^^^^ So it has nothing to do with the VERY good salaries they make? ^^^^^^
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- CEA confession, well translated (sort of) by me
Yes, the money is there. Just recently, some of the top software developers at Rock Star (GTA fame), split over $15 million in stock options so they would stay with the company. Greed in part, but passion for development too.usmarine2005 wrote:
Pay the bills? If it is so bad working there.......get a different job, move into a condo or apartment and adjust you lifestyle. You want me to feel sorry for someone who, at least where I work, starts off close to six figures. The only reason they don't, and the reason most of us don't, is greed and vanity. So what I said is relavant to the last quote in your post.
Maybe I am being misunderstood. They do a great job, an amazing job sometimes. I am still addicted to this game. If I were making that money, I admitt it, I wouldn't leave either. But it would be my choice, and I wouldn't want people to feel sorry for me. With all that dough, I would just retire early.
I understand why they did it and it really doesn't bother me. You people have to understand that saying "all EA does is screw up the gameplay" is pure speculation. You know the old saying "opinions are like assholes." Well my particular hole likes the gameplay changes; ALL OF THEM. I think they were changes made with the pure intent of making the game as even as possible. Another thing; they ARE trying to fix the bugs. Every single job on the planet has workers that make mistakes. Did it ever occur to anyone that this particular bug was either not seen or deemed indectable until future releases? Essentially all they are doing is finding a new way to piss and moan. Maybe mommy and daddy ignored their cries for attention. Do gamers even like games anymore? If you never played any game in your life and read the shit that people write on theese forums, would you classify them as people who love to play video games?
Umm I'm just going to call you number guy. Your really the only person I know who does not mind a single change... How do you not see the bugs? I mean I loaded the 1.2 patch up and the 1.21 patch, go in the game. BOOM! Glitches all around. The changes were made to make the game better, or else it would not have been changed... but most of the community do not agree with them. Aka PKM sniper.
Dude, the cries for attention are from the noobs who made the changes happen... Major changes in gameplay so not be made when a game comes out... simply patches to help bugs and glitches/exploits to be fixed. Your only one of the few that are praising BF 2 completely.
Well. The thing with the bug-raising staff would probably rely on community outburst, as they rely on the community since they cannot find these bugs in the "testing stage." CEA got their time in fame, and sparked a HUGE discussion on all BF 2 forums, causing the community to realize wtf is with these patches that introduce more bugs.
Maybe that's why the there are so little praise coming from the gamers. We did a poll in the server, many people disliked what the patches were doing to Gameplay, but they still play hoping it will get better.
Dude, the cries for attention are from the noobs who made the changes happen... Major changes in gameplay so not be made when a game comes out... simply patches to help bugs and glitches/exploits to be fixed. Your only one of the few that are praising BF 2 completely.
Well. The thing with the bug-raising staff would probably rely on community outburst, as they rely on the community since they cannot find these bugs in the "testing stage." CEA got their time in fame, and sparked a HUGE discussion on all BF 2 forums, causing the community to realize wtf is with these patches that introduce more bugs.
Maybe that's why the there are so little praise coming from the gamers. We did a poll in the server, many people disliked what the patches were doing to Gameplay, but they still play hoping it will get better.
Last edited by joker8baller (2006-04-05 15:31:59)
Yes, overall, BF2 is an awesome game. For it's complexity, it's really not that buggy. The vast majority of the bugs that these people are griping about are really minor. Less so if there was no ranking system. People are so concerned about there stats that they will complain that they can't "pwn" every encounter. Back in my Far Cry days, I didn't mind getting killed tons of time, because kill and death counts didn't matter. I just had fun killing the enemy and taking the objectives "at all cost".usmarine2005 wrote:
Maybe I am being misunderstood. They do a great job, an amazing job sometimes. I am still addicted to this game. If I were making that money, I admitt it, I wouldn't leave either. But it would be my choice, and I wouldn't want people to feel sorry for me. With all that dough, I would just retire early.
Back to other topic. Most of them don't make the big bucks though. And those that do, it's relative. $150K a year for a 90 hour work week isn't much. Where I work, the VP's make over $65K every two weeks, for base pay. Double to tenfold that if you add stock options and bonuses.
Just did some more research on the EA lawsuit. 50% churn-rate for engineers at EA. Ouch, that's big. This sure explains the buggines of what EA is churning out. Have the experienced folks leave and bring in the new programmers who know nothing about the product.
http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.ht … 346#t35346
I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works.
