They can no more authenticate this document than I can the Bible. What if it was a parody of Christianity? What if a Jew wrote it to discredit Christians? Even more things that make you go hmmmm.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
You know, it's funny you say that. I just read an article in the paper this morning that said they found new documents near Egypt. They contain information about Judas. Want to know the funny thing? They tell of how Judas turned Jesus over to the high priests at Jesus request to fulfill the "prophecies", and scholars that have been studying the document say that Judas may have been chosen to do this because he understood what Jesus was doing better than anyone else.Inspector_Gadget wrote:
God's knowledge of us before, during and after can be termed Divine Providence. Time as we know it, is part of creation and does not bind God. God therfore knows us before, during, and after so to speak. He has the ability to know our choices before they are made but does not interfere due to free will. You say, "How can God know our choices if it is true free will?"... Just because God CAN know your choices does not mean he determines them. In the New Testament Jesus knew his betrayer at the Last Supper but did not single him out but instead allowed him to reveal himself by dipping his bread at the same time as foretold by Jesus.
God indeed knows everything because He created us all inside time and space which does not hold Him.
Again, just because He CAN control something does not mean he DOES.
Edit: You are trying to reason with God's ways. His ways are not our ways. Human logic cannot determine God's will or methods. This is another reason why it is a life long process to be a Christian...
Things that make you go hmmmm.
he didnt do what jesus asked....he hung himself because Jesus predicted he would betray him 3 times before the roster crowed and he did so he hung himself out of shame upside down because he was not worthy to die the same way his Lord was to....JaMDuDe wrote:
why did judas hang himself out of guilt if he was doing what jesus asked
isnt jesus rising from the dead reincarnation
I thought peter was the apostle that was going to betray jesus 3 timessiciliano732 wrote:
he didnt do what jesus asked....he hung himself because Jesus predicted he would betray him 3 times before the roster crowed and he did so he hung himself out of shame upside down because he was not worthy to die the same way his Lord was to....JaMDuDe wrote:
why did judas hang himself out of guilt if he was doing what jesus asked
YepGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I thought peter was the apostle that was going to betray jesus 3 times
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-04-07 12:21:15)
I never said they could, and in fact I believe that several parts of the Bible are flat out false, while many others are severely exagerated. It was just something I read in the paper, that puts a whole new twist on the view of Judas.wannabe_tank_whore wrote:
They can no more authenticate this document than I can the Bible. What if it was a parody of Christianity? What if a Jew wrote it to discredit Christians? Even more things that make you go hmmmm.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
You know, it's funny you say that. I just read an article in the paper this morning that said they found new documents near Egypt. They contain information about Judas. Want to know the funny thing? They tell of how Judas turned Jesus over to the high priests at Jesus request to fulfill the "prophecies", and scholars that have been studying the document say that Judas may have been chosen to do this because he understood what Jesus was doing better than anyone else.Inspector_Gadget wrote:
God's knowledge of us before, during and after can be termed Divine Providence. Time as we know it, is part of creation and does not bind God. God therfore knows us before, during, and after so to speak. He has the ability to know our choices before they are made but does not interfere due to free will. You say, "How can God know our choices if it is true free will?"... Just because God CAN know your choices does not mean he determines them. In the New Testament Jesus knew his betrayer at the Last Supper but did not single him out but instead allowed him to reveal himself by dipping his bread at the same time as foretold by Jesus.
God indeed knows everything because He created us all inside time and space which does not hold Him.
Again, just because He CAN control something does not mean he DOES.
Edit: You are trying to reason with God's ways. His ways are not our ways. Human logic cannot determine God's will or methods. This is another reason why it is a life long process to be a Christian...
Things that make you go hmmmm.
Ultimately my main point is that if this document can be authenticated, as much as any of the other writings of the Bible can be, then it simply goes to show that the Bible may be wrong in some aspects, and maybe incomplete in others.
Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-04-07 12:52:54)
which parts of the bible are flat out false?
GenesisJaMDuDe wrote:
which parts of the bible are flat out false?
how is that false...because you believe its false, because you dont want to believe that an all powerful being created everything, or are you the only person who has proof it is false?
