Intelligent and thoughtful?lowing wrote:
A post like this is what I would expect from Aussie
I already conceded that you are able to dream up a scenerio so bad and manuver it to the point where you are screaming for govt. dependency. What more do you want. I simply am not going to do this shit with you. You are notorious for your fuckin' "WHAT IFs", and I simply ain't gunna play.AussieReaper wrote:
Thanks for answering, that is really insightful in to how your system is obviously so great.
Oh yeah, that is exactly what I was thinking.BN wrote:
Intelligent and thoughtful?lowing wrote:
A post like this is what I would expect from Aussie
That's because if demand for a physical product goes up through natural pressure you can adapt and increase supply.lowing wrote:
Yes there is a difference.Spark wrote:
Umm... can I read into this and say you distinguish between emergency and elective care? For example, cosmetic surgery vs. collapsing with a freak viral infection (that was great fun that botched spinal tap FTW)?lowing wrote:
Fuck no I don't think govt. should provide healthcare outside taking care of those that can not take care of themselves, and as far as education goes, I think it should be privatized as well, and money earmarked for govt. education be redistributed in the form of vouchers so paraent has a choice on where to get education for their kids, instead ofthe govt. forcing kids into schools based on their location and not their quality
As for the second part, expand please, I don't quite get you. How are you going to avoid certain schools collapsing under the pressure of everyone trying to enrol in them and resulting in greatly reduced enrolment rates OR much poorer education when people are forced into poorer quality schools out of natural competition?
Wow, never heard of a business collapsing because demand was too great. Where can I read up on that scenerio?
I seriously doubt that a hospital can somehow magically increase it's supply of organ donors, or a school can somehow materialise a few new classrooms and teachers.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Yes of course, printing vouchers will mean only good schools will exist.lowing wrote:
I think it should be privatized as well, and money earmarked for govt. education be redistributed in the form of vouchers so paraent has a choice on where to get education for their kids
There is a general lack of good teachers, you can't magic them out of the air by printing vouchers.
A better idea, base access to schooling on intelligence and willingness to work hard.
So if you're rich but your kids are dumb and lazy hard luck.
Fuck Israel
Yes because naturally, everyone in the nation wil want to all fock to the same hospital and same school. You are trying to invent problems that do not exist.Spark wrote:
That's because if demand for a physical product goes up through natural pressure you can adapt and increase supply.lowing wrote:
Yes there is a difference.Spark wrote:
Umm... can I read into this and say you distinguish between emergency and elective care? For example, cosmetic surgery vs. collapsing with a freak viral infection (that was great fun that botched spinal tap FTW)?
As for the second part, expand please, I don't quite get you. How are you going to avoid certain schools collapsing under the pressure of everyone trying to enrol in them and resulting in greatly reduced enrolment rates OR much poorer education when people are forced into poorer quality schools out of natural competition?
Wow, never heard of a business collapsing because demand was too great. Where can I read up on that scenerio?
I seriously doubt that a hospital can somehow magically increase it's supply of organ donors, or a school can somehow materialise a few new classrooms and teachers.
Ya know why there is a shortage of good teachers? Because the govt. does not want to pay for them.Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes of course, printing vouchers will mean only good schools will exist.lowing wrote:
I think it should be privatized as well, and money earmarked for govt. education be redistributed in the form of vouchers so paraent has a choice on where to get education for their kids
There is a general lack of good teachers, you can't magic them out of the air by printing vouchers.
A better idea, base access to schooling on intelligence and willingness to work hard.
So if you're rich but your kids are dumb and lazy hard luck.
When a person who is college educated can top out at only 50k a year there is little incentive to teach. But hey it is govt. the families are forced to uses them, what do they care?
I don't know about America. But when there is say a teacher shortage etc here. The government will often offer to increase pay, offer full scholarships to all undertaking teaching degree's etc etc. Does this not happen in the US?lowing wrote:
Ya know why there is a shortage of good teachers? Because the govt. does not want to pay for them.Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes of course, printing vouchers will mean only good schools will exist.lowing wrote:
I think it should be privatized as well, and money earmarked for govt. education be redistributed in the form of vouchers so paraent has a choice on where to get education for their kids
There is a general lack of good teachers, you can't magic them out of the air by printing vouchers.
A better idea, base access to schooling on intelligence and willingness to work hard.
So if you're rich but your kids are dumb and lazy hard luck.
