lowing wrote:
RoosterCantrell wrote:
lowing wrote:
A good post and you make valid points that I actually agree with. However what I am saying is, we all ready pay enough for social services most of do not use. I say manage those funds better. Like ATG so eloquently exclaimed. "I am not your ATM"! My money is not OUR money!
That's where I disagree. My money isn't our money, but SOME of it is our money, if we want to live in a stable society.
I guess we could argue the proportions night and day, and yes definitely, it all could be mangaed better. But that will only happen when greed, selfishness, close-mindedness, and higher bi-partisan logic come around....... which is never.
The bottom line is, the current system doesn't work, is it so terrible to try something else, even if it is not an ideal situation for everybody? That's not an argument what I just said, just something to ponder in
either direction.
I already pay SOME of MY money to OUR social programs that I never use. You are saying that since it does not work, that the solution is to simply take MORE of MY money and make it OUR money. This is now stealing with a bow wrapped around it, and I am against it. There is such a thing as bleeding someone dry, to the point where you will get nothing.
You also speak of selfishness close-mindedness. Tell me what is more selfish and closed-minded. Working for a living and being responsible enough, ambitious enough and sacrifice enough to provide for yourself and your family, or to expect and simply force someone else's earnings from them to do it for you? By all means preach to me more about the selfish and closed-minded workers and earners and providers of society.
Explain to me again as to why the responsible people of society are the problem and not the leeches of society.
The real problem is, your endless string of excuses and acceptance of personal failure. Your attempt to blame everyone and anyone for personal failure EXCEPT the person who failed. Your attempt to subsidize and reward failure by punishing those who succeed (You call them selfish and close-minded) Taking away incentive to achieve by rewarding failure. This is the problem. Get out of my bank account already.
wow. I thought I had you locked into a reasonable debate. THis is why I don't post on here much, sensationalism and lack of keeping a calm demeanor. Unless you took my comments as an attack on you? I was speaking of close-mindedness, greed, etc. as a political fact, not who you are, Lowing.
I did not say that the workers were the problem. I was pretty clear on the idea of what a society needs, and never pointed to the hard workers of the USA as the problem. This whole black and white, yes or no attitude is predictable, effective at stonewalling a debate, and just plain easy.
You know I have no interest in rewarding failure nor does any "liberal" politician. I hardly think you are anywhere near being "bled dry" by programs that help others with your precious money. It's such a cop out to say it's "punishing those who succeed" like there is some lazy people's conspiracy to pass laws to fuck over hard working people.
Many people on here Lowing despise you. I disagree with you on damn near every topic you debate upon. But I do respect your opinion. I'm not about to start to kiss your ass, but I do know you are intelligent enough to base your debate on facts, these types of responses are so trite and useless. lol, c'mon.
Also, personal failure? by quitting a dead end job and going back to school? my argument is based on the general situation, started off with the idea that a guy, me, is working for a better life, and feel that it would be helpful to have insurance to cover me on the ass end, so when my education GETS me a better job, MY precious money can be taxed back into the system, where the process can repeat.
Personal Failure... please. I realize You too may have not meant that personally, and my own little story is the example I was leading my ideas on, that there arent JUST people out there who are loser ass failures, but useful people that just need a bit of help for a short time.
By your logic it seems like you are saying "I will not pay in to help people, because some of them will abuse it." You would have to be either the most uncharitable, selfish person, or a hypocrite. If that is not the case, anytime you ever donated or helped a charity, then you are smart enough to know, that somewhere, in those lines, someones gonna abuse your charity money, maybe a fraction of it, but someone will along that line. Same with Government programs. But because abuse happens, doesn't justify denying EVERYONE certain types of aid.
I know you are aware of this, but it's so much easier to label a valid argument as "a string of excuses" when there is a chance I may have a foot in the door of the argument.
Consider my ideas, that's all I ask. THAT is the problem, stubbornness. Not here on this topic, in this debate in the political ring. And if more people were to... loosen the fuck up, and stop sensationalizing, granted, on both sides, things would resolve much more smoothly. Well, maybe not, but at least alot of people could cut the bullshit.
So, saying "solution is to simply take MORE of MY money and make it OUR money". is a perfect example. I never said that, I never meant that, you know I never meant that, my whole post states that.
lol, I guess I was the fool to try to debate with the master. I could clearly define every damn letter of my post, and still, you'd find some silly ass way to distort what others say, or ignore whole sections of a person's post. I guess we're all guilty of that. But, my hats off to you sir, you are a difficult one.
