Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6224|Brisneyland

The Australian wrote:

CHINA early today vowed to reduce greenhouse gases by a "notable margin" by 2020 which, when coupled with expected aggressive emission cuts from India, could unlock global talks on climate change.

Speaking at a summit in New York, Chinese President Hu Jintao also promised a target of 15 per cent for renewable energy and to increase China's national forest coverage by 40 million hectares by 2020.

But Mr Hu also told the UN General Assembly that the cuts would be measured by units of gross domestic product, in line with China's concerns about preserving its rapid economic growth.
China was used as an excuse by Climate change deniers to continue to do little about reducing emissions. Now China ( and India) have come to the party to start significant reductions. This will put pressure on Prez Obama to meet promises he made regarding climate change.

Obama has promised to make progress in this area:

The Australian wrote:

Mr Obama said the US was doubling the generating capacity from wind and other renewable resources in three years, launching offshore wind energy projects and spending billions to capture carbon pollution from coal plants.
Now theres no excuse to not make progress in this area.
source
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6717
That's great if the Chinese follow through...?
Obama is a speechmaker... not a whole lot of substance unfortunately
It sounds great when he says it... but the next day he does something totally different...
Love is the answer
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
Details, details, details!
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6224|Brisneyland

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

That's great if the Chinese follow through...?
Obama is a speechmaker... not a whole lot of substance unfortunately
It sounds great when he says it... but the next day he does something totally different...
I think China will follow through, only problem is that since they havent given a definite figure for reduction, they give themselves a fair bit of "fudge factor". Still China has a way of getting what it wants  regardless of how many people they have to "remove" to get their goal. I really think they can do it.

As for Obama, this one is a big one for me. If he cant follow through on these promises, then I may start joining in with Anti-Obama threads as well
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
In any event the biggie is in December. In other news the National Party can go suck a fat one.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
BVC
Member
+325|6697
I can't help but think its lip service on China's part.  Still, would be good if they did.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6602|132 and Bush

"China vows to make big emissions cuts by 2020 "
Big deal, who isn't?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
TrueMusou
Member
+36|6162|United States Of Hamerica
Here's the thing about China.

If they really want to get it done...they will most definitely get it done. At this point in China's history, they care more about how the outside world perceives them than say....the Chinese people itself. They will cut the emissions by any means possible. That's one thing you have to admire about a communist government...efficiency.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
The Chinese aren't stupid, they know fossil fuels are causing environmental problems and won't last forever either.
They have the potential to leapfrog the rest of the world in technological solutions, I'll bet they do it.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6602|132 and Bush

I wouldn't hold my breathe... well, maybe if I was in Beijing.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6602|132 and Bush

Spark wrote:

Details, details, details!
Here are some of ours. Please list the Chinese plan when you find it.

"Mr Obama said the US was doubling the generating capacity from wind and other renewable resources in three years, launching offshore wind energy projects and spending billions to capture carbon pollution from coal

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act included more than $80 billion in clean energy investments that will jump-start our economy and build the clean energy jobs of tomorrow:"

"The US House of Representatives narrowly passed a climate bill in June to cut emissions 17per cent by 2020 from 2005 levels."
  • Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025.   
  • Implement an economy-wide cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050.   
  • Get 1 Million Plug-In Hybrid Cars on the Road by 2015.   
  • Establish a National Low Carbon Fuel Standard.   
  • Weatherize One Million Homes Annually.   
  •   $11 billion for a bigger, better, and smarter grid that will move renewable energy from the rural places it is produced to the cities where it is mostly used, as well as for 40 million smart meters to be deployed in American homes.   
  • $5 billion for low-income home weatherization projects.   
  • $4.5 billion to green federal buildings and cut our energy bill, saving taxpayers billions of dollars.   
  • $6.3 billion for state and local renewable energy and energy efficiency efforts.   
  • $600 million in green job training programs – $100 million to expand line worker training programs and $500 million for green workforce training.   
  • $2 billion in competitive grants to develop the next generation of batteries to store energy.