When a person who is college educated can top out at only 50k a year there is little incentive to teach. But hey it is govt. the families are forced to uses them, what do they care?
Nope. In fact right now they are cutting teachers pay while increasing their hours. There is no incnetive to be a teacher. more money can be made else where.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
I don't know about America. But when there is say a teacher shortage etc here. The government will often offer to increase pay, offer full scholarships to all undertaking teaching degree's etc etc. Does this not happen in the US?lowing wrote:
Ya know why there is a shortage of good teachers? Because the govt. does not want to pay for them.Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes of course, printing vouchers will mean only good schools will exist.
There is a general lack of good teachers, you can't magic them out of the air by printing vouchers.
A better idea, base access to schooling on intelligence and willingness to work hard.
So if you're rich but your kids are dumb and lazy hard luck.
When a person who is college educated can top out at only 50k a year there is little incentive to teach. But hey it is govt. the families are forced to uses them, what do they care?
They don't exist because the system currently in place discourages it. If, however, you let business and economics have free rein over how it works, that is what will happen - people go for the best product, do they not?lowing wrote:
Yes because naturally, everyone in the nation wil want to all fock to the same hospital and same school. You are trying to invent problems that do not exist.Spark wrote:
That's because if demand for a physical product goes up through natural pressure you can adapt and increase supply.lowing wrote:
Yes there is a difference.
Wow, never heard of a business collapsing because demand was too great. Where can I read up on that scenerio?
I seriously doubt that a hospital can somehow magically increase it's supply of organ donors, or a school can somehow materialise a few new classrooms and teachers.
And yes, everyone in the nation does want to flock to a small minority of schools but the system doesn't let them.
Last edited by Spark (2009-09-05 00:04:38)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Agreed.AussieReaper wrote:
Healthcare should a right, not a privilege.
There is a little thing we have here in the US, and it is called distance, and distance n conjunction with practicality makes most of our decisions regarding such things.Spark wrote:
They don't exist because the system currently in place discourages it. If, however, you let business and economics have free rein over how it works, that is what will happen - people go for the best product, do they not?lowing wrote:
Yes because naturally, everyone in the nation wil want to all fock to the same hospital and same school. You are trying to invent problems that do not exist.Spark wrote:
That's because if demand for a physical product goes up through natural pressure you can adapt and increase supply.
I seriously doubt that a hospital can somehow magically increase it's supply of organ donors, or a school can somehow materialise a few new classrooms and teachers.
And yes, everyone in the nation does want to flock to a small minority of schools but the system doesn't let them.
your scenerio that there will be only one great hospital and one great school for all, is kind rediculous, and I wish you would abandon it.
So again, by your arrogance you determain that you have a right to another persons services FOR free. Services that he/she had to go to many years of school and sacrificed basically their youth to achieve. You have determained that YOU have a right to govern this person and their career. To control them and dictate to them because YOU have a right to their efforts?Turquoise wrote:
Agreed.AussieReaper wrote:
Healthcare should a right, not a privilege.
Re: spark,
I believe he is talking about monopoly/oligopoly.
How you come to the conclusion he is talking about one school/hospital in one location I have no idea.
I believe he is talking about monopoly/oligopoly.
How you come to the conclusion he is talking about one school/hospital in one location I have no idea.
Last edited by AussieReaper (2009-09-05 07:22:46)
So healthcare should only be given to those with big enough wallets?lowing wrote:
So again, by your arrogance you determain that you have a right to another persons services FOR free. Services that he/she had to go to many years of school and sacrificed basically their youth to achieve. You have determained that YOU have a right to govern this person and their career. To control them and dictate to them because YOU have a right to their efforts?Turquoise wrote:
Agreed.AussieReaper wrote:
Healthcare should a right, not a privilege.
Your saying that it's the doctors who can dictate the life and death of someone, for the simple desire for money and materialistic means.
How is that even ethical?
Isn't govt. school already a fuckin monopoly? WOuldn't your "free" health care also be a fuckin' monopoly?AussieReaper wrote:
Re: spark,
I believe he is talking about monopoly/oligopoly.
How you come to the conclusion he is talking about one school/hospital in one location I have no idea.
My response to spark was an exaggeratino to prove a point against his assurtion that there would only be a select number of schools and that everyone would be struggling to go to them. If a market is made for private schools they would open up, and competition would breed quality. Since most people do not go into business t oloose market share or money, (except the US govt.)
