Articles like these are exactly the things I'm talking about. Whilst these are not quite as blatant lies as in the article from the OP, they are still extremely warped and misleading. The article about healthcare in Massachussets particularly so. The author essentially contradicts himself on a number of occasions.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Govt run healthcare has been tried in Hawaii and cancelled after 8 months... too many people left the private insurance
to use the free(it's not really free) healthcare and it overwhelmed the system in Hawaii...
http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/healthcare-failure/
Massachussets is govt run and also a disaster...
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/01/mass … -disaster/
Personally I think the NHS is a good thing, and no shit you'll be getting people attacking it from within and from the abroad for whatever reasons, but it works. I couldn't care less whether the US does private health care or not, that's their problem, but over here, I'm happy with the NHS.
At the end of the day whether it's the Government or Private Healthcare Lobbyists you're getting screwed over by someone higher up than you, might aswell be the government who at least aren't doing it for sheer profit and greed. I don't know or care, all I can say is that I'm glad that Private Lobbyists don't have as much influence over here as they do in the US, as shit like that scares me more than the Government. IMO.
The thing with the US is that there is probably a proportionally large amount of stupid people than most developed countries, which is why there's alot of resistance towards other people essentially paying for their healthcare. I mean the amount of gangbangers and rednecks and idiots you have is unmatched.
At the end of the day whether it's the Government or Private Healthcare Lobbyists you're getting screwed over by someone higher up than you, might aswell be the government who at least aren't doing it for sheer profit and greed. I don't know or care, all I can say is that I'm glad that Private Lobbyists don't have as much influence over here as they do in the US, as shit like that scares me more than the Government. IMO.
The thing with the US is that there is probably a proportionally large amount of stupid people than most developed countries, which is why there's alot of resistance towards other people essentially paying for their healthcare. I mean the amount of gangbangers and rednecks and idiots you have is unmatched.
And more than 85% of Americans are happy with the system here.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally I think the NHS is a good thing, and no shit you'll be getting people attacking it from within and from the abroad for whatever reasons, but it works. I couldn't care less whether the US does private health care or not, that's their problem, but over here, I'm happy with the NHS.
While I despise the lobbyists as well (on all sides), the perception that the companies that provide these services are "out to screw over" everyone is ridiculous. I have to deal with many small businesses regularly that provide medical care of one form or another and they are not--generally--doing it for "sheer profit and greed".Mekstizzle wrote:
At the end of the day whether it's the Government or Private Healthcare Lobbyists you're getting screwed over by someone higher up than you, might aswell be the government who at least aren't doing it for sheer profit and greed. I don't know or care, all I can say is that I'm glad that Private Lobbyists don't have as much influence over here as they do in the US, as shit like that scares me more than the Government. IMO.
The thing with the UK is that there is probably a proportionally larger amount of knuckleheads who make completely unfounded and ill-informed generalizations about the US. The number of insufferable, uninformed elitists you have is unmatched.Mekstizzle wrote:
The thing with the US is that there is probably a proportionally large amount of stupid people than most developed countries, which is why there's alot of resistance towards other people essentially paying for their healthcare. I mean the amount of gangbangers and rednecks and idiots you have is unmatched.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Really?FEOS wrote:
And more than 85% of Americans are happy with the system here.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally I think the NHS is a good thing, and no shit you'll be getting people attacking it from within and from the abroad for whatever reasons, but it works. I couldn't care less whether the US does private health care or not, that's their problem, but over here, I'm happy with the NHS.
Source for that? Is it just a figure you've heard thrown around?
Doesn't fit at all with the figures from a recent poll, which shows that 85% of Americans support healthcare reform.
I have little confidence in either figure.Reuters wrote:
But the Times/CBS poll found 85 percent of respondents wanted major healthcare reforms and most would be willing to pay higher taxes to ensure everyone had health insurance. An estimated 46 million Americans currently have no coverage.
As far as I can see from a combination of poll (in this case a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll) and census data, around 85% of Americans have health insurance. Of those more than three quarters are dissatisfied with the cost - though around 80% (of those covered) are happy with the quality of service. This is consistent with the results of polls conducted in the past.
