Women in combat roles.

2009-09-09 02:52:23

#1

Little BaBy JESUS: m8; +394|6436|'straya

At the moment in Australia, there are certain parliamentary figures calling for Women to be allowed in combat roles in the Australian Defence Force. This is mainly being pushed in order to increase recruiting numbers and to try and rid the military of the 'boys club' ideas. Women make up only roughly 13% of the Australian Defence Force. Currently they are allowed to participate in front-line duties, however, they are only permitted in non combat roles.

WOMEN should be able to serve in all frontline combat units of the Australian Defence Force, including the SAS and commando units, under a bold plan that could avert a looming recruitment crisis.

The push by the Minister for Defence Personnel and Science, Greg Combet, would remove gender altogether as a criterion for selection for specialised categories of military service.

The Rudd Government wants to lift the proportion of women serving in the defence force from the current level of 13 per cent, as demographic pressures bear down on defence force recruitment over the next decade

So what is your take on women in the military. I know there are many members/ex-members of various military's on this site so I would like your opinions as you guys know what it is truly like. I know that there are several countries such as Israel, Canada and New Zealand that already employ females in combat roles. However, personally, I think the current set up should remain. Women should be allowed in any role in the military except combat roles. Maybe it is just a chauvinist side of me, but I feel that it could create many problems. The emotional side may have a large impact, as the death/capture of a female is generally taken a lot harder, especially if male soldiers have "connections" with captured or killed females. Also the practical side, the military effectively having to police their own force more carefully to ensure nothing happens, and also captured women may often be raped etc.

Opinions please.
Source:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26 … 21,00.html

2009-09-09 02:57:36

#2

Hakei: Banned; +295|6283

Agree, Soldiers would be more inclined to risk their lives for a woman they didn't know than a man they did.

2009-09-09 03:05:12

#3

Little BaBy JESUS: m8; +394|6436|'straya

Yeah, also guys act different around chicks all the time. Whether they fully realise it or not. Also, do you think its possible that the idea of combat might turn some females away instead of drawing more in?

2009-09-09 03:10:43

#4

SEREVENT: MASSIVE G STAR; +605|6395|Birmingham, UK

Well if women don't like the idea of combat don't join anything that means combat...

Personally i think it should stay the same, because, like you said if a woman is killed there will be more outrage...

2009-09-09 03:11:48

#5

tazz.: oz.; +1,339|6462|Sydney | ♥

If chicks wanna put themselves on the BF, then whatever.....

Aslong as they like all the men asking for a root cause they havnt had any in months....

^{everything i write is a ramble and should not be taken seriously.... _{seriously. ♥}}

2009-09-09 03:20:56

#6

RavyGravy: Son.; +617|6693|NSW, Australia

tazz. wrote:
If chicks wanna put themselves on the BF, then whatever.....

Aslong as they like all the men asking for a root cause they havnt had any in months....

who says they are gonna ask.

im for it staying the same.

2009-09-09 03:22:28

#7

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7097|Nårvei

Experts claim that the psychological effect for male soldiers seeing a mutilated female body on the battlefield is just to much to cope with ... you should prolly ask members of the Israeli army, they have women with combat experience I believe ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-09-09 04:24:04

#8

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6787|so randum

Varegg wrote:
Experts claim that the psychological effect for male soldiers seeing a mutilated female body on the battlefield is just to much to cope with ... you should prolly ask members of the Israeli army, they have women with combat experience I believe ...

I heard something similar. And theres other positions in the military (fast jet) for example that sometimes they physically can't do.

Positive discrimination ftl.

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2009-09-09 04:34:15

#9

Little BaBy JESUS: m8; +394|6436|'straya

I also find it interesting that Women have lower fitness standards to get into the ADF. With all this equality talk, shouldn't it be there same? Now I know that sterotypically women can't do as many push-ups, run as far etc etc. But still they should have to meet exactly the same requirements as the men in my opinion.

Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2009-09-09 04:50:59)

2009-09-09 04:34:51

#10

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7003

No...

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2009-09-09 05:10:59

#11

KuSTaV: noice; +947|6799|Gold Coast

Yeah, the ADF is now really anal on fraternisation and that now, so if you've got some freaking hot chick in your section I can only guess what might happen, since, well, (in context of deployment) all that time out there alone around a few other guys? The next thing will be condoms handed out, lol.

But I agree with the statement by Stuart Robert (its on www.ninemsn.com, I think. He also came to my school to give a talk, was awesome), going on about the physical aspects that they'll have to face, and that Australia shouldnt need to employ women in the frontline because we're not at risk like Israel is.

noice

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2009-09-09 05:30:45

#12

Stubbee: Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts; +223|7030|Reality

Love all these answers from you 'modern males'. A lot of your arguments reminds me of the arguments made 60 years ago against the integration of blacks in to combat roles. Just as silly now as then.

If a person wants to server their country on the front lines, it should not matter where their reproductive organs are located.

The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'

2009-09-09 06:16:22

#13

13rin: Member; +977|6766

Women have historically all ready been fighting on the battlefield.

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2009-09-09 06:20:34

#14

-CARNIFEX-[LOC]: Da Blooze; +111|6941

Stubbee wrote:
Love all these answers from you 'modern males'. A lot of your arguments reminds me of the arguments made 60 years ago against the integration of blacks in to combat roles. Just as silly now as then.

If a person wants to server their country on the front lines, it should not matter where their reproductive organs are located.

I concur, so long as they meet the physical requirements to do so. I disagree with making requirements significantly lower for women based on their natural tendency to have less upper body strength, etc. Maybe set it at 90% of what the men do, but it still needs to essentially be about the same.