Nope, I am saying you do not have a "RIGHT" to a doctors life or career.AussieReaper wrote:
So healthcare should only be given to those with big enough wallets?lowing wrote:
So again, by your arrogance you determain that you have a right to another persons services FOR free. Services that he/she had to go to many years of school and sacrificed basically their youth to achieve. You have determained that YOU have a right to govern this person and their career. To control them and dictate to them because YOU have a right to their efforts?Turquoise wrote:
Agreed.
Your saying that it's the doctors who can dictate the life and death of someone, for the simple desire for money and materialistic means.
How is that even ethical?
No one is being turned down for health care.
No, and you've already stated why:lowing wrote:
Isn't govt. school already a fuckin monopoly? WOuldn't your "free" health care also be a fuckin' monopoly?AussieReaper wrote:
Re: spark,
I believe he is talking about monopoly/oligopoly.
How you come to the conclusion he is talking about one school/hospital in one location I have no idea.
You can't have a monopoly with a government run organisation when it is PUBLIC owned and not there to run a profit. Simple.lowing wrote:
Since most people do not go into business t oloose market share or money, (except the US govt.)
I see, and your solution to operating a business that is not in business to make a profit? Let me guess, tax as needed right?AussieReaper wrote:
No, and you've already stated why:lowing wrote:
Isn't govt. school already a fuckin monopoly? WOuldn't your "free" health care also be a fuckin' monopoly?AussieReaper wrote:
Re: spark,
I believe he is talking about monopoly/oligopoly.
How you come to the conclusion he is talking about one school/hospital in one location I have no idea.You can't have a monopoly with a government run organisation when it is PUBLIC owned and not there to run a profit. Simple.lowing wrote:
Since most people do not go into business t oloose market share or money, (except the US govt.)
please consider my sig
Last edited by lowing (2009-09-05 08:03:28)
Tax dollars don't run out or dry up. What a stupid comment to make.
holy shit, Aussie, you really make me sick with your simple solution to every issue is to ramp up the siezure of more money from those trying to earn a living.AussieReaper wrote:
Tax dollars don't run out or dry up. What a stupid comment to make.
And yes, tax dollars do dry up, ask cities and states that productive people move away from when they start getting over taxed to fund bullshit
Last edited by lowing (2009-09-05 08:24:46)
"Of two things you can be certain; death and taxes"- Benjamin Franklinlowing wrote:
holy shit, Aussie, you really make me sick with your simple solution to every issue is to ramp up the siezure of more money from those trying to earn a living.AussieReaper wrote:
Tax dollars don't run out or dry up. What a stupid comment to make.
And yes, tax dollars do dry up, ask cities and states that people move away from when they start over taxing its citizens.
nothing to do with my post.AussieReaper wrote:
"Of two things you can be certain; death and taxes"- Benjamin Franklinlowing wrote:
holy shit, Aussie, you really make me sick with your simple solution to every issue is to ramp up the siezure of more money from those trying to earn a living.AussieReaper wrote:
Tax dollars don't run out or dry up. What a stupid comment to make.
And yes, tax dollars do dry up, ask cities and states that people move away from when they start over taxing its citizens.
So now you are telling me there is no difference between taxes and over taxing. You are telling me there are no consequences from stealing too much money from producers who are earning and contributing.
You are telling me that people are to be harvested by govt. for their money, that they are not entitled to their own lives and that their efforts are soley to support govt.
How sweet
In a civilized society, everyone has a right to healthcare. At least, that is the opinion of the majority of the First World, and mine as well.lowing wrote:
Nope, I am saying you do not have a "RIGHT" to a doctors life or career.AussieReaper wrote:
So healthcare should only be given to those with big enough wallets?lowing wrote:
So again, by your arrogance you determain that you have a right to another persons services FOR free. Services that he/she had to go to many years of school and sacrificed basically their youth to achieve. You have determained that YOU have a right to govern this person and their career. To control them and dictate to them because YOU have a right to their efforts?
Your saying that it's the doctors who can dictate the life and death of someone, for the simple desire for money and materialistic means.
How is that even ethical?
No one is being turned down for health care.
Lowing just because healthcare will be nationalized does not mean insurance companies cease to exist. America is so fucked by the rich and poor divide its disgusting. Letting hospitals get better funding from public money is way better to let it crack under pressure.