The idea that all Americans with healthcare coverage are happy with it is clearly inaccurate. There are factors the majority with coverage are unhappy with and whilst overall satisfaction amongst those with coverage is generally good, it is obviously not universal - which it would need to be to achieve the figure of 85% of Americans being happy with their coverage under the current system (assuming that at least some of those without coverage are unhappy with their coverage - which is a fairly safe assumption).
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-08-14 05:21:53)
I would point out here that support for healthcare reform does not necessarily imply support for universal healthcare.which shows that 85% of Americans support healthcare reform.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Considering the complete quote from the article, not just from me, it does.Spark wrote:
I would point out here that support for healthcare reform does not necessarily imply support for universal healthcare.which shows that 85% of Americans support healthcare reform.
Does that not imply support for universal healthcare?But the Times/CBS poll found 85 percent of respondents wanted major healthcare reforms and most would be willing to pay higher taxes to ensure everyone had health insurance.
Er. Your poll is outdated.Bertster7 wrote:
Really?FEOS wrote:
And more than 85% of Americans are happy with the system here.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally I think the NHS is a good thing, and no shit you'll be getting people attacking it from within and from the abroad for whatever reasons, but it works. I couldn't care less whether the US does private health care or not, that's their problem, but over here, I'm happy with the NHS.
Source for that? Is it just a figure you've heard thrown around?
Doesn't fit at all with the figures from a recent poll, which shows that 85% of Americans support healthcare reform.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ … to_new_low
Yea 42% approve. Not 85%... You were saying?
*edit:
I forgot about this thread...
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=128198
Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-08-14 08:20:38)
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.lowing wrote:
Healthcare is not a right.
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.lowing wrote:
Healthcare is not a right.
EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.Article 25.
* (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
* (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Last edited by DrunkFace (2009-08-14 09:35:01)
Fuck the UN! Give me mah' Bill of Rights and Constitution any day.DrunkFace wrote:
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.lowing wrote:
Healthcare is not a right.EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.Article 25.
* (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
* (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Yep, Guns are much more important then health care.
Where did I post a gun>healthcare????DrunkFace wrote:
Yep, Guns are much more important then health care.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
About the time you quoted me about something health care specific and said, and I quote.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Where did I post a gun>healthcare????DrunkFace wrote:
Yep, Guns are much more important then health care.
"Fuck the UN! Give me mah' Bill of Rights and Constitution any day."
When the UN covers all rights plus more covered in your bill of rights, except the right to bear arms.
Sorta on topic.. hope Bert Doesn't mind .
damn,
http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/0 … hypocrisy/
The top Jon Stewart Video.
Talk about ownage .. And I am someone who doesn't support the proposed bills.
damn,
http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/0 … hypocrisy/
The top Jon Stewart Video.
Talk about ownage .. And I am someone who doesn't support the proposed bills.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
The UN? ahaahahahahahahahahahahaDrunkFace wrote:
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.lowing wrote:
Healthcare is not a right.EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.Article 25.
* (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
* (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
I know I know... But your government is a signitory of it, thus they should be responsible for it. But no one really follows the decleration.Red Forman wrote:
The UN? ahaahahahahahahahahahahaDrunkFace wrote:
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.Article 25.
* (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
* (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
If the alternative is doing nothing, I'd rather hear what the plan is tbh.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Haven't been on BF2s in ages, and I have to say, looking at this thread is downright depressing. I've been following the US's take on healthcare, and the sea of misinformation that's been leaking across the pond... I live in the UK. I'm pretty sure what's shown on US news - not even exclusively right-wing news, but just in general, is not NHS. I'm pretty sure that's the other one... uhm... oh yeah, made up.
Lies travel faster than truth ever will. How can the USA be paying some of the most expensive health care and still have a 30+ rank world wide, whilst the UK's free health care is 17th?
I'm Swiss, and we have health care such as is to be put in place in the USA - a combination of public, and private health care - and you can choose what you want, but there is a cheaper option for those unable to afford it. And we're rich - a lot of us can afford it...
I'm starting to give up on US intelligence in the neocon circles...
-kon
Lies travel faster than truth ever will. How can the USA be paying some of the most expensive health care and still have a 30+ rank world wide, whilst the UK's free health care is 17th?