# Increasing, for the first time in more than a decade, the fuel economy standards for Model Year 2011 for cars and trucks so they will get better mileage, saving drivers money and spurring companies to develop more innovative products.
# The President issued a memorandum to the Department of Energy to implement more aggressive efficiency standards for common household appliances, like dishwashers and refrigerators. Through this step, over the next three decades, we’ll save twice the amount of energy produced by all the coal-fired power plants in America in any given year.
# Supporting the first steps of a legally-binding treaty to reduce mercury emissions worldwide.
# On Earth Day 2009, the President unveiled a program to develop the renewable energy projects on the waters of our Outer Continental Shelf that produce electricity from wind, wave, and ocean currents. These regulations will enable, for the first time ever, the nation to tap into our ocean’s vast sustainable resources to generate clean energy in an environmentally sound and safe manner.

    *  Creating new Jobs in the Clean Energy Economy. Drive the development of new, green jobs that pay well and cannot be outsourced.
    * Investing in the Next Generation of Energy Technologies. Invest $150 billion over ten years in energy research and development to transition to a clean energy economy.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/energy … vironment/
We must take immediate action to reduce the carbon pollution that threatens our climate and sustains our dependence on fossil fuels. We have had limits in place on pollutants like sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, and other harmful emissions for some time.  After decades of inaction, we will finally close the carbon pollution loophole by limiting the amount of carbon polluters are allowed to pump into the atmosphere.

    * Closing the Carbon Loophole. By stemming carbon pollution through a market-based cap, we can address in a systematic way all the energy challenges that we face: curbing our dependence on foreign oil, reducing our use of fossil fuels, and promoting new industries right here in America.
    * Protecting American Consumers. Revenues generated by closing the carbon loophole will be returned to the people, especially vulnerable families, communities, and businesses.
    * Promoting U.S. Competitiveness. Ensure a level playing field for domestic manufacturing and secure significant actions to combat climate change by our trading partners
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS

Kmarion wrote:

"China vows to make big emissions cuts by 2020 "
Big deal, who isn't?
Yeah. Start getting excited when they start talking about what "big" actually means. And how they'll do it.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
$11 billion for a bigger, better, and smarter grid that will move renewable energy from the rural places it is produced to the cities where it is mostly used, as well as for 40 million smart meters to be deployed in American homes.
This I like.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6717

Spark wrote:

$11 billion for a bigger, better, and smarter grid that will move renewable energy from the rural places it is produced to the cities where it is mostly used, as well as for 40 million smart meters to be deployed in American homes.
This I like.
smart meters to do what?   Tell us when we can have our lights on?  Or if we should turn down the heat on a cold night?
and does the govt decide if we can sell our house...if it's not eco perfect according to them?   More empty rhetoric from the One... 
What he meant to say is... more govt control over every aspect of our lives... for our own good... regardless of public sentiment.

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-09-26 02:06:53)

Love is the answer
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Spark wrote:

$11 billion for a bigger, better, and smarter grid that will move renewable energy from the rural places it is produced to the cities where it is mostly used, as well as for 40 million smart meters to be deployed in American homes.
This I like.
smart meters to do what?   Tell us when we can have our lights on?  Or if we should turn down the heat on a cold night?
and does the govt decide if we can sell our house...if it's not eco perfect according to them?   More empty rhetoric from the One... 
What he meant to say is... more govt control over every aspect of our lives... for our own good... regardless of public sentiment.
That is a pretty stupid thing to say if you don't know what a smart meter is. It has fuckall to do with government control and saying it is - that comes under the category of gross idiocy.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6224|Brisneyland
@ Tuf Catbox.
mate, we have smart meters over here. All they do is tell the home owner how much power is being used at any given time. That way you can be on the couch watching TV and keeping track of how much power the house is consuming. It really comes in handy when you think you are not using any significant power, but the meter says you may be. That way you can track which appliance is on, and also which appliances use the most energy. I think some can even tell the home owner what is the best time of day to use more power, because it is off peak ( cheaper power).