Well said and I applaud the info. I do have to disagree with the salary comment. I work a little over 60 hours a week and only make just slightly over 50K. So I would say 150K for 90 hours is pretty damn good.Ilocano wrote:
Yes, overall, BF2 is an awesome game. For it's complexity, it's really not that buggy. The vast majority of the bugs that these people are griping about are really minor. Less so if there was no ranking system. People are so concerned about there stats that they will complain that they can't "pwn" every encounter. Back in my Far Cry days, I didn't mind getting killed tons of time, because kill and death counts didn't matter. I just had fun killing the enemy and taking the objectives "at all cost".usmarine2005 wrote:
Maybe I am being misunderstood. They do a great job, an amazing job sometimes. I am still addicted to this game. If I were making that money, I admitt it, I wouldn't leave either. But it would be my choice, and I wouldn't want people to feel sorry for me. With all that dough, I would just retire early.
Back to other topic. Most of them don't make the big bucks though. And those that do, it's relative. $150K a year for a 90 hour work week isn't much. Where I work, the VP's make over $65K every two weeks, for base pay. Double to tenfold that if you add stock options and bonuses.
Just did some more research on the EA lawsuit. 50% churn-rate for engineers at EA. Ouch, that's big. This sure explains the buggines of what EA is churning out. Have the experienced folks leave and bring in the new programmers who know nothing about the product.
http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.ht … 346#t35346
I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works.
Sorry for the extra post, but just jogged some memory. Thought it funny, with greed and vanity being the subject. Last Microsoft Software Architect conference I attended (this was at Disney's Grand California Hotel), while valet parking. Tons of Porches, Beemers and Mercedes. While lowly me driving my gas-friendly CR-V. Should have drove my "other" car too. LOL.usmarine2005 wrote:
The only reason they don't, and the reason most of us don't, is greed and vanity. So what I said is relavant to the last quote in your post.
BTW, are you in Software Development too?
For all other folks, sorry for going tangent on the CEA topic.
Tons of Porches, Beemers and Mercedes <--- waste of money. my WRX would smoke the shit outta the listed cars
Yeah, true, but which ones would get the girls. 10 years ago, when I had my Mitsubishi 3000GT, it was unique enough that valet would park it in the front of the restaurant, next to my bosses XK8 and SL500. Driving it at UCLA, San Diego, Newport Beach, and watch all the eyes thinking it was an exotic car. Girls would come up to the window asking what it was. Awesome experience without having to spend six-figures. All hail Bill Gates: when us "computer geeks" can get the babes.dankassasin42o wrote:
Tons of Porches, Beemers and Mercedes <--- waste of money. my WRX would smoke the shit outta the listed cars
damn, spending too much time here. Back to work...
Last edited by Ilocano (2006-04-05 16:29:23)
SO, if all you (these) people are pissed off about EA not so-called cleaning up their mess before releasing patches and add-ons, why do you people continue to play and pay EA?
This is the same thing as going back to McDonalds every time after complaining about the crappy food!!!
This is the same thing as going back to McDonalds every time after complaining about the crappy food!!!
McDonalds doesn't have crappy food! Well, that's what I think anyway.. lol
Last edited by Papa Smurf 314 (2006-04-05 19:12:08)
I am a game developer and I wish I made anywhere close to $150k. Not sure where your information comes from, but that kind of salary isn't the norm. According to the 2005 salary survey conducted by Game Developer Magazine the median income is ~68k for a programmer with 3-6 years of experience; lead programmers can make ~$80k. In my experience these numbers aren't too far off. Much of the outsized compensation you hear about are bonuses or royalties for a game that sells well (and believe me that isn't very many compared to the number that are released). Yes, there are a few individuals who's salaries are quite high - but that's true of other discplines as well.usmarine2005 wrote:
Well said and I applaud the info. I do have to disagree with the salary comment. I work a little over 60 hours a week and only make just slightly over 50K. So I would say 150K for 90 hours is pretty damn good.
EA has studios in some very expensive places. A salary of $150k doesn't go as far in Los Angeles as it might in say, Des Moines (and no I haven't done a cost-of-living analysis, its just an example).
So, ~$68-$80k for your average programmer for 90+ hours a week? Still, not bad. But not very close to your $150k either.
Do I do this just for the money? Not on your life. If I had stayed in the industry that I had put 10+ years in my salary would definitely be higher and I would be working *far* less hours. After 5 years in game development I still do it because I enjoy being around other gamers. Would I do it for half my salary? Prolly not - how would I afford all the bf2 boosters then?
DISCLAIMER: I am not an employee of EA.
They are not as pissed as they act maybe? I guess aside from the bugs they just want games perfectly matched around THIER gameplay.KX500Racer wrote:
SO, if all you (these) people are pissed off about EA not so-called cleaning up their mess before releasing patches and add-ons, why do you people continue to play and pay EA?
