He's a good bowler, but stop overrating him already. Strauss should've won man of the match anyway for that 160.justice wrote:
Wow, Flintoff.
Just wow.
We're gonna miss him
8 down now
Not exactly. Flintoff is superb. I don't know why he doesn't get more wickets (maybe because he can't bowl long spells too often, maybe because he beats the bat and doesn't get edges too often i.e. he bowls half a metre shorter than he should).
Well played England. Johnson put up a bit of a fight but once Clarke left you felt it was all over. If he had continued where he had left off, with Johnson in decent nick, then we would have been up, but didn't happen unfortuanately.
We lost this on Day 2 when our batsmen failed to show discipline and control.
Well played England. Johnson put up a bit of a fight but once Clarke left you felt it was all over. If he had continued where he had left off, with Johnson in decent nick, then we would have been up, but didn't happen unfortuanately.
We lost this on Day 2 when our batsmen failed to show discipline and control.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
gg england i expect a 3-1 loss now
He's a Bowler that can bat. He has never said he's an all rounder and I know myself bowling isnt just about taking wickets. I'll open the bowling get no wickets but maybe gor for 20 runs off 10 overs. As soon as Im off the batsman will start swinging as they have too and get out.Mekstizzle wrote:
He's a good bowler, but stop overrating him already. Strauss should've won man of the match anyway for that 160.justice wrote:
Wow, Flintoff.
Just wow.
We're gonna miss him
8 down now
He dosent get the wickets he deserves, he dosent need to dig it in short but he uses it asa bluff for eg.
Ping one in short
Put 2 fielders out on the leg boundary to protect a hook shot
Bowl a yorker.
Simple yet so effective.
I dunno who did win MOM but I agree Mek, Strauss should have, not just for that but he out thought Ponting aswell. Ive rated Ricky that much its easy to say 'wtf you on about he captained the best side crickets ever seen for 10+ years'. Thats my point. Stick him as England skipper back then and see what he comes up with.
Flintoff is the best cricketer we have had since Botham, maybe better who knows. That isnt overrating him, and not just my thoughts.
You keep saying about 'overrating' him yet he is the player the opposistion fear the most. He gives the biggest boost when declared unfit. Maybe you keep underrating him? 6 days ago he looked like his fitness was going to desert him when he needed it, 6 days later he takes another 5 for.
He is also one of our best slip fielders aswell.
I am not sure how anyone can say Flintoff is over rated. Have you seen what he has done for England over the last 10 years? He has been the country's premier pace bowler, as well as being quite handy with the bat. OK he does not score as many runs as he used to. Still, he has been one of the WORLDS best bowlers - anyone with cricket knowledge would know this.
He wicket tally could be improved for sure, by his own admission, he only started to bowl a few yards fuller lenght around 3-4 years ago, and there is where he takes his wickets. He is agressive, accurate, and relentless. He will bowl over after over, on a flat wicket, and still take wickets. I dont see any Aussie bowlers capable of this right now, and certainly no English bowler (currently) is able to do this. Anderson will swing the ball (if conitions are right) Stuart Broad bangs everything short (so annoying), leaving spin and or new bowlers untested at the highest levels.
The nearest bowler we have to him how is Harminson....but he is erratic - that is the difference between world class, and "good". That being said his recent form deserves an England recall - and I can see him playing the next test.
Hate or love him Freddy has been "THE" Englanf player and will go down as one of the modern greats of English Cricket. You only have to listen to the likes of Shane Warne, Ponting, Ian Botham etc to hear what they think of him - and highly they rate him. And those guys know a thing or two about cricket.....
He wicket tally could be improved for sure, by his own admission, he only started to bowl a few yards fuller lenght around 3-4 years ago, and there is where he takes his wickets. He is agressive, accurate, and relentless. He will bowl over after over, on a flat wicket, and still take wickets. I dont see any Aussie bowlers capable of this right now, and certainly no English bowler (currently) is able to do this. Anderson will swing the ball (if conitions are right) Stuart Broad bangs everything short (so annoying), leaving spin and or new bowlers untested at the highest levels.
The nearest bowler we have to him how is Harminson....but he is erratic - that is the difference between world class, and "good". That being said his recent form deserves an England recall - and I can see him playing the next test.
Hate or love him Freddy has been "THE" Englanf player and will go down as one of the modern greats of English Cricket. You only have to listen to the likes of Shane Warne, Ponting, Ian Botham etc to hear what they think of him - and highly they rate him. And those guys know a thing or two about cricket.....
Last edited by {UK-US}Scotty (2009-07-20 07:51:02)
Yep, that sums him up pretty well.{UK-US}Scotty wrote:
He has been the country's premier pace bowler, as well as being quite handy with the bat. OK he does not score as many runs as he used to. Still, he has been one of the WORLDS best bowlers
Not over rated IMO, maybe his attitude off the pitch can be questioned at times, but that's his only flaw.
