BF2S Forums Healthcare support goes under 50%

Harmor wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

You're assuming our habits are unlikely to change.  They can with these systems, but as I said, it takes time and unfortunately...  legislation sometimes.

So does that mean the "Fat tax" would be in effect?  Are we going to sick the trial lawyers against McDonalds, Pepsi, and Coke?

I'm sure the trial lawyers would just love milking a few more billion from an American company like they did with the tobacco industry.

There was more justification in doing that to tobacco companies because of years of intentional misinformation.

With fast food and sodas, it's more a matter of pushing trans fats and corn syrup out of their formulas.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-08-29 22:55:14)

Kmarion wrote:

Nope


lol.. I understand your idea but people are told that they are going to die, that they are cutting years off of their life.. they are ridiculed, embarrassed, and discriminated against. If that doesn't get people to change, a marginal increase in taxes won't do it neither.

Why then...  have the people of so many other countries in the First World done it?

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Nope


lol.. I understand your idea but people are told that they are going to die, that they are cutting years off of their life.. they are ridiculed, embarrassed, and discriminated against. If that doesn't get people to change, a marginal increase in taxes won't do it neither.

Why then...  have the people of so many other countries in the First World done it?

You think it's because they are taxed? That is ridiculous. Most first word countries aren't that different in terms of lifestyle. You were talking about Japan and that is one of the exceptions. Their diet is much different than ours (lots of fish). They also walk and bike much more because of their population problems.

Culture is obviously part of it, but when it comes to Europe overall, I wouldn't think they just happened to be healthier from the get-go.

What I find ridiculous is that you seem to believe that we as a people are incapable of moving toward a healthier lifestyle.

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You think it's because they are taxed? That is ridiculous. Most first word countries aren't that different in terms of lifestyle. You were talking about Japan and that is one of the exceptions. Their diet is much different than ours (lots of fish). They also walk and bike much more because of their population problems.

Culture is obviously part of it, but when it comes to Europe overall, I wouldn't think they just happened to be healthier from the get-go.

What I find ridiculous is that you seem to believe that we as a people are incapable of moving toward a healthier lifestyle.

My point is when they decide to move towards a healthier lifestyle it's usually for all of the other previous listed reasons. They want to feel better about themselves.. not "o' golly gee, if I eat this doughnut and don't run two miles I'm going to get taxed". THAT is ridiculous.

The people who aren't motivated in the face of life threatening illness aren't going to be motivated by a tax.

Well, do you think they'd be motivated by ads?  Europe makes extensive use of socially-oriented ads with regard to a lot of things, and they seem to work in terms of changing behavior.

Kmarion wrote:

First of all, you do realize that Europe is facing it's own obesity crisis right?

Marketing can help as far as tips, but again, it is not a primary motivating factor.

As far as I can tell, the only countries in Europe really facing an obesity crisis are the U.K., Slovakia, and Greece.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_o … th-obesity

The rest of the OECD countries in Europe have about half our obesity rate or less.

EDIT:  I guess you could put Hungary and Luxembourg in there too.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-08-29 23:27:20)

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

First of all, you do realize that Europe is facing it's own obesity crisis right?

Marketing can help as far as tips, but again, it is not a primary motivating factor.

As far as I can tell, the only countries in Europe really facing an obesity crisis are the U.K., Slovakia, and Greece.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_o … th-obesity

The rest of the OECD countries in Europe have about half our obesity rate or less.

Read the headlines.. it is a problem. Maybe not as bad, but the notion that they are just so damn healthy is bollocks.
It's going up, not down.
http://ch-weightwisemd.blogspot.com/200 … esity.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 … bese_x.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/world … 93089.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/25/inter … obese.html
http://www.euro.who.int/obesity
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview … p;rel_no=1
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire … 68857.html

There is no doubt that it will make them pay more. Bring it down? Depends. If it is something they desire to keep they will tolerate the cost.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Culture is obviously part of it, but when it comes to Europe overall, I wouldn't think they just happened to be healthier from the get-go.

What I find ridiculous is that you seem to believe that we as a people are incapable of moving toward a healthier lifestyle.

My point is when they decide to move towards a healthier lifestyle it's usually for all of the other previous listed reasons. They want to feel better about themselves.. not "o' golly gee, if I eat this doughnut and don't run two miles I'm going to get taxed". THAT is ridiculous.

The people who aren't motivated in the face of life threatening illness aren't going to be motivated by a tax.

Well, do you think they'd be motivated by ads?  Europe makes extensive use of socially-oriented ads with regard to a lot of things, and they seem to work in terms of changing behavior.

You've never watched much TV here, have you?

PSAs out the yingyang for healthier eating, exercise, and nurturing everyone's inner child.

From what I've seen in Europe (and Asia), there is much less processed/packaged food. More buying local and daily. Even "fast food" is created that way, vice what we have here. That and generally more active lifestyles (walking/biking everywhere) would seem to make more of a difference. It's just a different lifestyle, based on how the countries developed.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Ads are irrelevant - unless they scare the shit out of people, its down to lifestyle.

This texting while driving ad is pretty good at getting the kiddies in line:

How about we not try to take of everybody by worry about the masses and just worry about those that actually need help.  Let the able bodies do what they can and learn to take care of themselves.  I don't need someone coming into my house to tell me that bacon cheeseburger is bad for me.  I know it is.  I like to eat it though and I will pay for bloody bypass surgery with my own private insurance if you don't mind.

BTW you ever had the cheese fries at outback steakhouse.  They are to die for.  Really, they are like 2900 calories if you eat the whole plate with Ranch dip.  Good stuff.

No one should have to die because they can't afford healthcare. No one should have to go bankrupt paying for a medical procedure. Those who are against universal healthcare are against their own interests or so privileged that they are simply out of touch.

Although many health problems are a result of an unhealthy lifestyle, many are not (think appendectomy, accidents, cancer, etc.). That said, if so many people can be so easily convinced that universal healthcare = Nazism, they can also be convinced to live a healthy lifestyle.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2009-09-03 13:59:28)

The bankruptcy myth has been debunked...repeatedly. Just more scare tactics used by one side to justify their agenda. No different than the other side using scare tactics to justify theirs.