Pyrosity
Member
+0|6616|Colorado
A huge number of players these days it seems always use the SpecOps kit. It is easy to see why; you get a pretty good weapon (even without unlocks) that is great for anywhere from close to almost long range. You get two types of explosives, grenades and C4, the latter being able to take out most anything with just two detpacks. You also get a silenced pistol, and you can run just as far as medic/engineer/sniper without sacrificing too much firepower.

To me this is peculiar, as it lends itself to the SpecOps class replacing Assault/AT classes roles. Not only can SF run longer than either of these two classes, but the difference between the heavier armour sported by the Assault/AT/Support classes and the lighter armour by the others is ... well, I can't really notice a difference other than how much stamina you get.

As I said, SpecOps can take out pretty much anything with C4. Hell, people use it in infantry combat, for christ sake. Two packs to take out Armour, even. You run up behind the poor chap, chuck a couple sacks up his ass and press the button, boom, armour gone. For the Anti-TANK class to take out Armour, is much harder (even though his rockets are ranged and SpecOps has to get right next to tank). I've seen a tank take upwards of 4 AT rockets and just smoke. But a new tank goes down with just two C4.

AT class gets no respect, no love. Hardly anyone plays it unless the enemy team is raping with Armour. He gets a shitty SMG for a primary weapon, no grenades, a pistol and a knife. Granted, the AT rocket can take out armour and even infantry if you aim right, but if you're pinned down in front of the thing, can't get around it, chances are your spawn point will be gone before that tank is, unless he decides to retreat. The DAO-12 has some use, but only at extremely short ranges (which is why I haven't unlocked it yet). The P90 seems... broken. I don't think I'll unlock it just yet. That leaves me with the standard SMGs. Though I could have unlocked the DAO or P90 by now, I doubt it would have helped all that much. Both of them seem useless at long ranges, I'll take my Bizon/MP5 any day over them just for the small increace in accuracy. The chinese SMG is just plain worthless for anything but spraying at someone less than 2 meters away.

AT class is also slow, and even though he has heavy armour, like I said, it doesn't seem to make too much a difference in the end. Even with support from other players/squadmates/buddies, AT class dies easy if he can't stay undetected.

SpecOps kit can kick the ass of just about anything or anyone else. If BF2 is to have balance, I believe that every kit needs to have a specific purpose - and every kit must know and keep their purpose in mind. The SpecOps came in and destroyed whatever the AT class had to offer, and the only thing Assault class has over Spec is that he can have the GL, or a G3 (which I love, and cherish. Was my first unlock; the thing is perfect, don't change it). With the G36C/SCAR-L the SpecOps kit has accuracy and power - and thats what it boils down to when you're trying to kill people, you have to put some lead into them, and it has to do some damage.

The C4 is also ... ugh. Just not right. Even if it is under-powered compared to real C4, at the power it is ingame, you shouldn't be able to plant C4 on the side of a tank and blow it to peices. The number one way to disable a tank is by peircing the armour and killing the crew - and I just don't see explosives planted outside the tank directly on the armour plating doing that. They'd probably scorch the thing up, dent it, whatever, but they would not blow the whole tank to peices. You'd have to plant the charges on the treads, or under/above the thing where the armour is particularily thin. I don't think it matters to the game where you plant C4 on a tank, just two packs and boom, no more tank. They could have been planted on top of the radio for gods sake.
Also, tanks should be able to take out stuff like UAV and radar dish. Not artillary - those things are made to widthstand firing howitzer shells, and are a lot of strong metal. But the UAV? Its a fucking metal shack, and the Radar is a tin-can. A tank shell to that dish would absolutely decimate it to no end, and a shell to the trailer would probably make the thing explode all over the airfield. Hell, even tossing a grenade near the UAV should do something, those things just are not meant to take a beating. But nooo, you need C4 to take them out. Christ. I understand SpecOps needs to do something, but right now, SpecOps does just about EVERYTHING.

The only kits the SpecOps hasn't overrun are those that literally no other kit can do - medic, support, engineer, sniper to an extent. SpecOps can do everything AT/Assault can do, and usually better.