This is the same thing as going back to McDonalds every time after complaining about the crappy food!!!
Last edited by Kmarion (2006-04-05 19:40:39)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Naw... It's more like it's becoming unbalanced. I adapt, but seriously. Fix the glitches with patches, don't introduce new ones..
You are an idiot. It's "why" not "y." Idiot.=YC-UK=Declan wrote:
if they knew bout the glitch at first y did they perform the glitch???*ToRRo*cT| wrote:
they dont do if for their own personal gain idiot.=YC-UK=Declan wrote:
what a noob clan
they just having a protest against EA
let them be , they're not stupid though coz i agree with them on some points
and y so many points and ohh ya dont call me idiot
So many points because they were making a point. They performed the glitch to protest EA.
You lack reading skills. Or comprehension, for that matter.
we need people like this, i got a idear, if EVRYONE in the whole bf2s comunity, did this for 200000points, then reseting would be optionless, cause it would be around ????? more then 30000 acounts ;-) and evryone then has all unlockablesExecutionerStyle wrote:
Babelfish sucks balls, so I'll translate their thing by myself to the best of my ability
Please, do not annoy us for what we have done. We are the type of people who think that in-game, rankings are meaningless.
With this, we have precisely demonstrated what we mean. I don't really understand why you are annoyed with us. We're from the same 'band' (group of people I'm guessing). If you really think we did it for our benefit, why would we put Sinkope at 16 million points when the others are below 400,000?
If we did want to do this for our benefit, we would have been much more subtle, such as not making such a huge points difference.
Once again, we are all in the same boat. With this we have demonstrated that rankings are not worth or mean shit. We love this game, but EA 'touches our balls' (literal translation, they're tying to say that EA pisses them off) a lot with their shitty expansions we have to pay for. Personally, we think they're a bunch of crooks, with an intent to charge for everything (Euro Force was a joke, we can't believe they charged for it). That's why we decided that we wanted to show them that they do things wrong.
Please, do not hate CEA for this. We don't find ourselves higher than others. We're a new clan and we know we've started off with a bad reputation.
I also want to clarify that we have not used any cheat or hack. We haven't modified the game files or used an external application. We simply found a bug in the game, and have exploited it to show to mock EA.
Finally, we ask for forgiveness from those who we've confused or annoyed tonight. Please, don't hate us, we were simply dicking around with what we discovered and we really do want fair gameplay in our server. Please accept our apologies, you are all welcome to our server.
Thank you.
PS: EA: We don't give two shits if you reset our stats. As long as these bugs aren't fixed, we'll keep making new accounts and giving ourselves massive scores. We at CEA believe you have brought this unto yourselves for trying to milk money out of the consumer, when the original product has major bugs like what we found. We hope that with all the money you make, we'll one day get a free expansion (probably mean content).
CROOKS!
Wow that took a while. But there you go, as close to a perfect translation as it can be, way better than that babelfish crap.
someone from the -=B.A.D=- clan, had this unintentualy, he got a best round score of over 700 but it added ..... over 1400 points, for 1 round, so lucky
Should have been more clear with the numbers. As I don't work for a gaming company, they are just estimates. In the Fortune 500 Corporate world, Project Leaders and low level IT Software development managers make around $120K for 40-50 hour weeks. General programmer wages are across the board, from $40K to $200K+. It all depends on what skill set is in demand and how much your company needs you. Some employees don't have guts to ask for more pay because their skill sets are not very marketable. On the other hand, some know full well that they are key IT to the company, and demand top compensation and bonuses. Also, we pay Consultant agencies somewhere from $100-$300 per hour depending on the role, programmer/senior/lead. The actual employee from the consulting firm would probably get half of this rate.GameDeveloper wrote:
EA has studios in some very expensive places. A salary of $150k doesn't go as far in Los Angeles as it might in say, Des Moines (and no I haven't done a cost-of-living analysis, its just an example).
So, ~$68-$80k for your average programmer for 90+ hours a week? Still, not bad. But not very close to your $150k either.
Do I do this just for the money? Not on your life. If I had stayed in the industry that I had put 10+ years in my salary would definitely be higher and I would be working *far* less hours. After 5 years in game development I still do it because I enjoy being around other gamers. Would I do it for half my salary? Prolly not - how would I afford all the bf2 boosters then?
But back to the bug question. Can you share your own experience why games are shipped buggy? Can you share your patching experiences?
Holy shit!!
These guys are freaking idiots!! Don't they understand that EA could be charging us what ever they want in order for us to play this awesome game on-line!?!?!?!?!!! I mean, come on!! How is it a rip-off to be able to play this online for FREE!!?!???!?!!!???
