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2006-04-09 23:44:11
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6916|Canberra, AUS
I, personally, don't believe that the 'Apocalypse' is going to happen. Not going over the contradictions (though there are many), but it just doesn't seem credible.

Did Jesus ever say anything about it? No.

How did it get 'revealed'? Through a dream.

Odd. I could easily have a dream like this. And it'd seem very real too. (once I had a dream in which I end up dead. And I wake up, and I'm like Holy Fuck! I'm alive!)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-04-09 23:55:00
Not Entirely Sane
Member
+6|6902|Just Outside Seattle

JaMDuDe wrote:

You dont need to believe the Truth if you dont want to. God gave you a choice and you can blow your only chance if that is what you want. But, Christianity is the oldest and has the most proof of God.
Buddhism, Judaism, and Hinduism are all religions older than Christianity.

edited to add bold text.

Last edited by Not Entirely Sane (2006-04-09 23:55:58)

2006-04-10 05:58:00
siciliano732
Member
+202|6890|New York

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i didnt miss any post...it was established that according to christian dogma, everyone is born with sin, and then you go off on your sinful world blah blah blah and go back to god being great.  Your personal opinions contradict your religious doctrine.  And then you went off about judas betraying jesus 3 times when the bibles says it was Peter, I called you out on that.  Apparently you must not read your bible enough to bring fuel to this argument.
hench im not perfect....im not a bible scholar....you want my opinions i give them to you, i am not here bashing on yours....so you sound worse than me....RELAX
2006-04-10 05:59:59
siciliano732
Member
+202|6890|New York

Spark wrote:

I, personally, don't believe that the 'Apocalypse' is going to happen. Not going over the contradictions (though there are many), but it just doesn't seem credible.

Did Jesus ever say anything about it? No.

How did it get 'revealed'? Through a dream.

Odd. I could easily have a dream like this. And it'd seem very real too. (once I had a dream in which I end up dead. And I wake up, and I'm like Holy Fuck! I'm alive!)
The Bible speaks of Christ's second coming and Christ also spoke of it....secondly, Revelation speaks of the apocalypse and Christs second coming and all the events leading up to it which are happening according to proficy
2006-04-10 06:19:57
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7019

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

isnt jesus rising from the dead reincarnation
It is more of an incarnation. 

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

siciliano732 wrote:

how is that false...because you believe its false, because you dont want to believe that an all powerful being created everything, or are you the only person who has proof it is false?
If you have ready my post you would have seen where I said I believe portions of the Bible to be flat out false, and this is one of them.  I've read the arguments of people like you that debate the accuracy of scientific dating methods, as well as those on the science side; I would tend to find the scientific side more believable.  You may ask why, and the answer is simple.  I hardly think that thousands of scientist have, for more than 150 years, have been out to prove Genesis wrong as their sole reason behind their dating techniques.  Religion on the other hand has much to lose, as it calls the written word of the Bible into question, and some simply don't want that door opened ever, as they feel it could lead to other aspects of the Bible being questioned, and to do so is unacceptable.
There are scientists on both sides.  It's not scientists on one side and just Christians arguing with them on the other. 
You choose the side that agrees with your lifestyle.  Why?  Simple, you have much to lose when you realize that your entire life was based on a lie.

JaMDuDe wrote:

God gives most people a chance to choose him or not. For the ones who dont get a chance i believe he judges them on whether or not there a good person. Being a christian is not a free pass to do whatever you want for life. You still get punished for doing bad things.
Read Romans.

Last edited by wannabe_tank_whore (2006-04-10 06:29:09)

2006-04-10 06:39:33
raz
Member
+22|6905|England, UK

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

raz wrote:

I was brought up as catholic/christian.

All religions are bullshit.. We make em' to suite ourselves and give us hope.

On the down side, they have caused and reasoned war in the past.

There's up's and downs to everything.
Even if religion was nonexistant, humans would have had other excuses for declaring war on eachother. Conflicting economies, 'elbow-room,' and desire for regional/waterway control, for a few examples. But even in "religious wars," religion was usually a convenient veneer to hide the true motives of tyrants and politicians.
Ofcourse there is still going to be war. ..but religion have give REASON for it, gnereally speaking in older wars, not so much today. If there was no religion, there would be far less war history to study.
2006-04-10 07:13:19
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7019

raz wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

raz wrote:

I was brought up as catholic/christian.

