets. They then started shooting at cops but they had body armour, I'm sure you remember this. I believe both were shot but not sure if killed. Will you blame police for not acting THE SECOND these people brandished their guns on the streets?

Pug wrote:

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

You're missing the point. 20% of Israels population is made up of Arabs and most of them are Muslims. So it seems to me that instead of blaming the Israelis, you're blaming the Jewish part of the Israelis, which isn't the entire demographic of the country.

You are missing the point. The Jews claim that Israel is the land of the Jews and is their country. They claim "God" chose them over everyone else.

Didn't the UN establish the State of Israel?

Yes, not "god". Point???

rammunition wrote:

Pug wrote:

rammunition wrote:

You are missing the point. The Jews claim that Israel is the land of the Jews and is their country. They claim "God" chose them over everyone else.

Didn't the UN establish the State of Israel?

Yes, not "god". Point???

It IS their country, the UN granted it.

ruisleipa wrote:

I think rammunition might be trying to point out that a country founded through the destruction of another people's homeland, said people being forced to live in squalor and poverty for the next several decades or so, will never be peaceful. The most basic, uncomplicated fact is that if Israel was serious about peace as opposed to land-grabbing and shitting on the Palestinians, they would stop the illegal building of settlements, withdraw to previously agreed boundaries, stop building and dismantle the 'apartheid wall' and give Israeli Arabs equivalent rights to Israeli Jews, with a view to providing (or at least not preventing) the Palestinians with the possibility of actually living there as well.

All this talk of 'whoshot first' is obscuring the fundamental issues, which suits the Israeli authorities very nicely thanks.

Pretty much sums it up I reckon.

Except you have to take into account whether the Pals would adhere to any kind of peace and not just use it as an oppurtunity to get into Israel and set off a few bombs.

UN gave the Jewish people with nowhere else to go their own state, on the land they originated from. The Arabs didn't like that, so they launch attacks and several wars, and got their asses kicked and lost territory in the process. Their fault. It would also stem from that the current situation. Israel is (and rightfully so) very serious about its security. It is surrounded by potential enemies, bordering many of them. Israel is a prime example of a country which has to constantly live on edge and be hard to enforce security. When so many of your neighbours vowed to wipe you out over the years, you're going to take a hardline against anyone who might do.

well I can't be bothered to get into another debate about it cos I'm damn tired, but saying that 'the Palestinians' (all of them, or just some hardliners?) might not adhere to any kind of peace isn't a reason not to try. Plus, why wouldn't they? The Palestinians are  a people with families, fathers, mothers, children, farms, jobs, businesses, who want most of all what everyone does - the chance to live on land of their choosing in peace. Yes, there are extremist elements just like there is amongst any population. In Ireland peace worked even though a hardcore tried to disrupt it for years. The Basque separatists are still active, but no-one suggests the Spaniards should build a wall around Basque country or bulldoze their homes, do they?

Yeah, OK, so the Jews 'originated' from the approximate area we now call Israel according to an ancient book full of half-truths and misinformation. You say it's 'the Arabs fault', but I ask you, why was it fair or just to expel a WHOLE PEOPLE from their OWN HOMES, uproot families, destroy lives, in the process of creating a state for Zionists? No, it wasn't just.  In any case, all that stuff is still, as I said above, not addressing the fundamentals of the current situation - Israel's illegal, immoral and disgraceful attitudes towrds the Palestinians and their own Arab population over the last decades. THAT is what needs to be addressed, and the only way to do that seriously is to stop the illegal building of settlements, withdraw to previously agreed boundaries, stop building and dismantle the 'apartheid wall' and give Israeli Arabs equivalent rights to Israeli Jews, with a view to providing (or at least not preventing) the Palestinians with the possibility of actually living there as well. As I said before.

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Tell that to the Jews, the Jews want it for themselves

You're missing the point. 20% of Israels population is made up of Arabs and most of them are Muslims. So it seems to me that instead of blaming the Israelis, you're blaming the Jewish part of the Israelis, which isn't the entire demographic of the country.

You are missing the point. The Jews claim that Israel is the land of the Jews and is their country. They claim "God" chose them over everyone else.
The Arabs/Christians in Israel are treated like crap. Its not just "Israeli Jews" who claim the above statements. Its extreme Jews all over the world who do so. So from that bases its correct to say Jews rather than Israeli.

lowing wrote:

one thing I have noticed, you tend to go for insults when you can not make an argument. I expect nothing more form you.

unless of course you really want to go on record stating that a gun hidden in a pocket draws the same attention as several rocket launchers being set up in a highly populated area, that apparently no one notices.

There is a video on youtube of 2 gun men who robbed a place brandishing guns on the streets. They then started shooting at cops but they had body armour, I'm sure you remember this. I believe both were shot but not sure if killed. Will you blame police for not acting THE SECOND these people brandished their guns on the streets?

So you think these guys you refer to could have gotten away with setting up several rocket launchers in the middle of the street and fire them into downtown LA without any one noticing? It isn't the same thing and you know it.

Last edited by lowing (2009-10-13 18:19:50)

FEOS wrote:

So...the Jews get kicked out of Egypt. They move to Israel. They get kicked out of Israel. They move to Europe. They get start to get kicked out of Europe...war gets in the way...they get mass executed instead...the UN gives them back Israel.