There are good reasons to have physical requirements to be soldiers, firemen, etc. You have a job that is potentially deadly, and may need to be able to carry wounded, sprint with heavy loads, etc., so if you want to see real combat, you need to be certain you have the physical capabilities to do all of this.

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2009-09-09 11:09:59

#15

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6698|'Murka

From an instinctual level, it shouldn't happen. You can kill off the majority of the men and still have the society/group continue. The same cannot be said if the majority of the women are killed off.

However, we're a bit beyond that as a species...but it doesn't mean that the instinct doesn't still come into play.

If they want to serve in combat roles, they need to pass the exact same standards as the men. Period.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-09-09 11:15:11

#16

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6855|Mountains of NC

No .

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2009-09-09 11:21:34

#17

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6510|Escea

FEOS wrote:
If they want to serve in combat roles, they need to pass the exact same standards as the men. Period.

This, equality in all aspects if they want to serve.

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2009-09-09 11:21:49)

2009-09-09 13:22:48

#18

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|7002|US

Let them serve.
The military should have equal physical standards for both sexes. We are talking about combat capability. I don't care if you are a man or a woman, you need to be able to pull your buddy out of that destroyed truck!

2009-09-09 13:30:39

#19

Lai: Member; +186|6438

IMO women should be allowed in active combat roles, but never conscripted. Personally, I would have issues with fighting against a woman or have one fighting "for" me, but I wouldn't dare deny her her right to do so. I would never even so much as ask her to fight though. Physically I think most of the old arguments have fallen down anyway in this era of button pressing and lightweigth automatic weapons.

The issue of "rape" is a serious one, but in essence that's not a problem "caused" by female participation in active combat roles. It simply can't be that way that we don't allow women in the military because our male soldiers haven't be tought proper discipline. Regarding rape of female POW's,.. we have conventions for that. They'll probably fail utterly, but the same goes for male POW's who are tortured and/or raped all the same. It would be a risk to consider for every woman who chooses to serve on the front line.

Varegg wrote:
Experts claim that the psychological effect for male soldiers seeing a mutilated female body on the battlefield is just to much to cope with ... you should prolly ask members of the Israeli army, they have women with combat experience I believe ...

But from a practical perspective,.. they'll fight thrice as hard.

2009-09-09 14:03:48

#20

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5645|London, England

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
At the moment in Australia, there are certain parliamentary figures calling for Women to be allowed in combat roles in the Australian Defence Force. This is mainly being pushed in order to increase recruiting numbers and to try and rid the military of the 'boys club' ideas. Women make up only roughly 13% of the Australian Defence Force. Currently they are allowed to participate in front-line duties, however, they are only permitted in non combat roles.

WOMEN should be able to serve in all frontline combat units of the Australian Defence Force, including the SAS and commando units, under a bold plan that could avert a looming recruitment crisis.

The push by the Minister for Defence Personnel and Science, Greg Combet, would remove gender altogether as a criterion for selection for specialised categories of military service.

The Rudd Government wants to lift the proportion of women serving in the defence force from the current level of 13 per cent, as demographic pressures bear down on defence force recruitment over the next decade
So what is your take on women in the military. I know there are many members/ex-members of various military's on this site so I would like your opinions as you guys know what it is truly like. I know that there are several countries such as Israel, Canada and New Zealand that already employ females in combat roles. However, personally, I think the current set up should remain. Women should be allowed in any role in the military except combat roles. Maybe it is just a chauvinist side of me, but I feel that it could create many problems. The emotional side may have a large impact, as the death/capture of a female is generally taken a lot harder, especially if male soldiers have "connections" with captured or killed females. Also the practical side, the military effectively having to police their own force more carefully to ensure nothing happens, and also captured women may often be raped etc.

Opinions please.
Source:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26 … 21,00.html

Sure, if they can carry my 6'3" 250 lb ass (plus my full combat load of 80 lbs or so) out of combat when I've been injured then they can serve with the boys. Considering that the US Army has lower standards of physical fitness for women and that I have yet to meet a woman that could accomplish this... unless we're talking Miss Universe bodybuilders I just don't see it happening. Sorry ladies.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-09-09 14:04:21)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-09-09 14:15:19

#21

Stubbee: Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts; +223|7030|Reality

Can all male soldiers carry your 6'3" 250 lb harry ass? Didn't think so. You should go on a diet!

The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'

2009-09-09 14:20:17

#22

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5645|London, England

Stubbee wrote:
Can all male soldiers carry your 6'3" 250 lb harry ass? Didn't think so. You should go on a diet!

Genetics. Just naturally built like an NFL linebacker

And yes, we did fireman carry drills all the time when I was in the service for PT. They'd always give me to the smallest guy and make him carry me.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2009-09-09 14:23:01

#23

Dr.PhiL: Danmark; +30|6957|Up North

FatherTed wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Experts claim that the psychological effect for male soldiers seeing a mutilated female body on the battlefield is just to much to cope with ... you should prolly ask members of the Israeli army, they have women with combat experience I believe ...
I heard something similar. And theres other positions in the military (fast jet) for example that sometimes they physically can't do.

Positive discrimination ftl.

I was watching "Carrier" on National Geographic, and there was a female F-18 pilot (she was build like man though, fking HUGE)

2009-09-09 14:43:07

#24

Mitch: 16 more years; +877|6813|South Florida

i can only imagine, if i was in the military, i wouldnt be able to keep my eyes off a womans body. having been isolated from girls in a mostly guy military. is sex prohibited in the military? i wonder how many people do it anyways.

15 more years! 15 more years!

2009-09-09 14:46:45

#25

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6855|Mountains of NC

sex isn't prohibited ..... just don't get caught

fraternisation is another issue ....... espically if rank is different

BF2S Forums Women in combat roles.

tazz. wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Varegg wrote:

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