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2009-09-30 06:14:15
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6962|Canberra, AUS

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:


I see, so although I am not unsympathetic toward your situation, your position is still one of, I can not afford it, so you should be forced to buy it for me. Not a popular postion for those that already pay for their own and have their own problems to deal with, some even worse than yours.
Better have tax money going into the health care than invading random countries.

It's just retarded that people's lives get screwed over because of preexisting conditions.

Financially, yes it is better off to companies to handle medical decisions. Ethically, no.

Just take this for example, why do you think the people of countries with public health care praise it so well and are not protesting for more private options, while I see in the US there is a strong debate between the two sides. Obviously a change is necessary. America is the leader of the world, but shit they need to properly take care of their own people first. What happened to give me your hungry, your oppressed and your poor?

You have to consider the ethics of this lowing.
America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
what?

try that one again?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2009-09-30 06:17:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6939|USA

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


Better have tax money going into the health care than invading random countries.

It's just retarded that people's lives get screwed over because of preexisting conditions.

Financially, yes it is better off to companies to handle medical decisions. Ethically, no.

Just take this for example, why do you think the people of countries with public health care praise it so well and are not protesting for more private options, while I see in the US there is a strong debate between the two sides. Obviously a change is necessary. America is the leader of the world, but shit they need to properly take care of their own people first. What happened to give me your hungry, your oppressed and your poor?

You have to consider the ethics of this lowing.
America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
Not really. Mainly because World War 2 fucked over Europe morally and financially. American infrastructure didn't need rebuilding after the war as with most countries, and shit you guys have all the resources you need to sustain yourself.
and we rebuilt Europe for you as well. but hey, we are the losers
2009-09-30 06:18:40
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
Oh very funny.
France was the first Republic, England had the mother of parliaments, how long did it take the US to catch up and abolish slavery and segregation BTW?
Everything the US has done was done by Europe before.
The American Revolution and the enactment of the US Constitution predates the French Revolution.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 06:19:04
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6939|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
Oh very funny.
France was the first Republic, England had the mother of parliaments, how long did it take the US to catch up and abolish slavery and segregation BTW?
Everything the US has done was done by Europe before.
tell me why know one turns to France then, when help is needed.
2009-09-30 06:22:17
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:


America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
Not really. Mainly because World War 2 fucked over Europe morally and financially. American infrastructure didn't need rebuilding after the war as with most countries, and shit you guys have all the resources you need to sustain yourself.
and we rebuilt Europe for you as well. but hey, we are the losers
Never said America is shit. Just saying it is in the best interest, as a country to improve with certain policies. Fuck I trust US being the world police more than anyone else.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2009-09-30 06:23:48
Ticia
Member
+73|5623

lowing wrote:

America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
ROFLMAO
2009-09-30 06:24:10
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6962|Canberra, AUS
Honestly lowing? The arrogance to suggest 'we saved your asses therefore we are inherently better than you' is astounding.

I could mention lots of reasons why America is powerful none of which have anything to do with military might or being 'better' than anyone else.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2009-09-30 06:28:26
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
The American Revolution and the enactment of the US Constitution predates the French Revolution.
Good point.

lowing wrote:

tell me why know one turns to France then, when help is needed
Who turns to the US?
Fuck Israel
2009-09-30 06:31:13
Ticia
Member
+73|5623

Dilbert_X wrote:

The American Revolution and the enactment of the US Constitution predates the French Revolution.
Good point.

lowing wrote:

tell me why know one turns to France then, when help is needed
Who turns to the US?
The question should be why are the US always looking for someone to "help".
2009-09-30 06:32:56
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

America is the "leader of the world" because it did not follow the footsteps of the Europeans.
Oh very funny.
France was the first Republic, England had the mother of parliaments, how long did it take the US to catch up and abolish slavery and segregation BTW?
Everything the US has done was done by Europe before.
The American Revolution and the enactment of the US Constitution predates the French Revolution.
But a lot of ideas were inherited from Europe.

