BF2S Forums Teacher Humiliates Deployed Soldiers Girl

JohnG@lt wrote:

I mean hell, I experienced both public and private schools growing up. The teachers at the private school made half as much in pay but were far superior as teachers. Sure, they had better students too, but they were not only more knowledgeable, but happier as well. Oh, and they didn't have guaranteed contracts.

JohnG@lt wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I mean hell, I experienced both public and private schools growing up. The teachers at the private school made half as much in pay but were far superior as teachers. Sure, they had better students too, but they were not only more knowledgeable, but happier as well. Oh, and they didn't have guaranteed contracts.

Private school means students who want to learn, it makes a world of difference.  Nobody would teach in the inner city unless they were desperate and unqualified, and that's exactly what the inner city gets, teachers who ask who their students are "goin' for" in the election.

Not at all. There are quite a few charter schools in NYC that were built especially for high risk kids in crap neighborhoods. Those charter schools are non-union, attract the very best teachers and have a graduation rate about 3x that of the normal public schools.

JohnG@lt wrote:

I mean hell, I experienced both public and private schools growing up. The teachers at the private school made half as much in pay but were far superior as teachers. Sure, they had better students too, but they were not only more knowledgeable, but happier as well. Oh, and they didn't have guaranteed contracts.

JohnG@lt wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

It's a charter school, they still get to decide who they take, and only concerned parents apply to them.  I know kids who grew up in the ghetto and turned out fine, hell, there was a double shooting walking distance from my house last month, and I know kids who grew up in million dollar houses and went straight to jail, it's all about the parenting.

Then if we agree that it comes down to parenting, how does throwing more money at teachers solve any problems? It doesn't.

S.Lythberg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

It's a charter school, they still get to decide who they take, and only concerned parents apply to them.  I know kids who grew up in the ghetto and turned out fine, hell, there was a double shooting walking distance from my house last month, and I know kids who grew up in million dollar houses and went straight to jail, it's all about the parenting.

Then if we agree that it comes down to parenting, how does throwing more money at teachers solve any problems? It doesn't.

The entire system needs an overhaul, better wages, less favoritism, better built schools (how about one design for the whole nation, to minimize the disparity) and more parental accountability.

S.Lythberg wrote:

Because nobody with a degree in chemistry will teach chemistry for $30,000 when local companies will pay $60,000 right out of college.

JohnG@lt wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Why are you stuck on the better wages thing?

Because nobody with a degree in chemistry will teach chemistry for $30,000 when local companies will pay $60,000 right out of college.

But I've already stated that not all teachers are compensated so poorly. Doesn't improve the quality of people going into teaching.

JohnG@lt wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

Screen them better, make the teaching degree curriculum more difficult (Kind of a joke now, they don't even know basic math).  The unqualified idiots are there because of favoritism, they knew somebody, and that's how they got the job, qualified or not.

There is a dearth of teachers in math and science across the nation. There are a million and one people that want to be history, gym or english teachers. Difficult to screen out the bad teachers when they're hurting so badly for people in the profession in many areas.

Hell, most of my hard math and science teachers in college have been eastern European. My Calc professor was a one armed Russian.

S.Lythberg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

Screen them better, make the teaching degree curriculum more difficult (Kind of a joke now, they don't even know basic math).  The unqualified idiots are there because of favoritism, they knew somebody, and that's how they got the job, qualified or not.

There is a dearth of teachers in math and science across the nation. There are a million and one people that want to be history, gym or english teachers. Difficult to screen out the bad teachers when they're hurting so badly for people in the profession in many areas.

Hell, most of my hard math and science teachers in college have been eastern European. My Calc professor was a one armed Russian.

Mine had two arms, and a stereotypical Russian hat. 

You and I are both well qualified to teach high school level math, but neither of us would do it for the money they pay, too much bullshit to put up with.

If we keep the wages the same, as you're arguing, then the level off bull crap teachers are expected to put up with must come way down before anyone qualified will enter the field.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

But Like S.Lythberg stated, the support by the parents is key.. If the parents care enough to send their kid to private school, then they probably care enough to look after the kid, make sure they are loved and well nourished and encouraged.

Public school, you get a mix of parents some care, some don't, some are crack heads, and some teachers deserve combat pay.


Market incentives work to attract good people, but it often takes something more to keep these people... things like having good kids to teach.

Ok, then what's the solution then? As I've said repeatedly in this thread, teachers in this area make six figures for salary. There isn't any noticeable increase in the quality of teachers attracted. Hell, you're as likely to get an old 80 year old bag teaching math as anything.

The only solution to fixing our schools would be to neuter potential bad parents. I don't think we want to go there, now do we?

LOL or may be not... I had an old bag for teacher, and she stunk (literally and figuratively) too teaching math in high school. her thing was to yell at people not to write anything down as she was writing it because she had to explain it first. then she would say "see its like this and that" and then promptly erase it before you could write it down. There are some really bad teachers out there.

Here's who I see it
1. good wages attract talent and trap bad teachers who can't mke good wages elsewhere
2. pensions should be portable because there is nothing wrose that having a bad teachers hanging around waiting to retire

you need good wages to attract people when they are deciding what to take in university. If it pays shit wage or a wage comparable to a garbage man then why bother, go into nursing or business or something where you have a chance to pay back your student loans.

Anyway, you need to be able to fire bad teachers.
I get what you are saying about unions being an impediment, but I can see that if you got rid of unions what it would do is politicize teachers wages to a greater extend and it would become open season on all teachers, good and bad. The solution would be worse than the problem.

There are so many problems with the school these days, their are too big, over crowded, run like prisons. I mean they have their own police forces like WTF. Schools are one place where using economies of scale ensures the production of a bad product.


So my solution... why bother fixing it, be one of the parents who cares about their kid, make sure your kid gets to go to the best school you can find and/or afford. If other parents don't give shit about their kid, then why should you care about their kid, every one has to find their own path in life, you should just concentrate on making it easier or you kid.

Some kids just are not academically inclined or their damages in utero or whatever and like they say the world needs ditch diggers too. its cruel but true.

Spark wrote:

Teacher retention is the key IMO. The best teachers I've ever had were those who wre on the job 10, 20, 30 years and genuinely wanted to teach.

The less good teachers were generally the more inexperienced ones who were either too forceful, too loose, or both at once (which is always a bucket of fun )