you're right there but if I had the chance to shoot one of those I would say YES YES yesdeject wrote:
You do realize that isn't any effect of spash damage right? The Minigun fires regular 7.62mm rounds, it just fires them at 3000 rounds per minute. There is no splash damage from 7.62mm bullets. The stuff flying off are ricochets. It was pretty rediculous to be killed by regular 7.62 rounds that don't even hit you.[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:
http://media.putfile.com/mini--gundeject wrote:
LOL, they really just took away the rediculous spash damage. The minigun could kill people through walls that APCs couldn't shoot through.
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- Blackhawk minigun, does no damage at all?! WTFF?!
hell yes! who wouldn't?[DEI]Bart wrote:
you're right there but if I had the chance to shoot one of those I would say YES YES yes
You do realize that standing in front of that or in a smaller vehicle is liquid death. Now go stand in front of the miniguns on a STATIONARY bhawk in BF2 and you will not die for a long bloody time. Even in pre-1.2 you may not have died from direct hits, but splash as you say, but there are no riccochets in BF2, and the splash-removed bullets magically aren't lethal - you can literally train them on a single infantry standing there and it will flare showing hits, but the infantry won't die. Get a med bag out, and sit there and take it like a man. Maybe they nerfed the bullet damage too. Further to the point, I doubt the ingame ROF is 3000 rpm, it would just increase network traffic everytime the miniguns roared out 2x3000.deject wrote:
You do realize that isn't any effect of spash damage right? The Minigun fires regular 7.62mm rounds, it just fires them at 3000 rounds per minute. There is no splash damage from 7.62mm bullets. The stuff flying off are ricochets. It was pretty rediculous to be killed by regular 7.62 rounds that don't even hit you.[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:
http://media.putfile.com/mini--gundeject wrote:
LOL, they really just took away the rediculous spash damage. The minigun could kill people through walls that APCs couldn't shoot through.
As for balance...
A few thousand dollar jeep is a better gun ship then a multimillion dollar blackhawk. Balance my ass, with the weakness of the choppers to AA, Jets, Attack Choppers, Jeeps, SRAW/ERYX, heavy machine gun fire, and the ability to kill NOTHING in return, is not balance. Add on the engineering nerf, and the engineering wrench glitch where you have to keep adjusting your aim to wrench the special upper corner spot or lower corner spot to actually repair. If anything needed to happen, the flying tubs needed their guns upgraded and the bhawk should have been left alone.
Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2006-04-09 12:47:20)
A possible way to balance, from old Blackhawk:
-Reduce Minigun damage slightly
-Increase PLA and MEC heli gun ROF and damage by lots (perhaps change the gun althogether?)
-Retain transport heli health
-Award kill assists to the driver only when someone in the heli makes a kill, not everyone.
-Allow engineer reparing, but have it on auto, but at the same rate as wrench reparing. Have no speed advantage for having two engineers.
-Allow parachuting out only on the back seats, not the pilot or gunners.
-Make some adjustment so a rocket to the passenger compartment will kill the passensger son that side and seriously injure/kill the ones on the other.
-Require landing for reparing on helipads.
-Reduce Minigun damage slightly
-Increase PLA and MEC heli gun ROF and damage by lots (perhaps change the gun althogether?)
-Retain transport heli health
-Award kill assists to the driver only when someone in the heli makes a kill, not everyone.
-Allow engineer reparing, but have it on auto, but at the same rate as wrench reparing. Have no speed advantage for having two engineers.
-Allow parachuting out only on the back seats, not the pilot or gunners.
-Make some adjustment so a rocket to the passenger compartment will kill the passensger son that side and seriously injure/kill the ones on the other.
-Require landing for reparing on helipads.
I guess my life is complete then. Between that and the .50 cal i got to fire in the same night i can now die in peace. It looks baddassed, esp. when the ammo your firing is 1 tracer per 5 rounds. Looks like a laser beam coming out the end of the gun.Viper38 wrote:
AMEN - Awesome video by the way. My life will never be complete until I have fired one of those
I do agree though, they went a little far in nerfing it. The mini's on our helicopters (Same dillon mini's as almost the whole military uses) fire 2000 or 4000 rounds per minute. That is a LOT of fire in a short time. I don't care who you are, that's gonna mess you up in a hurry.