Unless your meters are different from ours ( I dont think they will be) then I doubt it is a govt control thing. Its just a good way to save money on your power bill.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS

Burwhale wrote:

@ Tuf Catbox.
mate, we have smart meters over here. All they do is tell the home owner how much power is being used at any given time. That way you can be on the couch watching TV and keeping track of how much power the house is consuming. It really comes in handy when you think you are not using any significant power, but the meter says you may be. That way you can track which appliance is on, and also which appliances use the most energy. I think some can even tell the home owner what is the best time of day to use more power, because it is off peak ( cheaper power).

Unless your meters are different from ours ( I dont think they will be) then I doubt it is a govt control thing. Its just a good way to save money on your power bill.
They are the same.

California is the main place where they're being tried out.

It could be a very good way to end the current wastefulness of the grid system that currently is in place.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6224|Brisneyland
Spark, do you know where I can find out more about the smarter grid? I have heard about it but would like to know more.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
Hot Flat and Crowded (Thomas Friedman) is where I found out about it first, although I do think he is being a liiiiiiiiiiitle exaggerated in his praise for it. (he calls it an 'energy internet')

In terms of links, though:

http://ge.ecomagination.com/smartgrid/#/smart_meters (ignore the spruiks)
http://www.oe.energy.gov/smartgrid.htm
http://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric … t-grid.asp
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6224|Brisneyland

Kmarion wrote:

"China vows to make big emissions cuts by 2020 "
Big deal, who isn't?
Until now, the Chinese, thats why its  a big deal.

I am not going to lie to you, the press release was light on details. But looking into it I found. 15% total renewables by 2020. 8% of those from wind power. Some predictions I have found say that power from wind may be much more. Theres also big hydroelectric schemes happening now ( and more planned). Plans were afoot to replant very large areas of forests ( the size of Norway).

Emissions will be reduced per dollar of GDP. More GDP = more money for reductions.

China has a lot to lose from climate change. A large amount of their drinking water comes from snow melts, which is decreasing. Also there are many low lying areas that would be affected by rising sea levels.

On an economic level, it would mean that they wouldnt have to keep buying coal off those pesky Aussies, and could get a better level of energy security.
Lai
Member
+186|6152

Kmarion wrote:

"China vows to make big emissions cuts by 2020 "
Big deal, who isn't?
2020, by then they have conquered the wuld?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6583|SE London

Kmarion wrote:

Spark wrote:

Details, details, details!
Here are some of ours. Please list the Chinese plan when you find it.
The Chinese plan hasn't been put together yet. The Chinese want a plan where emissions are linked to GDP. Perhaps after Copenhagen we will see some details begin to get ironed out.

Looking at the recent behaviour of the Chinese government it is hard to doubt their commitment to renewable energy sources (just look at their economic stimulus package, a decent chunk of which was dedicated to investment in renewables) and it is hard to doubt they have the stomach to actually get this stuff done. The biggest obstacle to effective adoption of renewable energy is the public, in China that is far less of a factor.
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5401
i vow to make emissions cuts also....lol.  lets all vow stuff.  its cool.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6602|132 and Bush

Burwhale wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

"China vows to make big emissions cuts by 2020 "
Big deal, who isn't?
Until now, the Chinese, thats why its  a big deal.

I am not going to lie to you, the press release was light on details. But looking into it I found. 15% total renewables by 2020. 8% of those from wind power. Some predictions I have found say that power from wind may be much more. Theres also big hydroelectric schemes happening now ( and more planned). Plans were afoot to replant very large areas of forests ( the size of Norway).

Emissions will be reduced per dollar of GDP. More GDP = more money for reductions.

China has a lot to lose from climate change. A large amount of their drinking water comes from snow melts, which is decreasing. Also there are many low lying areas that would be affected by rising sea levels.

On an economic level, it would mean that they wouldnt have to keep buying coal off those pesky Aussies, and could get a better level of energy security.
The Chinese (finally) making an incredibly ambiguous statement about getting on board is not a big deal.

When I see the details of an actual plan along with some implementation then I might give them an addboy. Till then .. woop dee doo.

Red Forman wrote:

i vow to make emissions cuts also....lol.  lets all vow stuff.  its cool.
Repeat offenders almost always vow to change don't they?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6446|The Land of Scott Walker
Improvement by 2020 could be seeing to the end of the block in Beijing without the burning fog.

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