Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

Kittens, brutality, fetish videos, and dogfighting—these aren't the elements of a twisted cable-television show; they're just some of the factors in one of Tuesday's U.S. Supreme Court cases that will kick off the court’s new term. The court will hear the federal government's appeal of U.S. v. Stevens, a circuit court's overturning of a 1999 federal law that makes it a crime to create, sell, or possess depictions of animal cruelty for commercial gain. If the court reverses the lower court's decision and reinstates the law, images showing the intentional torture or killing of animals would be deemed illegal. But technically, so might depictions of bullfighting in Spain or fishing and hunting out of season.

Sexual-fetish videos called “crush videos” became an Internet craze in the late 1990s, picturing women in their bare feet or high heels crushing to death small animals such as mice or kittens. Congress passed a law in 1999 to outlaw the production of the videos, and distribution of them came to a halt. Though the law has been in effect for years, no one was ever prosecuted for producing a crush video. Instead, in 2004, a Virginia man was the first person to be indicted under the law for selling what he claims is an educational film.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/216740

Not trolling, but I don't see the big deal about animals. Isn't the cat or hamster or whatever just a person property and they should be allowed to do whatever they want with it? You can buy mice from a pet store and feed it to a snake, it's still just property you bought. People bought the kittens, shouldn't they be allowed to do whatever they want with the property they bought with their hard earned money?
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6760
But.. But.. Kittens are sooooooooooo kawaii
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5993|College Park, MD
So if I buy a gun I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it? Like rob a bank?
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

So if I buy a gun I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it? Like rob a bank?
I'm saying that the cats are technically lower life forms than a human being and are bought and sold at stores. The people should be able to do whatever they want with their property as long as it doesn't hurt another human beings. If the cat which was brought for a few hundred dollars was stomped out in my bedroom by a woman for my personal pleasure who's business would it be?

How this is as illegal as child porn is insane. Before you say anything about considering cats lower life forms, if they are bought at a store for personal pleasure in the form of their cuteness or company they are just animals of pleasure, products, and commodities.
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5993|College Park, MD
Robbing a bank without shooting anyone wouldn't hurt any human beings
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Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6966|Canberra, AUS

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Robbing a bank without shooting anyone wouldn't hurt any human beings
Except the people whose money you're stealing.

But I agree with your general gist.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Robbing a bank without shooting anyone wouldn't hurt any human beings
I believe Macbeth's argument is that "crush videos" are victimless crimes, as those animals aren't considered high enough life forms to be considered victims...thus, no harm done. Essentially no worse than any other sick fetish video that doesn't involve killing something, I guess.

Robbing a bank is not a victimless crime, so that analogy doesn't really apply against his argument.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6973|Disaster Free Zone
MacBeth you need help.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6941

DrunkFace wrote:

MacBeth you need a bullet in the head
13rin
Member
+977|6770

DrunkFace wrote:

MacBeth you need help.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX
Well, kids are technically a lower form of life than adults, and kids are their parents property, so snuff movies involving kids are OK?
Lets say anyone under 21 is fair game.
That would be you wouldn't it?

There are laws intended to protect animals from sick inadequate fuckheads like Macbeth, and rightly so.
Fuck Israel
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6760
You can kill mice with traps, use worms as bait for fish, and shoot deer with your gun.

But kittens are soooooooooooooooo kawaii ^_^
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6513|teh FIN-land

Macbeth wrote:

I'm saying that the cats are technically lower life forms than a human being

Before you say anything about considering cats lower life forms, if they are bought at a store for personal pleasure in the form of their cuteness or company they are just animals of pleasure, products, and commodities.
So humans bought and sold through slavery are lower forms of life than humans who are not bought and sold. I think you'll have to do a lot better than that to justify the first statement above. But please try. Please.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6738|Chicago, IL
https://blogs.westword.com/demver/kitten.JPG

must protect!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5649|London, England

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Robbing a bank without shooting anyone wouldn't hurt any human beings
Yes, you in fact are hurting human beings. You are stealing units of their time. Money represents units of time to the individual. If you make $10 an hour, every ten dollar bill represents one hour of your time. If someone stole $1000 from you they've stolen 100 hours of your life. So yes, stealing money does in fact hurt people.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-CARNIFEX-[LOC]
Da Blooze
+111|6945

JohnG@lt wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Robbing a bank without shooting anyone wouldn't hurt any human beings
Yes, you in fact are hurting human beings. You are stealing units of their time. Money represents units of time to the individual. If you make $10 an hour, every ten dollar bill represents one hour of your time. If someone stole $1000 from you they've stolen 100 hours of your life. So yes, stealing money does in fact hurt people.
While I completely agree with this logic, I've always found it interesting that it implies that robbing a wealthy person of a given sum is thus less of a crime than robbing a poor person of the same amount, because you've technically stolen a larger percent of the poor person's time (and thus of their life).  Just something I thought of while reading Atlas Shrugged...