Not saying America doesn't have it's own ideas, but they just took the best ideas from a lot of other people too.
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2009-09-30 06:33:35
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Ticia wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The American Revolution and the enactment of the US Constitution predates the French Revolution.
Good point.

lowing wrote:

tell me why know one turns to France then, when help is needed
Who turns to the US?
The question should be why are the US always looking for someone to "help".
Fantastic question. I'd be more than happy if we stopped worrying about the rest of the world and turned our focus inwards for a few generations. But, it's the same reason reality tv and gossip magazines are the hottest sellers here; people can't stop sticking their nose into other peoples business and lives. It's a shame really.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 06:38:18
Ticia
Member
+73|5623

JohnG@lt wrote:

Fantastic question. I'd be more than happy if we stopped worrying about the rest of the world and turned our focus inwards for a few generations. But, it's the same reason reality tv and gossip magazines are the hottest sellers here; people can't stop sticking their nose into other peoples business and lives. It's a shame really.
You know it's not only that. Behind every war and conflict there is someone profiting from it, how powerful you let them be in America is your problem to deal with.
2009-09-30 06:38:20
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
The trouble is what is dressed up as US 'help' is just self-interest as often as not.
Same as the US only seems to give a toss about 'democracy' in resource rich nations.
Fuck Israel
2009-09-30 06:39:39
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


Oh very funny.
France was the first Republic, England had the mother of parliaments, how long did it take the US to catch up and abolish slavery and segregation BTW?
Everything the US has done was done by Europe before.
The American Revolution and the enactment of the US Constitution predates the French Revolution.
But a lot of ideas were inherited from Europe.

Not saying America doesn't have it's own ideas, but they just took the best ideas from a lot of other people too.
Absolutely. Most of the ideas were taken from English Philosophy and the Rights of Man. Bentham, Locke etc all contributed heavily to the ideas that this country were based on. This country was founded during the time of the Enlightenment and philosophy and science were as widely discussed as anything. We were not built on necessarily new ideas but I feel that people like Thomas Jefferson and John Adams took the very best of the ideas that were out there and turned them into a working government.

By the same token, the philosophers that the early Americans borrowed from were more than likely not original in their ideas, they were just the first to put pen to paper. There have been billions of lives lived since the Dawn of Man, it's quite difficult to have a truly original thought
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 06:40:44
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

The trouble is what is dressed up as US 'help' is just self-interest as often as not.
Same as the US only seems to give a toss about 'democracy' in resource rich nations.
Why would we 'help' if there was nothing in it for us? You want us to be altruists now? Ha!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 06:41:37
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
Don't call it help then.
Fuck Israel
2009-09-30 06:43:31
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The trouble is what is dressed up as US 'help' is just self-interest as often as not.
Same as the US only seems to give a toss about 'democracy' in resource rich nations.
Why would we 'help' if there was nothing in it for us? You want us to be altruists now? Ha!
"Operation Iraqi Freedom"
"Operation Enduring Freedom"
"Operation More Freedom"
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2009-09-30 06:45:09
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Don't call it help then.
I mean, we had no rational self interest in mind when we decided to 'help' in Bosnia, Kosovo and Somalia. But as I said, I prefer isolationism anyway.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 06:47:31
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The trouble is what is dressed up as US 'help' is just self-interest as often as not.
Same as the US only seems to give a toss about 'democracy' in resource rich nations.
Why would we 'help' if there was nothing in it for us? You want us to be altruists now? Ha!
"Operation Iraqi Freedom"
"Operation Enduring Freedom"
"Operation More Freedom"
Your point?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 06:51:44
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Don't call it help then.
I mean, we had no rational self interest in mind when we decided to 'help' in Bosnia, Kosovo and Somalia. But as I said, I prefer isolationism anyway.
Not saying everything US does was in self interest. Isolationism doesn't work... Think about it this way. If someone in your neighborhood's house caught on fire, would you call the fire department or go "meh". Even events that seem to have no effect on your nation, it may have an effect later on your country later on. That's why in my opinion you should always offer a hand to help others than to sit back and watch.