I believe he's referring to the fact that the Earth wasn't created in six days, and it sure as hell didn't happen 6000 years ago. God could have created it, sure, but not on that timescale unless he's just screwing with our scientists for fun.
Sorry, but I have access to written records of the creation of the universe. I forgot to mention it...
http://venganza.org/
http://venganza.org/
If you have ready my post you would have seen where I said I believe portions of the Bible to be flat out false, and this is one of them. I've read the arguments of people like you that debate the accuracy of scientific dating methods, as well as those on the science side; I would tend to find the scientific side more believable. You may ask why, and the answer is simple. I hardly think that thousands of scientist have, for more than 150 years, have been out to prove Genesis wrong as their sole reason behind their dating techniques. Religion on the other hand has much to lose, as it calls the written word of the Bible into question, and some simply don't want that door opened ever, as they feel it could lead to other aspects of the Bible being questioned, and to do so is unacceptable.siciliano732 wrote:
how is that false...because you believe its false, because you dont want to believe that an all powerful being created everything, or are you the only person who has proof it is false?
I think it'd be funny if people like completely misinterpreted the bible to the point where it was originally written as fiction and we made it a holy book. Wouldn't that be strange? What if the bible was like originally meant to be fiction and people just began to take it too seriously? Like if a future generation picked up a superman comic from nowadays and said, "This must mean something" and then started a religion worshipping superman, but no one would turn their backs on it because they would be attacked for being an evildoer.
Wouldn't that be crazy if it was actually meant to be fiction and we just mistakenly thought it was real to the point where we began to worship it and live by it? I was just thinking about it and I thought I'd post it.
Wouldn't that be crazy if it was actually meant to be fiction and we just mistakenly thought it was real to the point where we began to worship it and live by it? I was just thinking about it and I thought I'd post it.
Why exist? The entire purpose of every life form on earth is to reproduce. It's natural selection, baby...Flavius Aetius wrote:
i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?
Think, please. Dont' look and swallow.siciliano732 wrote:
how is that false...because you believe its false, because you dont want to believe that an all powerful being created everything, or are you the only person who has proof it is false?
1. Who wrote the 'beginning'? Apparently it was written through a 'revelation' (or dream). But I certainly dream things of that nature. And they seem quite real too. Big hole in its credibility.
2. Even if it was written authentically...
You are a very smart man. My hat goes off to you.I think it'd be funny if people like completely misinterpreted the bible to the point where it was originally written as fiction and we made it a holy book. Wouldn't that be strange? What if the bible was like originally meant to be fiction and people just began to take it too seriously? Like if a future generation picked up a superman comic from nowadays and said, "This must mean something" and then started a religion worshipping superman, but no one would turn their backs on it because they would be attacked for being an evildoer.
Wouldn't that be crazy if it was actually meant to be fiction and we just mistakenly thought it was real to the point where we began to worship it and live by it? I was just thinking about it and I thought I'd post it.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Does it bother you that if God really works as you claim, billions of people, something like 80% of the population of the world are going to Hell? Does that sound like the work of a just and loving God? Total jerks that accept Jesus go to heaven, but wonderful, creative, loving people who are born into other cultures spend eternity suffering.siciliano732 wrote:
as for the first question, i believe that we are only saved through Christ dying on the cross for us, and the Bible says that "He(Christ) is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one gets to heaven but through him". . . So yes, i do believe that if you do not accept him into your heart as your personal savior and follow him then yes, you will go to hell. The Bible says so.
What a lousy God you dreamed up. You should be ashamed.
Another smart man. Today is a very lucky day.Vic42 wrote:
Does it bother you that if God really works as you claim, billions of people, something like 80% of the population of the world are going to Hell? Does that sound like the work of a just and loving God? Total jerks that accept Jesus go to heaven, but wonderful, creative, loving people who are born into other cultures spend eternity suffering.siciliano732 wrote:
as for the first question, i believe that we are only saved through Christ dying on the cross for us, and the Bible says that "He(Christ) is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one gets to heaven but through him". . . So yes, i do believe that if you do not accept him into your heart as your personal savior and follow him then yes, you will go to hell. The Bible says so.
What a lousy God you dreamed up. You should be ashamed.