If these A-holes are going to whine and moan this much, than they should create their own game!! And maybe then they'll see how much hard work EA went to to put out this game. And put it out for FREE! I mean, in reality it's not expensive. $50 bucks for BF2, $10 for EF, $30 for SF. Not bad considering you don't pay anything for actual game play.
I don't see any reason for them to complain so much about the price. And I certianly don't see why they (and every other idiot out there) feel it necessary to purposely screw with the game. What's that going to accomplish?!?!?! Just to show that "WOW, I hacked the game." So what. That takes no skill. Try growing some hairy balls and get in the action to bring up your score the manly way!!!!!
Well, 'nuff said 'bout that. It just pisses me off when people complain so much.
Oh!! And look at the other online games out there where you have to pay $15/mo plus bucks to play!!!!!!
These guys are freaking idiots!! Don't they understand that EA could be charging us what ever they want in order for us to play this awesome game on-line!?!?!?!?!!! I mean, come on!! How is it a rip-off to be able to play this online for FREE!!?!???!?!!!???
If these A-holes are going to whine and moan this much, than they should create their own game!! And maybe then they'll see how much hard work EA went to to put out this game. And put it out for FREE! I mean, in reality it's not expensive. $50 bucks for BF2, $10 for EF, $30 for SF. Not bad considering you don't pay anything for actual game play.
I don't see any reason for them to complain so much about the price. And I certianly don't see why they (and every other idiot out there) feel it necessary to purposely screw with the game. What's that going to accomplish?!?!?! Just to show that "WOW, I hacked the game." So what. That takes no skill. Try growing some hairy balls and get in the action to bring up your score the manly way!!!!!
Well, 'nuff said 'bout that. It just pisses me off when people complain so much.
Oh!! And look at the other online games out there where you have to pay $15/mo plus bucks to play!!!!!!
We may end up paying monthly for BF3... It's the trend. Check out Oblivion, on both the PC and XBOX versions, for a single-player game!!! The company is asking money for cosmetic horse armor. Amount is negligible ($1.50 I think), but it's a troubling trend. Moders are locked from adding this feature themselves. And much like BF2 versus BF1942, moders are getting screwed with less ability to shape the game. These companies want to lock all expansions and customizations to bleed as much profit as they can. What they don't realize is that the moders are what keeps the game going after a year or two after release.StudMuffin21 wrote:
Holy shit!!
These guys are freaking idiots!! Don't they understand that EA could be charging us what ever they want in order for us to play this awesome game on-line!?!?!?!?!!! I mean, come on!! How is it a rip-off to be able to play this online for FREE!!?!???!?!!!???
If these A-holes are going to whine and moan this much, than they should create their own game!! And maybe then they'll see how much hard work EA went to to put out this game. And put it out for FREE! I mean, in reality it's not expensive. $50 bucks for BF2, $10 for EF, $30 for SF. Not bad considering you don't pay anything for actual game play.
I don't see any reason for them to complain so much about the price. And I certianly don't see why they (and every other idiot out there) feel it necessary to purposely screw with the game. What's that going to accomplish?!?!?! Just to show that "WOW, I hacked the game." So what. That takes no skill. Try growing some hairy balls and get in the action to bring up your score the manly way!!!!!
Well, 'nuff said 'bout that. It just pisses me off when people complain so much.
Oh!! And look at the other online games out there where you have to pay $15/mo plus bucks to play!!!!!!
Last edited by Ilocano (2006-04-06 12:04:30)
So your saying all those (rented from EA) ranked-servers are not creating revenue for EA?Ilocano wrote:
We may end up paying monthly for BF3... It's the trend. Check out Oblivion, on both the PC and XBOX versions, for a single-player game!!! The company is asking money for cosmetic horse armor. Amount is negligible ($1.50 I think), but it's a troubling trend. Moders are locked from adding this feature themselves. And much like BF2 versus BF1942, moders are getting screwed with less ability to shape the game. These companies want to lock all expansions and customizations to bleed as much profit as they can. What they don't realize is that the moders are what keeps the game going after a year or two after release.StudMuffin21 wrote:
Holy shit!!
These guys are freaking idiots!! Don't they understand that EA could be charging us what ever they want in order for us to play this awesome game on-line!?!?!?!?!!! I mean, come on!! How is it a rip-off to be able to play this online for FREE!!?!???!?!!!???
If these A-holes are going to whine and moan this much, than they should create their own game!! And maybe then they'll see how much hard work EA went to to put out this game. And put it out for FREE! I mean, in reality it's not expensive. $50 bucks for BF2, $10 for EF, $30 for SF. Not bad considering you don't pay anything for actual game play.
