FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6470|so randum
More people died at the hands of the soviets in camps than the germans killed in thier camps btw. Just because the russians helped win the more doesnt make them saints.
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Karbin
Member
+42|6265

MrAnderson wrote:

You mentioned fighting the Soviets would be a 'milder war'. I wasn't talking about Jews, I was talking about war with the USSR...but Stalin was just as bad for persecuting his own people.

Maybe the Jews would have gotten off lighter, I don't know...that's not entirely relevant. What I do know is that he had millions of his own people deported, imprisoned or executed based upon their race, heritage or politics, just as brutally as the Nazis treated their scapegoats.
Add on:

Antisemitic actions, up to a point, were not state policy in Stalin's USSR.
Example:
"The Soviet authorities considered the use of Hebrew language "reactionary" since it was associated with both Judaism and Zionism, and the teaching of Hebrew at primary and secondary schools was officially banned by the Narkompros (Commissariat of Education) as early as 1919, as part of an overall agenda aiming to secularize education. Hebrew books and periodicals ceased to be published and were seized from the libraries, although liturgical texts were still published until the 1930s. Despite numerous protests in the West, teachers and students who attempted to study the Hebrew language were pilloried and sentenced for "counter revolutionary" and later for "anti-Soviet" activities."

That said, antisemitism was against the law in Stalin's USSR. That doesn't mean that SOME of the population didn't hold antisemitic views.
The life of a Jew was only slightly better in the USSR then in Nazi Germany.
The years before the Holocaust were an era of rapid change for Soviet Jews, leaving behind the dreadful poverty of the Pale of Settlement. Forty percent of the population in the former Pale left for large cities within the USSR.
Due to Stalinist emphasis on its urban population, interwar migration inadvertently rescued countless Soviet Jews; Nazi Germany penetrated the entire former Jewish Paleā€”but were kilometers short of Leningrad and Moscow. The great wave of deportations from the areas annexed by Soviet Union according to the Nazi-Soviet pact, often seen by victims as genocide, paradoxically also saved lives of a few hundred thousand Jewish deportees. However horrible their conditions, the fate of Jews in Nazi Germany was much worse. The migration of many Jews deeper East from the part of the Jewish Pale that would become occupied by Germany saved at least forty percent of this area's Jewish population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_in_Ru … rld_War_II

As for what can and did happen to populations that Stalin didn't like, look up The Holodomor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
=JoD=Corithus
Member
+30|6528

FatherTed wrote:

More people died at the hands of the soviets in camps than the germans killed in thier camps btw. Just because the russians helped win the more doesnt make them saints.
This is accuarate, and dosen't even take into account the decimation of the Soviet officer corps that Stalin did prior to WW2.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6470|so randum

=JoD=Corithus wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

More people died at the hands of the soviets in camps than the germans killed in thier camps btw. Just because the russians helped win the more doesnt make them saints.
This is accuarate, and dosen't even take into account the decimation of the Soviet officer corps that Stalin did prior to WW2.
I remember going to some concentration camp like 2 hours outside of Berlin, and there was the usual sort of monument to x amount of murdered people by the Nazi's, and then in a corner on a small stone, about 10x the amount by the russians.

The victor writes the history i imagine.
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Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Rape of Nanking. An example of rarely talked about brutality.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6470|so randum

Kmarion wrote:

Rape of Nanking. An example of rarely talked about brutality.
Yep.

Never mind the fact that the British invented concentration camps.
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.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6424|The Twilight Zone

MrAnderson wrote:

You mentioned fighting the Soviets would be a 'milder war'. I wasn't talking about Jews, I was talking about war with the USSR...but Stalin was just as bad for persecuting his own people.

Maybe the Jews would have gotten off lighter, I don't know...that's not entirely relevant. What I do know is that he had millions of his own people deported, imprisoned or executed based upon their race, heritage or politics, just as brutally as the Nazis treated their scapegoats.
I haven't mentioned Ruskies until you mentioned cold war. Stalin didn't come to my mind. All I said it might be different, less people killed if WW2 would actually happen and if Hitler wasn't around.
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

Phil Hendrie explains life under Hitler well.. I posted this in another thread.
http://tinypic.com/r/bjba52/3

The lucky ones were simply executed.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
MrAnderson
Ghost Town T90/Apache Whore
+99|5969|Aberdeen, Scotland

.Sup wrote:

All I said it might be different, less people killed if WW2 would actually happen and if Hitler wasn't around.
Yes, but you're still missing the point. If we hadn't fought Germany again, it would have most likely led to a different war with Russia, and likely Japan also...and that wouldn't have been any less bloody. In fact, Germany forced us (British/French forces) out of Europe very quickly using Blitzkreig tactics; if we'd been fighting the Russians, it's likely we would have been locked in stalemate and wars of attrition in mainland Europe, leading to more deaths. As also mentioned, the Soviet authorities under Stalin were just as brutal in slaughtering their own civilian populace.

All this said, even without Hitler it's possible Germany would have sought conflict; Hitler drew on the bitterness and humiliation the German people felt following Versailles, and inspired them to rebuild and re-arm; there's no reason others couldn't have done the same.
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6629|BC, Canada

=JoD=Corithus wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

Uzique wrote:

... oh jesus christ.

talk to me about the great war / world war II when your understanding doesn't come from 'history simplified for dumbies'.

... i suppose you're glad you yankee-doodles came in on your magic-wings to save europe and do all the work as well, right?
Fuck I hate it when americans claim they won the war single handedly...
Between the US, UK, an USSR, no two of those nations could have pulled it off alone.  It was a combined effort, no one nation deserves credit for ending the war.
given all the names on a monument in my home town it took more than just those three...
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|6629|BC, Canada

FatherTed wrote:

More people died at the hands of the soviets in camps than the germans killed in thier camps btw. Just because the russians helped win the more doesnt make them saints.
this too
BVC
Member
+325|6666
If hitler hadn't been around then WW2 would have been between Russia and the west.  There would have been tesla tanks/troops, prism towers and chrono-jumps, jeez don't you people know anything?

Shake it baby, yeah!

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