Very true. I find many religious people who are complete hypocrites. That is the main reason I will never be devoutly religious.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Only God can judge and decide who goes where. The people who are good people and just have never heard of him i believe go to heaven. All children who dont understand everything and die go to heaven too. Gods wants everyone to go to heaven. Most people have a choice and decide to go with him or not.
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-04-07 19:32:11)
only if you sacrifice 40 lambs to HeraJaMDuDe wrote:
Only God can judge and decide who goes where. The people who are good people and just have never heard of him i believe go to heaven. All children who dont understand everything and die go to heaven too. Gods wants everyone to go to heaven. Most people have a choice and decide to go with him or not.
Ok jamdude. Here's a situation for you.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
only if you sacrifice 40 lambs to HeraJaMDuDe wrote:
Only God can judge and decide who goes where. The people who are good people and just have never heard of him i believe go to heaven. All children who dont understand everything and die go to heaven too. Gods wants everyone to go to heaven. Most people have a choice and decide to go with him or not.
There is a Buddhist and a Christian.
The Christian is incredibly strict on his religious reigeme. He goes to church, goes to reconciliation as often as time allows. The Buddhist is a bit lax, doesn't pray as often as he should etc.
The Christian is a bit lazy. He turns a blind eye to those in need and refuses to donate to charities of any kind. He hoards his wealth, and longs for fame. The Buddhist is selfless. He isn't well off yet manages to find money to give to others every day.
The Buddhist abhors any idea of God, and does not believe those who believe there is one.
Who should go to heaven if there is one place left?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Apparently Spark, you aren't even reading what Jamdude is typing.
Who should go to heaven if there is one place left?
Only God can judge and decide who goes where.
IDIOT the fishermen were in a boat!!!MooseRyder wrote:
They said Jesus walked on the water...they forgot to say the stupid lake was frozen
Well first off...thank you spark for the props on my comment. Secondly, I think spark has a good idea going there too. Even though I personally am athiest I feel safe if there is a god because of spark's reasoning (or at least what he was pointing out).
I feel that if god judges based soley on whether you believe in him or not, he is not a just almighty being. If he sends you to hell for not believing in him or for having a free will, he seems more like an attention-craving kid, or a dictator. So if that is the case, then i could honestly care less if there is a god or not because the "system" of good or evil wouldn't be just. Like spark said, a horrible person could go to heaven just because he believes in god while a really good person deserving to go doesn't because he doesn't have faith. Who could say which side is which with that type of reasoning?
Buuuuttttttttt......if god is truly a judge on whether someone is of good nature and morality or not, i feel that i've lived a pretty good life along those lines. i'm not the best person, or anywhere close, but i am a "good" person. I've tried to make good decisions and do the right things, and if heaven is really the place where the good souls go, i think it'll be based on the actual person's character and not whether they believe in god or not.
and so that is my reasoning for why I'm not scared of not believing in god....in case anyone wanted that opinion.
I feel that if god judges based soley on whether you believe in him or not, he is not a just almighty being. If he sends you to hell for not believing in him or for having a free will, he seems more like an attention-craving kid, or a dictator. So if that is the case, then i could honestly care less if there is a god or not because the "system" of good or evil wouldn't be just. Like spark said, a horrible person could go to heaven just because he believes in god while a really good person deserving to go doesn't because he doesn't have faith. Who could say which side is which with that type of reasoning?
Buuuuttttttttt......if god is truly a judge on whether someone is of good nature and morality or not, i feel that i've lived a pretty good life along those lines. i'm not the best person, or anywhere close, but i am a "good" person. I've tried to make good decisions and do the right things, and if heaven is really the place where the good souls go, i think it'll be based on the actual person's character and not whether they believe in god or not.
and so that is my reasoning for why I'm not scared of not believing in god....in case anyone wanted that opinion.
God gives most people a chance to choose him or not. For the ones who dont get a chance i believe he judges them on whether or not there a good person. Being a christian is not a free pass to do whatever you want for life. You still get punished for doing bad things.
The almighty God of pure love and then Judges man to eternal suffering for having free will. hmm contridictory don't you think.
and if its god that Judges then that makes the devil a servant of god destined to punish "evil men" for all time
and if its god that Judges then that makes the devil a servant of god destined to punish "evil men" for all time