BF2S Forums New consumption tax proposed

Harmor wrote:

In California the state Democrats want to charge the State Sales tax on services, like when you pay for someone to do your taxes, or trim a tree, or get a haircut...+9.25-10.25% tax.

Cool, free 10% inflation of prices overnight. Sweet. That'll get people to spend more money! Or... people will trim their own trees, cut their own hair, and put even more people out of work. Even sweeter.

They take and take until there is nothing left.

Don't you guys already have this? I was in America several times and when I reached the till I found I had to fork out more money than specified because they didn't quote the full fucking price of products on the shelves. How is it much different to that? You won't notice the tax you're paying because you just come to accept the prices of products as they are. It's the least intrusive and obvious tax you can possibly bring in. I haven't a clue what the VAT rate here in Ireland is. It doesn't colour my spending in any way shape or form. Tax revenue has to come from somewhere. Having it come from your income is worse than from what you spend your money on. You are afforded more choice this way than with the income-garnered tax money.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-10-04 11:52:34)

JohnG@lt wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

A VAT and income tax have nothing to do with each other. There is no 'on top of' because they are completely different.

How are they completely different? If my taxes are 40% and the VAT is 10%... and I spend every penny I've earned for a year I pay 50% of my wages in taxes instead of 40%. Sure, if I save every penny I earn, my taxes do not increase, but how realistic is that?

A tax is a tax no matter what they call it, how they word it, or how they implement it. Consumption taxes are the bane of Capitalism. People spend less money, businesses make less money, people lose jobs, people spend even less money, more jobs are lost etc. To propose it during a recession is asinine.

Actually using your scenario, you go from 40% to 45.45%. But they are still different types of taxes. Its like saying property tax or car registration is on top of your income tax.

I can't comment on its implementation because a) your link is broken and b) I don't know the full details of the US tax system, but when they introduced the GST (VAT with a fancy name) here it removed about 35 hidden sales taxes and replaced it with 1 simple transparent tax.

Last edited by DrunkFace (2009-10-04 12:01:50)

Harmor wrote:

How does a VAT tax work exactly in Europe?  Right now when a merchant buys from another wholesaler they don't pay taxes.  Only the final 'product' pays taxes.

You have to have a special business license so you don't pay taxes on stuff bought from wholesalers.

Well there's a lad at work who doesn't have to pay VAT on supplies that he buys for his business so I would imagine it's the finished product only upon which VAT is applied. If ever I need any PC-related gear he can get it for me through his business VAT-free.

DrunkFace wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

A VAT and income tax have nothing to do with each other. There is no 'on top of' because they are completely different.

How are they completely different? If my taxes are 40% and the VAT is 10%... and I spend every penny I've earned for a year I pay 50% of my wages in taxes instead of 40%. Sure, if I save every penny I earn, my taxes do not increase, but how realistic is that?

A tax is a tax no matter what they call it, how they word it, or how they implement it. Consumption taxes are the bane of Capitalism. People spend less money, businesses make less money, people lose jobs, people spend even less money, more jobs are lost etc. To propose it during a recession is asinine.

Actually using your scenario, you go from 40% to 45.45%. But they are still different types of taxes. Its like saying property tax or car registration is on top of your income tax.

I can't comment on its implementation because a) your link is broken and b) I don't know the full details of the US tax system, but when they introduced the GST (VAT with a fancy name) here it removed about 35 hidden sales taxes and replaced it with 1 simple transparent tax.

Those are "on top" of income taxes. They are referred to as "marginal taxes" here...and when taken in totality, drive some people in the highest tax brackets' marginal tax rates (that would be all taxes taken into consideration) into the 70-odd percent range.

The difference in implementation here is that the VAT would likely be implemented on top of existing taxes, not in place of (as your GST was). It would be basically a federal sales tax, which doesn't exist right now, so there's nothing for it to displace.

American sales tax is so fucking confusing, they need to get rid of that and replace it with VAT.

Mekstizzle wrote:

I hate it when you see the price of something on the shelf but when you go to pay it, then they decide to add all the taxes and shit. Why can't they just advertise the price that you would pay on the till. So what if each state has its own taxes, what the hell does that have to do with the store not being able to show the post-tax price on the shelf?

For the same reason they price stuff at $8.99 or $9.99 etc. When you see a lower price you're more inclined to buy the product. If you're selling two products of roughly similar value, which will more often be purchased: The item listed at $8.99 or the item at $9.00?

Also, in a place like New York the sales tax isn't a whole number, it's 8.65% so if they listed it with the sales tax on the price of the item it would potentially be wrong if the person buys multiple items.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-10-06 07:01:52)

ruisleipa wrote:

I always thought VAT was paid only by the end user. Over here if you have a business and buy shit for your business you claim back the VAT you've paid from your final tax bill. Only the end user pays the VAT.

Yes that's right. Its payed on every transaction but it's not exponentiated.

@ G@lt, Here we used to have state sales taxes, on wholesalers, retailers, different amounts on different products and in different states. All were replaced with 1 tax rate for everything nationally, but the revenue is still the states.

Mekstizzle wrote:

I hate it when you see the price of something on the shelf but when you go to pay it, then they decide to add all the taxes and shit. Why can't they just advertise the price that you would pay on the till. So what if each state has its own taxes, what the hell does that have to do with the store not being able to show the post-tax price on the shelf?

???

Serious?

Wow.

Spark wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

I hate it when you see the price of something on the shelf but when you go to pay it, then they decide to add all the taxes and shit. Why can't they just advertise the price that you would pay on the till. So what if each state has its own taxes, what the hell does that have to do with the store not being able to show the post-tax price on the shelf?

???

Serious?

Wow.

When it comes to business and economics, I really don't know anything, so yeah. Also I've lived in a country where tax has always been included on the shelf price so the idea of till based sales tax is new to me, so cut some slack boldface.