All religions are bullshit.. We make em' to suite ourselves and give us hope.

On the down side, they have caused and reasoned war in the past.

There's up's and downs to everything.
Even if religion was nonexistant, humans would have had other excuses for declaring war on eachother. Conflicting economies, 'elbow-room,' and desire for regional/waterway control, for a few examples. But even in "religious wars," religion was usually a convenient veneer to hide the true motives of tyrants and politicians.
Ofcourse there is still going to be war. ..but religion have give REASON for it, gnereally speaking in older wars, not so much today. If there was no religion, there would be far less war history to study.
Yes of course!  I remember Hitler attacking France because they were despicable atheists.  I remember Napoleon conquering because he hated all those opposed to his religion.  I remember the Greeks destroying Troy because zeus demanded it.  I remember Romans taking over most of Europe because the gods demanded it.  Same for Alexander the Great.  And those damn "Mongols keep attacking my chity wall".
2006-04-10 07:22:29
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6885

siciliano732 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i didnt miss any post...it was established that according to christian dogma, everyone is born with sin, and then you go off on your sinful world blah blah blah and go back to god being great.  Your personal opinions contradict your religious doctrine.  And then you went off about judas betraying jesus 3 times when the bibles says it was Peter, I called you out on that.  Apparently you must not read your bible enough to bring fuel to this argument.
hench im not perfect....im not a bible scholar....you want my opinions i give them to you, i am not here bashing on yours....so you sound worse than me....RELAX
Please, Please show me a post where I bashed your opinions.
2006-04-10 07:27:08
siciliano732
Member
+202|6890|New York
opinion or not?
2006-04-10 07:52:35
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6976|California

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

And those damn "Mongols keep attacking my chity wall".
Lol, welcome to Chity wok.

That was the funniest South park ever.
2006-04-10 08:58:36
raz
Member
+22|6905|England, UK

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

raz wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:


Even if religion was nonexistant, humans would have had other excuses for declaring war on eachother. Conflicting economies, 'elbow-room,' and desire for regional/waterway control, for a few examples. But even in "religious wars," religion was usually a convenient veneer to hide the true motives of tyrants and politicians.
Ofcourse there is still going to be war. ..but religion have give REASON for it, gnereally speaking in older wars, not so much today. If there was no religion, there would be far less war history to study.
Yes of course!  I remember Hitler attacking France because they were despicable atheists.  I remember Napoleon conquering because he hated all those opposed to his religion.  I remember the Greeks destroying Troy because zeus demanded it.  I remember Romans taking over most of Europe because the gods demanded it.  Same for Alexander the Great.  And those damn "Mongols keep attacking my chity wall".
Nice sarcasm.. I said it HAS caused many wars.. and i said wars TODAY arn't based on religion.. becaused religion is DIEING. You should learn more on medieval war my friend, it's based and caused by religion and land. You clearly know shit about History. Religion gives people the comfortable feeling in war to FIGHT and that someone is there to watch over them and take care.

This is one of the reasons we created it.
2006-04-10 09:20:49
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7019

Spark wrote:

I, personally, don't believe that the 'Apocalypse' is going to happen. Not going over the contradictions (though there are many), but it just doesn't seem credible.

Did Jesus ever say anything about it? No.

How did it get 'revealed'? Through a dream.

Odd. I could easily have a dream like this. And it'd seem very real too. (once I had a dream in which I end up dead. And I wake up, and I'm like Holy Fuck! I'm alive!)
Jesus said a lot about the end times. And some things are coming true. Dont forget that prophets knew about jesus coming hundreds of years before he came. Thats not just what i think, its a proven fact.

heres something from mathew 24:4-8 about what jesus said. "Jesus answered:"Watch out that no one decieves you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will decieve many. You will here of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end it still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kindom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."

Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-04-10 09:21:45)

2006-04-10 11:12:24
Vic42
Member
+2|6964|Sacramento, California

JaMDuDe wrote:

. . . Dont forget that prophets knew about jesus coming hundreds of years before he came. Thats not just what i think, its a proven fact.
You think that is a fact because you have unquestioningly accepted what you have been told.

JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES:

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but the original sources say that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

You say "Thats not just what i think, its a proven fact". The facts are exactly opposite of what you were taught.
2006-04-10 11:40:08
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7019

Vic42 wrote:

You think that is a fact because you have unquestioningly accepted what you have been told.
It seems as if you have.  Examples will follow.

Vic42 wrote:

JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES:

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … version=31
No temple mentioned in those verses.  You 'have unquestioningly accepted what you have been told' about this. 

Vic42 wrote:

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=31;
And today Israel no longer exists and Jews are still scattered about the lands.  Oh wait!  They do have a state!!

Vic42 wrote:

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=31;
It is considered a lie when the truth is withheld in a court of law.  "2 In the last days" sets these verses.

Vic42 wrote:

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
Yes the 2nd Coming would be accurate for this verse.  As it is written, "Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear."

Vic42 wrote:

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but the original sources say that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
Can you show me where is says "that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists."  Thanks, much appreciated. 

Vic42 wrote:

You say "Thats not just what i think, its a proven fact". The facts are exactly opposite of what you were taught.
Good try... don't believe everything you copy and paste.

Last edited by wannabe_tank_whore (2006-04-10 11:42:23)

2006-04-10 11:41:50
siciliano732
Member
+202|6890|New York
some of you take bits and pieces of what you hear and see and piece it together as one thing and tell yourself its real....and it is ignorance to not see....

...seek and you shall find
2006-04-10 12:03:24
raz
Member
+22|6905|England, UK
I seriously can't get over how many people this bullshit religion that we have created. Once i was old enough to realise there was other religions, not just Christianity.. that was enough for me to realise it all bullshit.. It's so silly to be even be discussing God's and all that shit, we know what's outside our planet.. There's no heaven or any of that shit..

In this day in age we should be more thinking alon the lines of are we some kind of experiment.. is there other lif e outside our planet, are we bacteria on somebody elses fingernail. Not all  this crap about God says there world is made then it is.. rofl :S

I do believe there isn't just us in the univeres as forms of intelligent life. There are way more planets than there are grains of sand on earth, so the chances are that there planets like ours that life can excist, nm other life forms that live in different conditions..
2006-04-10 12:20:32
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|7019

raz wrote:

I seriously can't get over how many people this bullshit religion that we have created. Once i was old enough to realise there was other religions, not just Christianity.. that was enough for me to realise it all bullshit.. It's so silly to be even be discussing God's and all that shit, we know what's outside our planet.. There's no heaven or any of that shit..

In this day in age we should be more thinking alon the lines of are we some kind of experiment.. is there other lif e outside our planet, are we bacteria on somebody elses fingernail. Not all  this crap about God says there world is made then it is.. rofl :S

I do believe there isn't just us in the univeres as forms of intelligent life. There are way more planets than there are grains of sand on earth, so the chances are that there planets like ours that life can excist, nm other life forms that live in different conditions..
So, if I were to give you a book on proper grammar would you stop writing in English because once you realize that you are not typing correctly you should, by your logic, stop writing/talking/typing in English.

Have you see aliens?  They again, by your logic, there shouldn't be aliens.  And who said heaven was in outer space? Does that mean Hell is in the Earth's core? 

List those planets here.  Thanks.
2006-04-10 12:51:24
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7019
Personally raz if u were raised as a catholic i wouldnt blame you. All the hail marry stuff and conffesions and all that stuff just looks crazy. Especially the" Marry appeared on my cheese sandwich " stuff and the marching around in big robes. I think that the centuries after Jesus came people wanted more answers so they wrote them and started to follow them. The bible gave us what we NEEDED to know not everything we wanted to know. Then if u look around and see all these bogus religions it would look like religion is just something that people made up for comfort. This is just my opinion.
2006-04-10 17:26:07
siciliano732
Member
+202|6890|New York
if you want to see a real God....truly and whole heartedly seek him, confess your sins and ask him to come into your heart and mean it....and see if you dont feel a change.....i guarentee if you do everything with an open heart and allow Christ to work in you....you will see its not a bunch of crap....the problem is you fail to see and choose not to see....thats it....bottom line....