Incorrect.
They chose to leave Egypt - For a better life in the promised land, as apparently they didn't get along with the Egyptians
They chose to leave Israel - For a better life in Europe, as apparently they didn't get along with the Romans
They chose to leave Europe - For a better life in Israel as apparently they didn't get along with the Germans

Right up until WW2 started, much of Europe was all about helping Adolf find a solution to his problem.

How exactly? The US didn't want them either BTW, unless they had PhDs.

What the fuck did they ever do to you Euros?

Wherever they go people persecute them, apparently.
You explain it, seriously, I don't know the answer.

And, yawn, I have jewish friends, my mother is godmother to a jewish girl, my father has probably done more for jews and in the last 50 years than most - and was made a 'righteous gentile' or whatever as a result (he got the Stilton and everything).

ruisleipa wrote:

I think rammunition might be trying to point out that a country founded through the destruction of another people's homeland, said people being forced to live in squalor and poverty for the next several decades or so, will never be peaceful. The most basic, uncomplicated fact is that if Israel was serious about peace as opposed to land-grabbing and shitting on the Palestinians, they would stop the illegal building of settlements, withdraw to previously agreed boundaries, stop building and dismantle the 'apartheid wall' and give Israeli Arabs equivalent rights to Israeli Jews, with a view to providing (or at least not preventing) the Palestinians with the possibility of actually living there as well.

All this talk of 'whoshot first' is obscuring the fundamental issues, which suits the Israeli authorities very nicely thanks.

Pretty much sums it up I reckon.

You stole your land from the Lapps. Franks stole their land from the Celts. The Norse stole land from the Britons, and then the Franks came in and conquered them too. Italy, well Italy under Rome stole land from EVERYONE. Spain stole back land from the Moors. Austria stole most of the Balkans before that empire broke up. I can go on and on and on if you want me to.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It's not wherever they go...just wherever they go in Europe/Levant, apparently.

America too apparently.

But concerning the holocaust, this book also puts blood on the hands of the English and Americans. In the 1940s, America only accepted a certain amount of Jewish immigration, so the vast amount of refugees had nowhere to go.

Shocking anti-semitic actions by Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt mingle with tales of pacifists and theater crowds screaming hate at images of Wilhelm II.

Still, maybe you can explain why they were unpopular throughout America, Europe, Russia and the ME.

Same reason the Templars were killed off. Discredit the people you owe money, incite the populace against them, and keep your ill gotten wealth. The Jews are an easy target because they have strange customs and worship a different God than the majority wherever they are. The fact that they rarely marry outside of their clan and keep to themselves doesn't help either.

JohnG@lt wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

I think rammunition might be trying to point out that a country founded through the destruction of another people's homeland, said people being forced to live in squalor and poverty for the next several decades or so, will never be peaceful. The most basic, uncomplicated fact is that if Israel was serious about peace as opposed to land-grabbing and shitting on the Palestinians, they would stop the illegal building of settlements, withdraw to previously agreed boundaries, stop building and dismantle the 'apartheid wall' and give Israeli Arabs equivalent rights to Israeli Jews, with a view to providing (or at least not preventing) the Palestinians with the possibility of actually living there as well.

All this talk of 'whoshot first' is obscuring the fundamental issues, which suits the Israeli authorities very nicely thanks.

Pretty much sums it up I reckon.

You stole your land from the Lapps. Franks stole their land from the Celts. The Norse stole land from the Britons, and then the Franks came in and conquered them too. Italy, well Italy under Rome stole land from EVERYONE. Spain stole back land from the Moors. Austria stole most of the Balkans before that empire broke up. I can go on and on and on if you want me to.

So what? That doesn't make any of it right, and it's not an argument for continuing to do so in our 'enlightened' age.

ruisleipa wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

I think rammunition might be trying to point out that a country founded through the destruction of another people's homeland, said people being forced to live in squalor and poverty for the next several decades or so, will never be peaceful. The most basic, uncomplicated fact is that if Israel was serious about peace as opposed to land-grabbing and shitting on the Palestinians, they would stop the illegal building of settlements, withdraw to previously agreed boundaries, stop building and dismantle the 'apartheid wall' and give Israeli Arabs equivalent rights to Israeli Jews, with a view to providing (or at least not preventing) the Palestinians with the possibility of actually living there as well.

All this talk of 'whoshot first' is obscuring the fundamental issues, which suits the Israeli authorities very nicely thanks.

Pretty much sums it up I reckon.

You stole your land from the Lapps. Franks stole their land from the Celts. The Norse stole land from the Britons, and then the Franks came in and conquered them too. Italy, well Italy under Rome stole land from EVERYONE. Spain stole back land from the Moors. Austria stole most of the Balkans before that empire broke up. I can go on and on and on if you want me to.

So what? That doesn't make any of it right, and it's not an argument for continuing to do so in our 'enlightened' age.

It's pretty much how we came to be enlightened in the first place ... and while Europe, US and Asia is more or less finished with their enlightened period it's now time for Africa and the ME to sort out their business and be done with it ... those parts of the world will never evolve without conflicts being settled, and nothing settles a conflict like a good ol war ...