Bertster7 wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
Very, very easily. I already have
in a previous post anyway and Purefodder has done the job for me here. Prefering no action to the proposed action != not wanting reform. Wanting reform is being unhappy with the current system.
And I've never said the American people didn't want reform...just that we don't want
this reform.
Yes, you have. You said 85% were happy with their healthcare, which is poppycock.
85% of those covered are happy with their healthcare. Which corresponds to 72% of the entire population of the US (both covered and uncovered)...even if you take the 47 million at face value.
So are you saying 72% is poppycock?
BTW, we already covered the 85% number. Just keep clinging to that if it makes you feel better. Doesn't change the facts, however.
I'm saying that on the basis of data from recent polls that 72% of Americans being happy with healthcare in the US exceedingly unlikely.
That number
is derived from recent polls, Bert.
Bert wrote:
You covered the 85% number? No you didn't, except to say that you didn't know where you heard it and that you have no source for it.
I provided as much sourcing as you did for your info, so stop calling the kettle black.
Bert wrote:
The figures you've just provided in the Gallup poll and the NY Times poll certainly are not consistent with that at all. They show satisfaction with the current healthcare system to be ~50%.
They are consistent with the statement that 85% are satisfied with their healthcare (which implies they have healthcare coverage). Which is a completely different metric than what you are throwing out now. They are not inconsistent...they are different slices of the same pie.
Bert wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Go back and read again. I certainly have.
No you haven't. You've made a stupid claim that 85% of Americans are happy with their healthcare without anything to support that claim. Now it seems you are frantically backpedaling.
Now who's making stuff up? Perhaps you have a future in the news industry?
Well, you are - if you're still pushing this 85% of Americans being happy with healthcare in the US figure.
I'm not pushing anything...merely providing you the sources you say don't exist. If you can't be bothered to read them or believe them, I can't force you to.
Bert wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
Oh yes, you heard it on a random, unnamed news station and were unable to find a source online. That's going a long way to proving your claim that is.
Here's a Gallup poll.
Great. A poll that's almost 10 years old. Which shows that 54% of Americans are satisfied with the quality of healthcare in the US:
A Gallup poll finds that just a slight majority of Americans (54%) are satisfied with the quality of healthcare in the United States.
Your source doesn't do a lot to support your earlier assertion that:
FEOS wrote:
more than 85% of Americans are happy with the system here.
Your sources don't support that, my sources don't support that. It's just nonsense. Whether it's been made up by you or some random news station, I don't know.
Jesus H Tapdancin' Christ. You are being ridiculous about this. I have clarified the 85% thing multiple times. I'm not going to keep clarifying it simply because you don't acknowledge the clarification.
Bert wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Summary of an
ABC/Washington Post (liberal bias) Poll:
84% of respondents have some form of health insurance, 16% don’t.
83% of all respondents are satisfied with the quality of health care; 88% of insured respondents are.
Of the insured, 81% are satisfied with their coverage; 42% are very satisfied and 39% are somewhat satisfied. This is where insurers are vulnerable.
When asked how concerned they are about efforts to reform health care [insurance]:
81% are concerned that the quality of health care would be reduced;
82% are concerned that their health insurance coverage would be reduced;
84% are concerned that reforms would increase their health care costs;
78% are concerned that proposed reforms would increase bureaucracy in health care;
79% are concerned that reforms would limit their choices of doctors or treatments; and,
84% are concerned that reforms would sharply increase the federal deficit.
That's data within a biased organization's poll. Yes, there is data supporting the other side, as well. But your snide-assed comment doesn't rate it. I already mea-culpa'ed the 85%, but you felt it necessary to keep picking the scab. I'll remember that the next time you offer something up.
So now you're changing the subject? You've been off topic enough as it is, now you are moving away from the single statistic I've picked up on - because it was obvious bullshit. Satisfaction with the US healthcare system is the only figure I've been refering to (or satisfaction levels with the NHS as a comparison) - since this thread is about the misinformation spread surrounding this issue, not about
support for reform. I picked up on the 85% figure you presented as fact as being a clear example of this. The NY Times poll figures (page 3, question 50) place satisfaction with the US system at around 40-50% - which is in line with the findings of the much older Gallup poll.
Support for the reform bill is not something I've gotten onto, since I'm not even sure I do support it.
/facefuckingdesk
Just read the highlighted portion.
And then kindly shut your trap about the 85% comment. It's right there. Sourced and everything.
If providing you the sourcing you demand--on the topic being discussed--along with additional information about our population's views on the topic is "changing the subject"...then fine. Whatever.
Bert wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
If there is no traceable source for the poll, the figure has in all likelihood been made up. Either by the news station you claim to have heard it on or by you.
Your pomposity is tiresome. I heard a number while driving home. I don't know about you, but I don't have a pad where I write down the station, show, and source while driving. Perhaps it's easier with right-hand drive cars.
Bertster7 wrote:
They do have a choice. There is plenty of private healthcare available in the UK. Of course you'll try to make the point that we're already paying for the NHS through taxes - but then our private healthcare is far cheaper, which accounts for that and ultimately, you're paying more in taxes for healthcare anyway.
And you likely have other reforms that apply to the healthcare system that make services cheaper. Yet we aren't even attempting to touch those issues here...which is why this "reform" option fails.
Maybe the reform option put forward does fail. But reform is clearly needed. The system is not run in the best interests of the nation (it is costly, it does not perform well on average - it is average performance that is most important to the health of the nation as a whole).
By what metric? By whose metric?
If you're going to reference the "37th place" findings from WHO...that's already been discredited in another thread. Sourced and everything, btw.
Bert wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
72% in a completely unfeasible scenario. Whereas the NHS figures look better than that. I haven't seen any recent UK wide polls, but here is a poll of Londoners opinions of the NHS.
Bertster7 wrote:
If there is no traceable source for the poll, the figure has in all likelihood been made up. Either by the news station you claim to have heard it on or by you.
Well, if you can't source (your data is just as well-sourced as mine was) the poll, you probably just made it up. Your numbers conflict with mine, so you're probably lying just to win an argument. You're just a pawn of the NHS.
Gee...that sounds snide, childish and flawed, doesn't it?
You want a source for that figure, no problem. It's from an
Ipsos MORI poll. The article itself can be seen
here.Of course you could have just put the direct quote I gave you into Google, if you really wanted a source....
The NHS is a long way from being the best system there is, but it's up there.
To take a page from your book...
Oh, I can't be bothered to actually research your claims. In fact, I won't even recognize that you provided a source. I'll just keep demanding that you provide a source to back up the data you've just given a source for...that's how it works here, isn't it?