Back on topic, do you see professional help on a regular basis Macbeth?  I've never completely figured out if this is just a form of trolling or if you honestly hold some of the opinions you espouse.

Crushing kittens is fucked up and vile.  Doing otherwise, outside of an accident, is reprehensible, regardless of whether or not one did it out of spite or simply as entertainment.

Snakes are fed mice as food.  People eat lower form animals all the time.  The difference is that the death of the creatures in these instances is directly tied to the extension of life of another creature.

Killing something simply for the enjoyment of the experience is wasteful, reprehensible, and a relatively standard sign of significant psychological issues.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg
SEREVENT
MASSIVE G STAR
+605|6399|Birmingham, UK

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

You can kill mice with traps, use worms as bait for fish, and shoot deer with your gun.

But kittens are soooooooooooooooo kawaii ^_^
Kittens/cats are so much more intelligent than worms though.

Of course i wouldn't hurt anything
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

You can buy mice to feed a snake. You can impale worms on a rode to get fish. You can take a rifle and blow out the chest of a deer, bear, turkey. You can make mice traps and the snap the nekcs of mice. You can posion rabbits. You can set a bear trap and take off one of their legs.

But cats are off limits because they are cute. It's not protecting some kind of life or standard of life, it's that people find the cat's cute. Survival of the cutest.

Now if I were to work all damn day and go buy a cat so my wife or girlfriend can in the comfort of our home stomp out a kitten because that's our fetish who has any right to tell us that if we tape it we commited a crime?

We bought the kitten and it is our property.

Now consider at the same time many cultures sacerfice animals all the time in much more harsh ways.

What exactly makes protecting kittens so important?
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6738|Chicago, IL
worm's immune systems are too crude to feel pain, rodents are considered pests, and cause millions in property damage, you're supposed to eat the deer you kill, and maiming a bear is against the law.

What did kittens ever do to you?  if you're killing it for food, fine, if not, you're sick.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7007

DrunkFace wrote:

MacBeth you need help.
Love is the answer
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5649|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

You can buy mice to feed a snake. You can impale worms on a rode to get fish. You can take a rifle and blow out the chest of a deer, bear, turkey. You can make mice traps and the snap the nekcs of mice. You can posion rabbits. You can set a bear trap and take off one of their legs.

But cats are off limits because they are cute. It's not protecting some kind of life or standard of life, it's that people find the cat's cute. Survival of the cutest.

Now if I were to work all damn day and go buy a cat so my wife or girlfriend can in the comfort of our home stomp out a kitten because that's our fetish who has any right to tell us that if we tape it we commited a crime?

We bought the kitten and it is our property.

Now consider at the same time many cultures sacerfice animals all the time in much more harsh ways.

What exactly makes protecting kittens so important?
I understand what you are trying to say. If you rounded up all the mice in your neighborhood and shot them for fun people would accuse you of cruelty but if you left them to die in traps people wouldn't bat an eyelash. It comes down to intent and intent is a dangerous thing to try and prove. If you're killing animals for the sole purpose of creating snuff films designed to horrify the viewer then yes, that is enough to charge for cruelty. Same would go if you created a video blowing apart a deer with the cannon of a tank

While hunting is something that many people enjoy, it only crosses the line into malice if they leave the dead carcass to rot with no intention of using it themselves. But again, it's really difficult to know where to draw the line when there are shows on tv showing a dude up in a tree stand who is obviously well fed and is killing animals to make a living on tv.

It's a difficult question of morality which is why it is now in front of the Supreme Court. It's not as cut and dry as it would appear on the surface.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-10-05 14:37:16)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6912|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

You can buy mice to feed a snake. You can impale worms on a rode to get fish. You can take a rifle and blow out the chest of a deer, bear, turkey. You can make mice traps and the snap the nekcs of mice. You can posion rabbits. You can set a bear trap and take off one of their legs.