Grah. Go ahead and flame me, I won't care. I'm tired of playing my favourite kit, AT, and getting repeatedly raped by some cocky SpecOps bastard with a SCAR-L every time I spawn (or try to do anything for that matter). My hard work spent sneaking up on a tank and pounding it from many directions is consistantly soiled and trodden upon by an enemy SpecOps gunning me down, or a friendly one robbing me of my tank kill.
Just needed to get that off my chest.
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6642|Home of the Escalade Herds
I think the AT kit needs a nerf, i see tons of people using all the time to kill both people, armor, light vehicles (which pop in 1 shot) and choppers. You get the RL and a gun and you're lucky for that.

Why doesn't a sniper rifle get an SMG as well? The sniper rifles are useless in close range combat, you have to depend on your pistol or knife, heh. Ever been a sniper?

AT's should have the launcher, pistol and knife, thats it.

About seeing more specops then AT, thats bs, i see tons more AT then spec-ops. You're talking like it's easy to just walk up to a tank and plant c4 on it. That really only works on the tight city maps in the middle of mayhem. Most of the time it results in the specops suiciding to get the kill...
rgraze
Member
+6|6689
The AT is under powered.  If you dont hit a mec jeep or humvee just right it doesnt explode with one shot or the rocket will fly right through the vehicle.  Ive actually tested this out and found that the only direct kill shot is in the radiator.  Also shooting a chopper with an AT rocket once should bring it down.
Pyrosity
Member
+0|6616|Colorado
I've played sniper. True, they aren't much for close-combat at all, but they do have claymores and a pistol. If they can't defend themselves with two claymores and a pistol... I don't know what. They should be focusing on finding a good hiding spot, picking off important targets like enemy Spec/Medics, those capping flags.

As for AT rocket killings... I don't see them overtly often. I've gotten a few but they are almost always in an up close and personal situation. If there are more than one enemy, I'm most likely dead after my first shot of rocket. The things have the longest infantry weapon reload as far as I can tell, and you only get 5. Choppers are very hard to hit if they aren't hovering, though you can usually pop a transport chopper if he's close enough. Cars/vans pop because they have no armour on them, and a lot of the time they move too fast to get a clean shot off unless they're trying to run you down / are going directly towards you.
I find that very few weapons are harder to kill with than the SMGs. Perhaps default shotguns, and the M16 maybe, Sniper rifles of course. Pretty much everything else is easier to score a kill, sometimes even pistols, because you're going to have to empty your entire magazine in most cases to get them.

I know how hard it is to run up and C4 a tank. I've tried it; I'm really not that good at it myself. But like I said, when I spend a good few minutes just trying to take out a single tank, and a SpecOps comes in with the luck of a C4 kill. It just gets really annoying. Either that happens, or nobody can kill the tank until someone takes the time to drive the friendly tank out to the enemy tank, and actually win.

All the SpecOps has to do is plant that C4 and flip the switch. Hard, yes, but much quicker and sometimes easier than trying to pump a good 3-4 AT rockets into him - without getting your spawn point taken, and without being repeatedly killed.


And the only thing people play these days is those tight city maps like Karkand. I hardly see a GOOD server running many chinese maps (which I prefer).
JimKong
Member
+31|6659|Ohio

PRiMACORD wrote:

I think the AT kit needs a nerf, i see tons of people using all the time to kill both people, armor, light vehicles (which pop in 1 shot) and choppers. You get the RL and a gun and you're lucky for that.
Claymores and C4 kill with one pop. Your point? Have you ever played AT? The guns are borderline useless. Plus how often do you see an AT with 30 kills (aside from those rare occasions of fully loaded vehicles).

Oh, and AT is the most robbed class. I don't know how many times I've sacrificed a few lives to get in one of two hits on armor just to have someone else finish it off without even getting a kill assist.
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6664|Peoria
Bwahah, you just don't know how to USE AT.

First off, you need to know what it takes to kill a vehicle.

A tank will go down to either 2 AT rockets to the Back of the tank, or 2 AT rockets to the FRONT TREADS.

Any other spot requires 3 or more shots. (There are a few spots on the tank that take no damage, like the gunner hatch. Don't hit those).

Also, the game pounds that whole thing about the tank being weak under the cannon. Don't fall for it. It's impractical, suicidal, and still takes 2 shots. Back or Front Treads are way safer.

