BF2S Forums What should the minimum wage be?

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Haven't you heard? education, training, clean criminal record, drug free etc..... are the tell tale traits that employers find marketable. I am ont a CEO and guess what, I make a pretty good living.

Not everyone had the opportunity in life like you did.

Oh yeah I had huge opportunities. I graduated HS and joined the military. From there I built a career. I was not in jail, on drugs, or in trouble. I worked and I climbed.

So just how many people do think we are talking about that just didn't have the opportunity to finish HS and get a fuckin job, that was not in trouble of some kind or lazy? What percentage do you really think are in situations that are not self induced in one form or another?

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Oh yeah I had huge opportunities. I graduated HS and joined the military. From there I built a career. I was not in jail, on drugs, or in trouble. I worked and I climbed.

So just how many people do think we are talking about that just didn't have the opportunity to finish HS and get a fuckin job, that was not in trouble of some kind or lazy? What percentage do you really think are in situations that are not self induced in one form or another?

Trailer trash Whites, poor Blacks and Latinos living in the ghetto with a shitty ass school getting them nowhere with a troubled family.

There are a million variables, but I applaud you for making it high in life.

Absolutely none of those things defines an individual, you are describing the end results of shitty decison making, and a lack of personal responsibilty. They are poor because of their choice NOT because of their race, this must be true since you described poor people of most of the US races.

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Absolutely none of those things defines an individual, you are describing the end results of shitty decison making, and a lack of personal responsibilty. They are poor because of their choice NOT because of their race, this must be true since you described poor people of most of the US races.

You have to remember the fact that shitty parents will probably create shitty kids. The cycle is probably endless. I hate to sound racist but, I guess it's something in their culture not to change much at all, since MTV glorifies being a rapper and a gangsta.

That excuse is as old as the hills and irrelevent then as it is now.

Evderyone knows what right and wrong is, even murderers, ya know how I know? Because they go to great lengths NOT to get caught after the fact. Personal responsibility is just that PERSONAL, you are not allowed to blame mommy and daddy for you being a dumb fuck in your life.

you are also responsible for who you glorify, NOT MTV.

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

You have to remember the fact that shitty parents will probably create shitty kids. The cycle is probably endless. I hate to sound racist but, I guess it's something in their culture not to change much at all, since MTV glorifies being a rapper and a gangsta.

That excuse is as old as the hills and irrelevent then as it is now.

Evderyone knows what right and wrong is, even murderers, ya know how I know? Because they go to great lengths NOT to get caught after the fact. Personal responsibility is just that PERSONAL, you are not allowed to blame mommy and daddy for you being a dumb fuck in your life.

you are also responsible for who you glorify, NOT MTV.

A person's enviroment strongly influences who they might become.

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure if lowing is against that, nor would many self-professed Objectivists seem to be.

That is ridiculous Turquoise, and I hate that you think I would endorse situations like that, in those days it was slavery and indentured servitude that drove corporations. People had no choice, no schooling, NO way out, no govt. programs in place to help. Today that is not the case. TODAY, if you are not educated or marketable that is ALL on you and NOT on the govt. or the taxpayer. Laws exist now to protect the worker from conditions that existed back then.

Give it time.  If we pass a flat income tax, say hello to the Gilded Age again.

Last edited by FloppY_ (2009-07-28 19:19:42)

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

yeah yeah yeah, are you going to disagree with my post or not?

When compared to the past, things are definitely more egalitarian.  I would agree with you on that.

My argument is that it is not entirely up to personal responsibility how far you get in the working world.  Some of it is who you know and how much you have in capital already.

Harmor wrote:

FloppY_ wrote:

Denmark @ ~ $19

I bet they have high unemployment for the young and untrained.

Last edited by FloppY_ (2009-07-29 03:58:56)

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

When compared to the past, things are definitely more egalitarian.  I would agree with you on that.

My argument is that it is not entirely up to personal responsibility how far you get in the working world.  Some of it is who you know and how much you have in capital already.

I gotta disagree, there is not one single factor with greater influence on your life than YOUR decisions and your attitude, and your actions.

I agree with that, but again, it's not 100% of success.

Last edited by lowing (2009-07-30 11:22:39)

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I agree with that, but again, it's not 100% of success.

Without positive decisions, attitude and actions failure IS t,he only option, and in the vast majority of the people we are talking about, they have opportunity and choose not to pursue them. They had choices, and made the wrong ones.

There are factors that are out of people's control.

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

There are factors that are out of people's control.

Not for the vast majority of people we are talking about, and you know it.

I agree with the fact that a lot has to do with personal will and sacrifice. For those who sacrifice nothing, gains nothing.

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

I agree with the fact that a lot has to do with personal will and sacrifice. For those who sacrifice nothing, gains nothing.

then what pray tell, are you arguing with me about?

Just saying there are a lot of things out of people's control, like mass layoffs because of stupid CEOs etc.

Last edited by Pug (2009-07-31 06:39:12)