u see the thing is tho, they would have to reprogram a new script for the MG's on the PLA and MEC choppers... which from a programming stand point would take longer than leaving the script alone and changing just one thing.kilroy0097 wrote:
I understand where you are coming from and I do believe they can still make an exception for the MGs on the helicopters. Due to their usage as flying platforms the ability to hit infantry accurately while in flight is much less than a stationary or slow moving FAV/Humvee,Vodnik etc. Because of this highly inaccurate fire and also due to the rather large target that the Transport helicopters present I believe that upping the damg. on those specific MG will not unbalance the game but instead make transport choppers more used as the platforms they should be used for which is infantry transport and, and infantry ground fire support while taking areas. Other wise why even have the MGs on the heli? Honestly at this point you could remove them and they would be used in basically the same way.Rizen_Ji wrote:
Think about what I said kilroy...Rizen_Ji wrote:
i think they did it for balance. and they couldn't up the power on the PLA and MEC transports because, that very same gun is mounted on the FAV's, DPV's, and on top of the tanks. Meaning they would up the power on those guns too, making it so that you'd have a bunch of n00bs going around one manning transports and pwning entire bases. so they only had the option of nerfing the minigun, since the Blackhawk was the only vehicle to use that weapon....
so stfu, cry about how you can't go in a blackhawk and pwn everything in site. they did it for B A L A N C E.
Black hawk= transport chopper..... not a gunship. Balance my good man, balance.
Yet it has guns, hence the term "gunship" my good friend. Did you even watch the video? I suppose those were nerf balls.BallisticallyYours wrote:
Black hawk= transport chopper..... not a gunship. Balance my good man, balance.
well said. I won't argue there.[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:
You do realize that standing in front of that or in a smaller vehicle is liquid death. Now go stand in front of the miniguns on a STATIONARY bhawk in BF2 and you will not die for a long bloody time. Even in pre-1.2 you may not have died from direct hits, but splash as you say, but there are no riccochets in BF2, and the splash-removed bullets magically aren't lethal - you can literally train them on a single infantry standing there and it will flare showing hits, but the infantry won't die. Get a med bag out, and sit there and take it like a man. Maybe they nerfed the bullet damage too. Further to the point, I doubt the ingame ROF is 3000 rpm, it would just increase network traffic everytime the miniguns roared out 2x3000.
As for balance...
A few thousand dollar jeep is a better gun ship then a multimillion dollar blackhawk. Balance my ass, with the weakness of the choppers to AA, Jets, Attack Choppers, Jeeps, SRAW/ERYX, heavy machine gun fire, and the ability to kill NOTHING in return, is not balance. Add on the engineering nerf, and the engineering wrench glitch where you have to keep adjusting your aim to wrench the special upper corner spot or lower corner spot to actually repair. If anything needed to happen, the flying tubs needed their guns upgraded and the bhawk should have been left alone.
Here is the perfect example that you might as well just remove the miniguns and let people fire out with their own guns.
Mashtuur City flying BH. I'm in a gunner spot.
We come up to a hill that is below the Water tower near the US Hill Flag point. There is a squad of 4 MEC soldier climbing it. We fly in and start blazing away. I am running the minigun through all 4 of them who are groups not more than a few feet apart. They are shooting at us. They actually kill 3 guys out of the chopper before we even killed a single one of them. Did I hit any of them? yes I did. Did it kill any of them? nope not one. The chopper took so much damage it had to leave from just small arms fire. I bailed out and immediately took out 2 of the 4 MEC soldiers out with my PKM within a few seconds of landing.
So.. what does this tell me?
You will probably hit things better with a PKM in a chopper than the mini-gun. However I must say that the mini-gun still takes out jeeps just as fast as it used to.
So what the hell is up with mini-guns and infantry? Is there some kind of special "mini-gun shield" around infantry now?
The entire game I was with my Squad leader doing BH runs and I don't think we got more than 7 or 8 kills with the mini-guns. We got more kills from spaming C4 or grenades out the side but those are individual kills.
I was doubtful about the miniguns but now I am absolutely never going to even attempt to use them unless the heli is stationary or unless it's again vehicles. Against infantry it's worthless. Crap.. worse than crap. Forget the mini-guns.. just be Supply and shoot out the back seat areas. Probably hit more with your MG36 or PKM than you will with the mini-guns.
Mashtuur City flying BH. I'm in a gunner spot.
We come up to a hill that is below the Water tower near the US Hill Flag point. There is a squad of 4 MEC soldier climbing it. We fly in and start blazing away. I am running the minigun through all 4 of them who are groups not more than a few feet apart. They are shooting at us. They actually kill 3 guys out of the chopper before we even killed a single one of them. Did I hit any of them? yes I did. Did it kill any of them? nope not one. The chopper took so much damage it had to leave from just small arms fire. I bailed out and immediately took out 2 of the 4 MEC soldiers out with my PKM within a few seconds of landing.
So.. what does this tell me?
You will probably hit things better with a PKM in a chopper than the mini-gun. However I must say that the mini-gun still takes out jeeps just as fast as it used to.
So what the hell is up with mini-guns and infantry? Is there some kind of special "mini-gun shield" around infantry now?