Next, prep your shot. If your in an alleyway, wait around the corner for the tank to pass, pop out and shoot it in the back. Then wait and see what it does, if it turns to find you, quickly relocate to safety. If your coordinating with another AT player(GOOD IDEA), then this would be a great time for him to pop out and shoot the tank in the front tread, killing the tank. If you aren't, then relocate and pop the tank in the back again.

APC's are slightly different animal. They are MUCH weaker, but they are a little better at finding and shooting you. The key here is tag n' move. Tag them once with a good shot and then MOVE. An APC whore WILL Find you if you don't move your ass. Once you relocate, he's done, because an APC only takes 2 shots, to any part of the body.

For Armor columns of engineers, you NEED 3 AT guys. 2 won't cut it. Once you get your 3 guys, concentrate on the APC's. 3 shots and its done, solong as the shots hit simultaneously. Once the APC's go down. The tank is meat. (Note that on matches with many APC's like Karkand, if you tripleshot an APC in a column of 2 APC's and a Tank, usually it will spook the second APC and it will flee, leaving the tank a sitting duck.)

Also, support your tank if your AT.
dedelus
Member
+4|6671
i agree, they definatly need to beef up the anti tank rocket, have it do equal damage to a vehicle that a tank does at least, but absolutly zero splash damage to the sucker as well.  as for the gun, i really dont find a problem  with the base, you just need to play it smart, and avoid the killers such as assult, support and spec ops.
specialistx2324
hahahahahhaa
+244|6706|arica harbour
ahh spec ops .... the one class i built my battlefield 2 gaming experience on. i have dedicated many long hours improving my game as spec ops. this is the one class i love to death. ill play spec ops as long as i can.


the key trick to being a spec ops player is two things..
1) work alone and work in small sqads
2) stealth is the key here.

i can 90% of the time kill a tank with two packs of c4. the key trick is to come from a direction he does not expect you. wait until you are in close range where you see him but he cant see you.. when his turret is not facing you run and plant 2 of those bad boys. then run a few feet away and make him pay for it.

the key trick is to take your opponent from behind always.... use cover and obstacles to hide.. you have to think like a child playing hide and go seek. trust me. if you can see him and he cant see you is a very sweet feeling.

being spec ops is not as easy as it looks.. we have to be 10x smarter than the assult, support, and at class. whatever you do, dont run and gun with spec ops. that is a no no.......
Pyrosity
Member
+0|6616|Colorado
Granted those are good points to keep in mind; but too many a time I've been in a situation where you have less than a second to pop your shot or you're dead. Example would be having an M1 on karkand at the main street before square, well supported by assaulting infantry, perhaps even an APC or two. Near impossible to aim for anything, you just have to try and HIT the damn thing before you die. All too often I'm caught running circles around a building trying to fight off a tank or APC and I run out of stamina and just can't make it without eating dirt. That, and my main squad-mate is a SpecOps whore (oh fun fun. He's trying to get vet transport badge and I'm fending off 2 tanks, an APC and 12 other infantry).


Edit: was in reply to above post about beign able to play AT class right

Last edited by Pyrosity (2006-04-03 20:55:37)

blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6662

PRiMACORD wrote:

I think the AT kit needs a nerf, i see tons of people using all the time to kill both people, armor, light vehicles (which pop in 1 shot) and choppers. You get the RL and a gun and you're lucky for that.

Why doesn't a sniper rifle get an SMG as well? The sniper rifles are useless in close range combat, you have to depend on your pistol or knife, heh. Ever been a sniper?

AT's should have the launcher, pistol and knife, thats it.

About seeing more specops then AT, thats bs, i see tons more AT then spec-ops. You're talking like it's easy to just walk up to a tank and plant c4 on it. That really only works on the tight city maps in the middle of mayhem. Most of the time it results in the specops suiciding to get the kill...
yeah I see more AT people the specops, especially when playing city maps
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6642|Home of the Escalade Herds

dedelus wrote:

i agree, they definatly need to beef up the anti tank rocket, have it do equal damage to a vehicle that a tank does at least, but absolutly zero splash damage to the sucker as well.  as for the gun, i really dont find a problem  with the base, you just need to play it smart, and avoid the killers such as assult, support and spec ops.
Yeah great idea, then we'll have AT guys driving tanks, they'll shoot another tank then eject, pop off a rocket to finish the job...nice. Or the gunner on top can be AT and do the same...