I don't see any reason for them to complain so much about the price. And I certianly don't see why they (and every other idiot out there) feel it necessary to purposely screw with the game. What's that going to accomplish?!?!?! Just to show that "WOW, I hacked the game." So what. That takes no skill. Try growing some hairy balls and get in the action to bring up your score the manly way!!!!!
Well, 'nuff said 'bout that. It just pisses me off when people complain so much.
Oh!! And look at the other online games out there where you have to pay $15/mo plus bucks to play!!!!!!
I think otherwise.
They could be making anywhere between 50 to 250K per month on BF2 ranked server leases; but I don't know the actual number of lease contracts.
Ranked servers cost about $5-$10 per slot per server per month. That is by no means FREE. Free for on-line gamers that don't lease - but somebody somewhere is paying for that lease if it isn't an official EA server.
And in light of that. . . I think the CEA stunt hits the nail on the head - dead center.
1.) Fake ranks, ribbons & medals - someone is renting a server for this nonsense!
2.) Meaningless STATS - someone is renting a server for this nonsense!
Sure the unlocks are a minor goal - but so what - once you have them all - so what.
Bravo CEA!
Last edited by topal63 (2006-04-06 13:54:55)
Nope. You hit the nail on the head. EA should be content with the revenue of the ranked servers. If EA will just give free content, and open up the ranked servers to moders (maps approved by EA of course), BF2 will stay alive far longer than restricting content. Having to pay for few content will lose users to the latest and greatest new game released. But by constantly refreshing BF2 with new free content and maps, the user base won't get so bored. Users bored, far less ranked servers long term. Users not bored, rank server counts will decrease less freqeuntly.topal63 wrote:
So your saying all those (rented from EA) ranked-servers are not creating revenue for EA?
I think otherwise.
They could be making anywhere between 50 to 250K per month on BF2 ranked server leases; but I don't know the actual number of lease contracts.
Ranked servers cost about $5-$10 per slot per sever per month. That is by no means FREE. Free for on-line gamers that don't lease - but somebody somewhere is paying for that lease if it isn't an official EA server.
And in light of that. . . I think the CEA stunt hits the nail on the head - dead center.
1.) Fake ranks, ribbons & medals - someone is renting a server for this nonsense!
2.) Meaningless STATS - someone is renting a server for this nonsense!
Sure the unlocks are a minor goal - but so what - once you have them all - so what.
Bravo CEA!
If they really did want to make the expansions free, they should have held the hack random until ea released them to the public, saying they would release the hack or ea would release EF and SF and later AF.
why do they all have F's?
why do they all have F's?
Why keep it a secret the more people exploit this the sooner they will fix it...
So here it is.
1. each round ends on ranked server
2. server connects to EA stat server
3. sending (modified score)
4 ack
5 thank you for your points.
all you need is ranked server and few people on it modify the outgoing score hash and youre in for some fun
I did not check this but it is how its done or very close to it.
CEA should not get credited for this exploit, who should be credited for it you may ask.. Leave that question to few in top ladder (let's not mention names)
So here it is.
1. each round ends on ranked server
2. server connects to EA stat server
3. sending (modified score)
4 ack
5 thank you for your points.
all you need is ranked server and few people on it modify the outgoing score hash and youre in for some fun
I did not check this but it is how its done or very close to it.
CEA should not get credited for this exploit, who should be credited for it you may ask.. Leave that question to few in top ladder (let's not mention names)
Last edited by alpinestar (2006-04-06 21:54:29)
I just found a link to how the exploit is done, and I was happy to see that I was right in thinking that this "hack" really doesn't mean much to EA. I mean you need to be a frickin admin to a Ranked Server. Those run what, 100 bucks for the cheapest with a good contract? Not many people are gonna want to do such a stupid and obvious hack just to hope they get extra points that go unnoticed by EA. This could also mean, like I thought before, that there won't be a patch that addresses this problem because it could be fixed directly in EA stats server.
This hack does nothing to affect my gameplay, all I've seen it done is change the top 10 rankings, big Fing deal. It is useless at best if you ask me.
So great finding C.E.A people, it's a good exploit I must say. But haha, EA rethinking their strategy and fearing that gamers are all gonna start doing this until we get free stuff, we can keep on dreaming.
This hack does nothing to affect my gameplay, all I've seen it done is change the top 10 rankings, big Fing deal. It is useless at best if you ask me.
So great finding C.E.A people, it's a good exploit I must say. But haha, EA rethinking their strategy and fearing that gamers are all gonna start doing this until we get free stuff, we can keep on dreaming.
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