The entire game I was with my Squad leader doing BH runs and I don't think we got more than 7 or 8 kills with the mini-guns. We got more kills from spaming C4 or grenades out the side but those are individual kills.
I was doubtful about the miniguns but now I am absolutely never going to even attempt to use them unless the heli is stationary or unless it's again vehicles. Against infantry it's worthless. Crap.. worse than crap. Forget the mini-guns.. just be Supply and shoot out the back seat areas. Probably hit more with your MG36 or PKM than you will with the mini-guns.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
You cant shoot?So.. what does this tell me?
Really, you just have to be more accurate than you used to. Its rubbish against armour now but infantry are no problem still. And I've tried the PKM thing, doesnt work...
What a load of C R A P.Rizen_Ji wrote:
i think they did it for balance. and they couldn't up the power on the PLA and MEC transports because, that very same gun is mounted on the FAV's, DPV's, and on top of the tanks. Meaning they would up the power on those guns too, making it so that you'd have a bunch of n00bs going around one manning transports and pwning entire bases. so they only had the option of nerfing the minigun, since the Blackhawk was the only vehicle to use that weapon....
so stfu, cry about how you can't go in a blackhawk and pwn everything in site. they did it for B A L A N C E.
Rizen_Ji, I certainly hope that you have another account that has considerably more time on it to base your 'stfu' and 'cry' comments.
Are you seriously trying to tell us that EA/Dice couldn't selectively increase the firepower on the MEC/China without affecting the ground transport vehicles? Do you write code for Dice? So now there are three choppers that are next to useless, also not so good from a programming standpoint.Rizen_Ji wrote:
u see the thing is tho, they would have to reprogram a new script for the MG's on the PLA and MEC choppers... which from a programming stand point would take longer than leaving the script alone and changing just one thing.
Yea that's the explanation - bad aim. Are you a crime detective or something?Talon wrote:
You cant shoot?So.. what does this tell me?
Really, you just have to be more accurate than you used to. Its rubbish against armour now but infantry are no problem still. And I've tried the PKM thing, doesnt work...
Srsly fucked the fun out of Wake with that nerf. If EA is so concerned about balance, why don't they nerf the J-10?
*P.S. Stop brining up Mashtuur as justification for the castration that went on with the Black Hawk. There's one freakin' helo on that map. Shoot it down and capture the South Gas Station. The end.
*P.S. Stop brining up Mashtuur as justification for the castration that went on with the Black Hawk. There's one freakin' helo on that map. Shoot it down and capture the South Gas Station. The end.
Last edited by JimKong (2006-04-13 12:39:17)
I really can't stand what happened to it either. I spent a good 5 minutes of a round on Wake using the Blackhawk and it does so little damage to infantry that it is utterly useless, I found it better to parachute down and kill them with pistols than to stay up there and shoot the people.
Yea if you thought wake island was unbalanced before...its even worse now to the point of not being playable at all if you are USMC. You literally will eat loss after loss with two good J10 pilots in the air: you are hopelessly castrated. The Blackhawk used to balance the equation - cap the airfield, then gun the shit out of every other flag and it was a blast.Janus67 wrote:
I really can't stand what happened to it either. I spent a good 5 minutes of a round on Wake using the Blackhawk and it does so little damage to infantry that it is utterly useless, I found it better to parachute down and kill them with pistols than to stay up there and shoot the people.
Now it's repeatedly try to reach shore, eating deaths, culminating in a loss with a bunch of smacktard teammates all clusterfucking the Cobra spawn point. Wake used to be the best map, now I fear to touch it unless the server size is extremely small (<24 players). More then 12 perps on China and you will never touch land unless they are totally gimped.
hell ya,last i checked wake island wasnt supposed to feel like omaha beach with planes.half the time all the unassigned newbs sit around the carrier killing each other over crap they cant fly worth a damn,while the rest of us get blown out of the water by J-10's and gunships.by the time we get ashore theres 50 tickets for us left and they havent gone past 200.[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:
Yea if you thought wake island was unbalanced before...its even worse now to the point of not being playable at all if you are USMC. You literally will eat loss after loss with two good J10 pilots in the air: you are hopelessly castrated. The Blackhawk used to balance the equation - cap the airfield, then gun the shit out of every other flag and it was a blast.Janus67 wrote:
I really can't stand what happened to it either. I spent a good 5 minutes of a round on Wake using the Blackhawk and it does so little damage to infantry that it is utterly useless, I found it better to parachute down and kill them with pistols than to stay up there and shoot the people.
Now it's repeatedly try to reach shore, eating deaths, culminating in a loss with a bunch of smacktard teammates all clusterfucking the Cobra spawn point. Wake used to be the best map, now I fear to touch it unless the server size is extremely small (<24 players). More then 12 perps on China and you will never touch land unless they are totally gimped.