2 man squads of AT soldiers will drive tanks into extinction, not to mention APCs.

AT is fine, you're just not good enough with it. Like the man a few posts above me wrote, it only takes 2 rockets to kill a tank if you know what you're doing. I've seen countless AT guys stand out in the open to pop a rocket off at my tank (brave souls)...if you're doing that you should stop. Make use of cover and you should be at the very least be able to drive off tanks if not kill them.
mofo65
Member
+6|6648|Valrico, FL USA

rgraze wrote:

The AT is under powered.  If you dont hit a mec jeep or humvee just right it doesnt explode with one shot or the rocket will fly right through the vehicle.  Ive actually tested this out and found that the only direct kill shot is in the radiator.  Also shooting a chopper with an AT rocket once should bring it down.
Agreed nothing like an AT round going though or under a vechilce w/o anything happening, it's almost like EA made the weapon hit only 75% of the time, and this is 20' away i'm not that bad of a shot.
mofo65
Member
+6|6648|Valrico, FL USA

mofo65 wrote:

rgraze wrote:

The AT is under powered.  If you dont hit a mec jeep or humvee just right it doesnt explode with one shot or the rocket will fly right through the vehicle.  Ive actually tested this out and found that the only direct kill shot is in the radiator.  Also shooting a chopper with an AT rocket once should bring it down.
Agreed nothing like an AT round going though or under a vechilce w/o anything happening, it's almost like EA made the weapon hit only 75% of the time, and this is 20' away i'm not that bad of a shot.
VEHICLE
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6753|Salt Lake City

I play AT quite a bit.  I love the DAO-12 and have numerous kills with it.  It's not my primary class, but when the situation calls for it, I'm by no means indimidated at using to take out armor, and even ground troops.
rgraze
Member
+6|6689
Well I have to say that while an AT in a tank, You shot him once with the tank and pop out and hit him with the AT rocket.  Almost always finishes him off, but it is tricky to do that with out being killed when jumping out.  Good tatctic I say.
mofo65
Member
+6|6648|Valrico, FL USA

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

I play AT quite a bit.  I love the DAO-12 and have numerous kills with it.  It's not my primary class, but when the situation calls for it, I'm by no means indimidated at using to take out armor, and even ground troops.
Agreed, it doesn' have any range, but you just fire a round, hide around the corner and it will suckers them right into a face full of buckshot.
<b|k> lukie
Member
+7|6739|Germany
The armor vest of the AT causes many deaths, because of stamina reduction. :-\
And don't forget: Eryx is a perfect anti infantry weapon at any range. DAO is good for ranges smaller than 3 meters, eryx for ranges bigger then 2 meters. Before 1.2 it was really cool: A nice sprint jump towards an enemy and fire in mid air.
ExquisiteDeth86
is still a BF2 Gunnery Sgt.
+16|6677|H3ITWP
Only 2 shots to the front treads?or the back??bullshit.
every time i go to kill a tank it takes more than 5 shots no matter where it is.
the amount of shots needed to kill a tank should be changed. You think its easy to calculate where the weak spots in the tank when its hunting you down knowing your hiding nearby?bullshit.
[CANADA]_Zenmaster
Pope Picard II
+473|6763

ExquisiteDeth86 wrote:

Only 2 shots to the front treads?or the back??bullshit.
every time i go to kill a tank it takes more than 5 shots no matter where it is.
the amount of shots needed to kill a tank should be changed. You think its easy to calculate where the weak spots in the tank when its hunting you down knowing your hiding nearby?bullshit.
It usually takes three. It is rare even with a well practiced shot to get two. Usually there are supply crates, or engies around the tanks in the urban maps so you will be lucky to get it down with three. If you are working alone it can be a real thankless task.
rgraze
Member
+6|6689
2 shots can kill it.  Over course the tank has to be still and you have to aim just right.  Works in the lab but not so much in real "gaming" life.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6664
2 AT kits work better than 1 Spec op for taking out a tank any day. What you need to do is stop bitching, unlock the Dao and find a friend. Then you will see the power of AT.
Rick_Biessman
Member
+4|6794|Germany
Yeah, since I play AT (and Support; long time ago, for badges), I know the how to use the pistol.