....we are not to fully know and understand God, our peanut size brains are not able to comprehend God, Heaven, Hell, The Trinity, and all its glory....we arent...so stop trying to find meaning in everything and instead accept it, and have FAITH
2006-04-10 17:40:50
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6935|San Francisco
As I said much much earlier...the concept of god is the death of rational thought/freethinking.  You can believe in a god, but attributing everything you don't understand to faith and absolute blind acceptance is the path to total ignorance.  Especially when it is organized, as then the followers will listen to the people who claim to "speak directly with god" and will just start layering level upon level of control/dogmatic law to gain power.  All you have to do is sample the ideologies from Every religion and not just accept one train of thought...take said ideologies and form your OWN understanding of it, but don't tag it as being higher than anyone else's.  Then you can discuss it at length with your peers and so goes the act of philosophizing.

Personally, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, as I have just as much proof the He exists as anyone else has proof of christ and a god.  You all have not been Touched by His Noodly Appendage yet, but he will see that the Truth of the Pastafarians will spread in order to combat the lack of personal thinking in the majority of today's religions.  RAmen.
2006-04-10 17:55:33
raz
Member
+22|6905|England, UK

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

raz wrote:

I seriously can't get over how many people this bullshit religion that we have created. Once i was old enough to realise there was other religions, not just Christianity.. that was enough for me to realise it all bullshit.. It's so silly to be even be discussing God's and all that shit, we know what's outside our planet.. There's no heaven or any of that shit..

In this day in age we should be more thinking alon the lines of are we some kind of experiment.. is there other lif e outside our planet, are we bacteria on somebody elses fingernail. Not all  this crap about God says there world is made then it is.. rofl :S

I do believe there isn't just us in the univeres as forms of intelligent life. There are way more planets than there are grains of sand on earth, so the chances are that there planets like ours that life can excist, nm other life forms that live in different conditions..
So, if I were to give you a book on proper grammar would you stop writing in English because once you realize that you are not typing correctly you should, by your logic, stop writing/talking/typing in English.

Have you see aliens?  They again, by your logic, there shouldn't be aliens.  And who said heaven was in outer space? Does that mean Hell is in the Earth's core? 

List those planets here.  Thanks.
What are you talking about? The book was written by US (humans).. Only trust yourself and your mind.. Most things we say are bullshit.. All that we are is a body that a mind that can think and create things, adapt, and improve. Life is about surviving, that's it. We said there would be no coloured tv, the moon gets eaten.. the earth is rectangle/square.. We know NOTHING.. so all this religion shit is what weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee have created.. We have been on EARTH alone about a minute in comparison to other living things in 24 hours..

I didn't say there WAS aliens.. but until given 99% evidence, you should be open minded to other things.. I'm not saying for one minute that i KNOW there are no God's, but I'm saying it's highly unlikey.

You cannot prove ANYTHING, you can only give more evidence than the other, which controls our beliefs.

All this shit we're speakin of now is bullshit as opposed to what we will know in a thousand years.. Knowledge is knowing that you know NOTHING.
2006-04-10 18:19:54
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7019
The fact is life is very short. Why would you take any chance at all at not knowing where your gona go when u die? I know im going to heaven. If you guys are right im just gona die and its over. Im either goin to paradise or not going anywhere. Are you really gona gamble with your life just because u think your smart enough think there is no God. If u want to side with the incomplete set of fossils that prove we are monkeys that evolved go ahead. You explain how "normal people" like me and you knew Jesus was gona come hundreds of years before he came and fullfilled the things they said he would.

Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-04-10 18:22:02)

2006-04-10 19:06:09
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6885
allah ackbar
2006-04-10 19:42:02
chrnoicle
Member
+23|6846|Canada
FEATUREd post this
2006-04-10 20:03:51
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|7019

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

allah ackbar
the Quran says christians go to heaven if they do good ^^  Christianity is the smart way to know where your going when you die. Even though i dont believe the Quran.

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