I'm Swiss, and we have health care such as is to be put in place in the USA - a combination of public, and private health care - and you can choose what you want, but there is a cheaper option for those unable to afford it. And we're rich - a lot of us can afford it...
I'm starting to give up on US intelligence in the neocon circles...
-kon
Sorry, the UN does not supersede the US Constitution for US citizens. If the UN wants me to have UHC, then the WORLD, and not just US citizens can damn well pay for it for me.DrunkFace wrote:
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.lowing wrote:
Healthcare is not a right.EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.Article 25.
* (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
* (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
okay then we'll just ask for some monetary help from the richest country in the world, oh wait that's us.lowing wrote:
Sorry, the UN does not supersede the US Constitution for US citizens. If the UN wants me to have UHC, then the WORLD, and not just US citizens can damn well pay for it for me.DrunkFace wrote:
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.Article 25.
* (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
* (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
I admit we need healthcare reform, however, complete govt. is not the answer. the govt. can't even deliver the fucking mail efficiently. While the private sector soars doing so. Any explanation for that, other than fraud waste and abuse on behalf of the govt? Any reason to expect govt. to somehow be different regarding the running of my health care?konfusion wrote:
Haven't been on BF2s in ages, and I have to say, looking at this thread is downright depressing. I've been following the US's take on healthcare, and the sea of misinformation that's been leaking across the pond... I live in the UK. I'm pretty sure what's shown on US news - not even exclusively right-wing news, but just in general, is not NHS. I'm pretty sure that's the other one... uhm... oh yeah, made up.
Lies travel faster than truth ever will. How can the USA be paying some of the most expensive health care and still have a 30+ rank world wide, whilst the UK's free health care is 17th?
I'm Swiss, and we have health care such as is to be put in place in the USA - a combination of public, and private health care - and you can choose what you want, but there is a cheaper option for those unable to afford it. And we're rich - a lot of us can afford it...
I'm starting to give up on US intelligence in the neocon circles...
-kon
Sorry, if the UN wants to stick its nose into our national business, and demand my rights for me, then it can pay for it. Every nation within the UN needs to open up the purse strings and contribute to MY health care. If not, then they can shut up about what they think my rights should be, and their pipe dream of a human right declaration can be used for wiping asses.Narupug wrote:
okay then we'll just ask for some monetary help from the richest country in the world, oh wait that's us.lowing wrote:
Sorry, the UN does not supersede the US Constitution for US citizens. If the UN wants me to have UHC, then the WORLD, and not just US citizens can damn well pay for it for me.DrunkFace wrote:
Let me quote that for him.PureFodder wrote:
Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights disagrees with you.
EDIT: Ohhh I'm sure you'll just love some of the other "Rights" people are entitled too.
"I admit we need healthcare reform, however, complete govt. is not the answer."
So what's the answer then?
(this time I'm genuinely asking cos I want to know what your side thinks the correct solution would be, unless the correct solution is to just leave everything as it is)
So what's the answer then?
(this time I'm genuinely asking cos I want to know what your side thinks the correct solution would be, unless the correct solution is to just leave everything as it is)
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-08-15 05:11:28)
Just a little off topic question;
If you don't have insurance in America and you have to have an operation, what happens?
If you don't have insurance in America and you have to have an operation, what happens?
Your question assumes that I am searching for an answer that gives everyone free health care. I am not. For those that have health care, laws are needed to reel in insurance companies from telling doctors how to practice medicine.Mekstizzle wrote:
"I admit we need healthcare reform, however, complete govt. is not the answer."
So what's the answer then?
(this time I'm genuinely asking cos I want to know what your side thinks the correct solution would be, unless the correct solution is to just leave everything as it is)
Action needs to be taken to bring health costs back down to earth, this included action to stiffle frivolous lawsuits against healthcare providers. (and before you jump on that please note I said frivolous)
Laws need to be passed that protects those that are covered from the red tape insurance companies automatically wrap you up in when filing a claim.
As for the uninsured, they already recieve "free" healthcare since the bill was passed I believe in '68 that says no treatment shall be denied to those without coverage.