Close range:
DAO-12 is a must. Fire quick, aim for the stomach since your cursor moves up with the shots. CQC killer, only the PKM etc. is the real killer now.

Mid and Long Range:
- Your enemy decides to take prone position, lower than yours? Take the AT (not RPG-7 if not practiced, it drops) and have an easy kill. Snipers on higher positions are also fun to take out, but you have to shoot first.

- Your enemy noticed an easy kill since you don't carry an assault rifle? Right running to your position? Take the pistol, aim and unload it into the approaching target. Here you have also fire quick, like with the DAO-12.

Fighting against armored vehicles:
They are the killing machines! Spot them, shoot (with aiming where you expect him to move) and take cover. Watch out not to croutch behind an obstacle with a wall behind, you won't live long enough to see the spotted enemy disappearing from the RADAR. Move a bit and shoot until he seeks shelter or blows up.

Fighting against smoking or non-armored vehicles:
Assume his path, prepare for firing and pray the rocket not going through the steal (very annoying).

Shooting aircrafts
- Hovering or starting jets can be shoot, everything else is a waste of ammo.
- Choppers hovering or flying straight away from you, especially for flag capture are an easy target. Shoot from the rear to avoid being detected by the gunner. 2 hits and every chopper will be in big trouble (beside the air bus filled with engis )

At last:
You shoot and someone else gets the kill for it, that happens. But you are big obstacle for armors moving on (if trained in shooting tanks) and when the tank is trying to avoid being shot, he won't kill your teammates and perhaps, the C4 or AT mine carries already the tank pilots name

Last edited by Rick_Biessman (2006-04-05 15:22:16)

PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6642|Home of the Escalade Herds

ExquisiteDeth86 wrote:

Only 2 shots to the front treads?or the back??bullshit.
every time i go to kill a tank it takes more than 5 shots no matter where it is.
the amount of shots needed to kill a tank should be changed. You think its easy to calculate where the weak spots in the tank when its hunting you down knowing your hiding nearby?bullshit.
Man you really don't know what you're doing if it takes you more then 5 shots to kill a tank.
deject
Got His War On
+37|6791|Golden, CO

ExquisiteDeth86 wrote:

Only 2 shots to the front treads?or the back??bullshit.
every time i go to kill a tank it takes more than 5 shots no matter where it is.
the amount of shots needed to kill a tank should be changed. You think its easy to calculate where the weak spots in the tank when its hunting you down knowing your hiding nearby?bullshit.
http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/hitpoints.php
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6861|Bryan/College Station, TX
Blah Blah Blah.. my kit is worse off than yours... Blah Blah Blah my kit is better than your kit ... Blah Blah Blah your kit's too powerful... Blah Blah Blah My kit isn't powerful enough... yadadada random crap on and on.

Enough with the fuckin dick measuring.

Each class has their weaknesses. Each class has their strengths.

If a tank had fuckin support infantry around it like it SHOULD then a spec ops shouldn't be able to sneak up to it and blow it to hell. Do you often see a tank with support infantry? I sure as hell don't. If it did then the AT class would be the best class to take out the tank. In my opinion it still is. Spec ops have to get lucky and not be seen. That is getting harder to do with experienced tank drivers. As a tank driver I'm more afraid of random missles and bombs being dropped or fired from bombers, jets or heli and yes AT kits. Going by a position that AT person could be anywhere. Firing on me at least 2 times before I find them and only if I am lucky enough to figure out where that missle came from and where they are hiding.

BTW I play AT class more than any other class and I have little issue with taking out armor. When I die it's because I was dumb and let myself be seen or because infantry gun me down. Should the AT class be able to take out infantry as well as vehicles? No. It's not a kit that should do such a thing. Assault should be the best at doing this. But I feel that the Assault class has taken a back seat to more effective infantry killers. Which is quite a shame really.

So there is my blah blah blah random crap that I shall add.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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