As Churchill once said "Evil prevails if good men do nothing."
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2009-09-30 06:54:50
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Don't call it help then.
I mean, we had no rational self interest in mind when we decided to 'help' in Bosnia, Kosovo and Somalia. But as I said, I prefer isolationism anyway.
Not saying everything US does was in self interest. Isolationism doesn't work... Think about it this way. If someone in your neighborhood's house caught on fire, would you call the fire department or go "meh". Even events that seem to have no effect on your nation, it may have an effect later on your country later on. That's why in my opinion you should always offer a hand to help others than to sit back and watch.

As Churchill once said "Evil prevails if good men do nothing."
We get spit on either way though. I'm an isolationist because I want a weak military. I don't like the fact that we have such a large military that our politicians can decide to invade other countries on a whim. In fact, I want the active duty military shrunk down to the bare minimum and have the line units replaced with reservists and national guard troops so politicians have to deal with pissed off constituents every time they try to send them overseas.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-09-30 07:12:02
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


I mean, we had no rational self interest in mind when we decided to 'help' in Bosnia, Kosovo and Somalia. But as I said, I prefer isolationism anyway.
Not saying everything US does was in self interest. Isolationism doesn't work... Think about it this way. If someone in your neighborhood's house caught on fire, would you call the fire department or go "meh". Even events that seem to have no effect on your nation, it may have an effect later on your country later on. That's why in my opinion you should always offer a hand to help others than to sit back and watch.

As Churchill once said "Evil prevails if good men do nothing."
We get spit on either way though. I'm an isolationist because I want a weak military. I don't like the fact that we have such a large military that our politicians can decide to invade other countries on a whim. In fact, I want the active duty military shrunk down to the bare minimum and have the line units replaced with reservists and national guard troops so politicians have to deal with pissed off constituents every time they try to send them overseas.
True the US doesn't need to maintain such a large military. A navy for day to day connectivity and an Army to protect mainland US. But remember, having US bases helps Americans in the long term by spheres of influence. Hell, Hajjis and Asians sure do love them some KFC and Big Macs.

US will get spit on no matter what they do and it should be expected. That is the beauty of America, you can say all the shit you want and still love the country. I find it extremely ignorant of people who hate America just because they're ruling the world. It is pure jealousy. Fuck I'd rather have America keeping the world in check instead of China or Russia.

America has a shitload of influence no matter what it does, it will have a ripple effect.
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2009-09-30 07:14:55
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
I'd rather have America keeping the world in check instead of China or Russia.
Its the unchecked US which is the problem.
Fuck Israel
2009-09-30 07:19:20
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'd rather have America keeping the world in check instead of China or Russia.
Its the unchecked US which is the problem.
US government itself has a strong checks and balances system.

Remember, its still better having US than anyone else. The American people have enough influence on their government to change their actions to a certain extent.

If you replace US with China... This is what would've happened when you question them about Iraq.

"What oil? Stupid guy. Why would we invade a desert country they have nothing stupid guy. We just want to help the decent people and liberate them from the bad religion ok man."

Still, US is better than other alternatives.
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2009-09-30 07:20:39
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

True the US doesn't need to maintain such a large military. A navy for day to day connectivity and an Army to protect mainland US. But remember, having US bases helps Americans in the long term by spheres of influence. Hell, Hajjis and Asians sure do love them some KFC and Big Macs.

US will get spit on no matter what they do and it should be expected. That is the beauty of America, you can say all the shit you want and still love the country. I find it extremely ignorant of people who hate America just because they're ruling the world. It is pure jealousy. Fuck I'd rather have America keeping the world in check instead of China or Russia.

America has a shitload of influence no matter what it does, it will have a ripple effect.
I appreciate that, I really do. Unfortunately the party currently in charge of our government takes the spitting and insults to heart instead of opinions like your own. When you try to be everyones friend you end up being their slave.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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