But cats are off limits because they are cute. It's not protecting some kind of life or standard of life, it's that people find the cat's cute. Survival of the cutest.

Now if I were to work all damn day and go buy a cat so my wife or girlfriend can in the comfort of our home stomp out a kitten because that's our fetish who has any right to tell us that if we tape it we commited a crime?

We bought the kitten and it is our property.

Now consider at the same time many cultures sacerfice animals all the time in much more harsh ways.

What exactly makes protecting kittens so important?
All those things you said have an end purpose. They're not just killing, hurting or harming those animals for senseless reasons. Well except for the hunting one, most hunters say they hunt for food and to "control the population" but really they just like to shoot and kill shit.

But anyway, buying an animal just so you can stomp on it is different for the most part. Doesn't really matter that it's a cat and it's cute and fuzzy for most people.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5877

Mekstizzle wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You can buy mice to feed a snake. You can impale worms on a rode to get fish. You can take a rifle and blow out the chest of a deer, bear, turkey. You can make mice traps and the snap the nekcs of mice. You can posion rabbits. You can set a bear trap and take off one of their legs.

But cats are off limits because they are cute. It's not protecting some kind of life or standard of life, it's that people find the cat's cute. Survival of the cutest.

Now if I were to work all damn day and go buy a cat so my wife or girlfriend can in the comfort of our home stomp out a kitten because that's our fetish who has any right to tell us that if we tape it we commited a crime?

We bought the kitten and it is our property.

Now consider at the same time many cultures sacerfice animals all the time in much more harsh ways.

What exactly makes protecting kittens so important?
All those things you said have an end purpose. They're not just killing, hurting or harming those animals for senseless reasons. Well except for the hunting one, most hunters say they hunt for food and to "control the population" but really they just like to shoot and kill shit.

But anyway, buying an animal just so you can stomp on it is different for the most part. Doesn't really matter that it's a cat and it's cute and fuzzy for most people.
Sexual gratification isn't a purpose? All of those things also have a pleasure part of just like the sexual gratification.

Most of the people in this thread believe in the "If it doesn't hurt anyone and I do it in my own home the government should fuck off" So since cats aren't citizens and are glorified property, how is this any different?
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6738|Chicago, IL

Macbeth wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You can buy mice to feed a snake. You can impale worms on a rode to get fish. You can take a rifle and blow out the chest of a deer, bear, turkey. You can make mice traps and the snap the nekcs of mice. You can posion rabbits. You can set a bear trap and take off one of their legs.

But cats are off limits because they are cute. It's not protecting some kind of life or standard of life, it's that people find the cat's cute. Survival of the cutest.

Now if I were to work all damn day and go buy a cat so my wife or girlfriend can in the comfort of our home stomp out a kitten because that's our fetish who has any right to tell us that if we tape it we commited a crime?

We bought the kitten and it is our property.

Now consider at the same time many cultures sacerfice animals all the time in much more harsh ways.

What exactly makes protecting kittens so important?
All those things you said have an end purpose. They're not just killing, hurting or harming those animals for senseless reasons. Well except for the hunting one, most hunters say they hunt for food and to "control the population" but really they just like to shoot and kill shit.

But anyway, buying an animal just so you can stomp on it is different for the most part. Doesn't really matter that it's a cat and it's cute and fuzzy for most people.
Sexual gratification isn't a purpose? All of those things also have a pleasure part of just like the sexual gratification.

Most of the people in this thread believe in the "If it doesn't hurt anyone and I do it in my own home the government should fuck off" So since cats aren't citizens and are glorified property, how is this any different?
Because where does it stop?  Can I blow up cows in my front yard?  Throw my dog in the fireplace when I'm sick of it?  It's all or nothing, and most people would rather pick nothing.

(and you don't have to deal with PETA)
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX

Macbeth wrote:

Now if I were to work all damn day and go buy a cat so my wife or girlfriend can in the comfort of our home stomp out a kitten because that's our fetish who has any right to tell us that if we tape it we commited a crime?
Society does.
If you don't want to be part of it you're free to leave - I recommend Somalia.
Fuck Israel

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