I like how everyone is saying the Blackhawk guns are now useless. The PLA and MEC transport choppers never had useful guns. It's almost impossible to even hit someone with the guns on those if you're moving at all. At least you can hit people with the minigun.
Actually, if you look at this thread, it is centered on the Blackhawk. Furthermore, there are several mentions throughout this forum regarding people wanting an upgrade to the other guns for the flying tubs. While the Bhawk may hit people it does no critical damage. The other guns could do damage if they ever hit. Clearly they all are gimped, and this is not the way it should be.deject wrote:
I like how everyone is saying the Blackhawk guns are now useless. The PLA and MEC transport choppers never had useful guns. It's almost impossible to even hit someone with the guns on those if you're moving at all. At least you can hit people with the minigun.
I agree with you 100%, but I'd rather have them all suck balls instead of having the game unbalanced.[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:
Actually, if you look at this thread, it is centered on the Blackhawk. Furthermore, there are several mentions throughout this forum regarding people wanting an upgrade to the other guns for the flying tubs. While the Bhawk may hit people it does no critical damage. The other guns could do damage if they ever hit. Clearly they all are gimped, and this is not the way it should be.deject wrote:
I like how everyone is saying the Blackhawk guns are now useless. The PLA and MEC transport choppers never had useful guns. It's almost impossible to even hit someone with the guns on those if you're moving at all. At least you can hit people with the minigun.
I think they should have brought back the minigun back to pre 1.22.
However I think they should have changed the damage for the helicopters: If helicopter takes one hit from sraw / eyrx it blows up.
And with the other helicopters, they should have increased the damage for the .50 cals. The .50 cals in DF Black Hawk Down were dangerous, now even a person in a vodnik cant kill any infantry, and winds up getting sniped.
I think thats fair.
However I think they should have changed the damage for the helicopters: If helicopter takes one hit from sraw / eyrx it blows up.
And with the other helicopters, they should have increased the damage for the .50 cals. The .50 cals in DF Black Hawk Down were dangerous, now even a person in a vodnik cant kill any infantry, and winds up getting sniped.
I think thats fair.
DF:BHD hit it right on the nail with the minis and the .50s, the minis spewed out like 15rps but did medium damage and the .50s shot like 3rps but would kill in 1-2 hits wich i think pretty much nailed it because minis use 7mm while 50s use..well 50s wich would blow you to little pieces lol, and the minis would just mow you down
The other Transport choppers don't need freaking chainguns of doom.
USMC has like, 5 maps where it needs to get from a carrier to land.
MEC and PLA are lucky to have to cross a river.
Wake is rediculously bad now.
I have yet to see a consistent winning USMC team. It all boils down to luck -_-.
And then the PLA is like "Omfg you have blackhawk use them, LOL DUMBASS I JUST SHOT DOWN YOUR BLACKHAWK WITH MY GUN! FOOLS! LOL U SUCK!"
USMC has like, 5 maps where it needs to get from a carrier to land.
MEC and PLA are lucky to have to cross a river.
Wake is rediculously bad now.
I have yet to see a consistent winning USMC team. It all boils down to luck -_-.
And then the PLA is like "Omfg you have blackhawk use them, LOL DUMBASS I JUST SHOT DOWN YOUR BLACKHAWK WITH MY GUN! FOOLS! LOL U SUCK!"
Blackhawk is a joke now. I overheated the gun on a sniper and didn't even hit the fucker. It is hard for the average player to hold the minigun over someone for 15 consecutive minutes while they fire nerf balls that do 0.0001 damage.
Seriously, though, I think the miniguns must be weaker than the pistol. One of the few times I was using the miniguns was when I was defending the USMC helipad on Mashtuur. I shot someone 5-6 times before they dropped as they ran at my chopper (in a straight line).
I admit it was way overpowered before (but SO FUN:D), but now it's the opposite. Why even bother with the miniguns? How about putting some medical supplies and an ammo crate?
Seriously, though, I think the miniguns must be weaker than the pistol. One of the few times I was using the miniguns was when I was defending the USMC helipad on Mashtuur. I shot someone 5-6 times before they dropped as they ran at my chopper (in a straight line).
I admit it was way overpowered before (but SO FUN:D), but now it's the opposite. Why even bother with the miniguns? How about putting some medical supplies and an ammo crate?
Yeah, it pissed me right off when they changed it. If I was feeling lazy, I used to just sit in the back of BH repairing it, but now they're too fucking weak, it's pointless. It's ridiculous that a stupid jeep can gun down a blackhawk! It used to be fun to make a 'blackhawk squad'- a good pilot and gunners as medics, with two or three engineers in the back=yay points, but now you can't do it...
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