With the exit of Flintoff from the team, I'd like to see Ryan Sidebottom as a permanent fixture in the team, someone who I think is vastly UNDERrated, can't believe he's not even been in the 2 squads so far, since he got in the team he had been the bowler that had been keeping our attack together, unfair that he stopped being picked just before the ashes.
He is the perfect replacement for Hoggard.
Last edited by justice (2009-07-20 07:58:11)
I know fucking karate
I like the way Sidebottom plays too - but I could see with Freddie being back, why England needing the batting of Broad and Prior. That coupled too with Andy Flower making a statement by dropping players out of their comfort zone - Ian Bell, being dropped for Bopara etc.
If Freddy is unfit to play or even Peterson looking suspect with injury, it will be an interesting line up. Harmy back in if Freddy is out, and then a batsman to come in 6 or 7 - but who? Onions did OK - but I would have Harminson in for his agressive style. To quote Shane Warne "they would rather face Anderson or Onions - Harminson is just nasty"
So that leaves a hole in the batting - Shah to come in? Take out Peterson and Flintoff, possibly take off 80-100 runs per innings....that is a lot of runs to find from the "also rans"....espicially at Edgbaston. Sadly for England Depth is the key......oh lets not forget Brett Lee is looking to come back and rest assured he will bowl a lot better than the aussies in the last test.
If Freddy is unfit to play or even Peterson looking suspect with injury, it will be an interesting line up. Harmy back in if Freddy is out, and then a batsman to come in 6 or 7 - but who? Onions did OK - but I would have Harminson in for his agressive style. To quote Shane Warne "they would rather face Anderson or Onions - Harminson is just nasty"
So that leaves a hole in the batting - Shah to come in? Take out Peterson and Flintoff, possibly take off 80-100 runs per innings....that is a lot of runs to find from the "also rans"....espicially at Edgbaston. Sadly for England Depth is the key......oh lets not forget Brett Lee is looking to come back and rest assured he will bowl a lot better than the aussies in the last test.
Drop Boparah for Shah or Bell.
I think KP is over rated, he's so hit and miss, when he gets it right its amazing but thats rare.
If Fred is fucked bring in Harmy.
Other than that keep it the same as its a winning side.
I think KP is over rated, he's so hit and miss, when he gets it right its amazing but thats rare.
If Fred is fucked bring in Harmy.
Other than that keep it the same as its a winning side.
What about the Aussie team. I'm loath to drop Johnson, but he needs to improve and fast.
Hughes deserves another chance, three innings so far. Hussey might just be coming back to form... now that he isn't facing Steyn and Ntini.
Hughes deserves another chance, three innings so far. Hussey might just be coming back to form... now that he isn't facing Steyn and Ntini.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Who you got to bring in instead?Spark wrote:
What about the Aussie team. I'm loath to drop Johnson, but he needs to improve and fast.
Hughes deserves another chance, three innings so far. Hussey might just be coming back to form... now that he isn't facing Steyn and Ntini.
One thing that perturbs me though is why certain sections of the English public and media are still going on at Ponting over telling Hughes to stand his ground, claiming that shows he's trying to cheat. Did they not listen to him after the match, and are they wearing Australia-are-always-dickheads glasses? Seriously, not helpful. Didn't paticularly enjoy the stick given to Nathan Hauritz over his claimed catch either.
Lee, Clark, Watson, (all recovering from injury) McDonald. For some unknown reason the selectors decided not to bring a spare separate batsman...1927 wrote:
Who you got to bring in instead?Spark wrote:
What about the Aussie team. I'm loath to drop Johnson, but he needs to improve and fast.
Hughes deserves another chance, three innings so far. Hussey might just be coming back to form... now that he isn't facing Steyn and Ntini.
Last edited by Spark (2009-07-21 01:36:11)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Not sure what your reffering to in the first part about Hughes standing ground etc.Spark wrote:
One thing that perturbs me though is why certain sections of the English public and media are still going on at Ponting over telling Hughes to stand his ground, claiming that shows he's trying to cheat. Did they not listen to him after the match, and are they wearing Australia-are-always-dickheads glasses? Seriously, not helpful. Didn't paticularly enjoy the stick given to Nathan Hauritz over his claimed catch either.Lee, Clark, Watson, (all recovering from injury) McDonald. For some unknown reason the selectors decided not to bring a spare separate batsman...1927 wrote:
Who you got to bring in instead?Spark wrote:
What about the Aussie team. I'm loath to drop Johnson, but he needs to improve and fast.
Hughes deserves another chance, three innings so far. Hussey might just be coming back to form... now that he isn't facing Steyn and Ntini.
Often in Ashes gone by on these soils you have just snapped up an Aussie already based here. As eg, Kasperwickz when Glenn Mcrgrath stood on the ball before. I think, thats how it happened, maybe he was in the squad already. Stuart Law would be good enough if he qualifies I reckon.
Lee is probably next in line. He's the only person on either side who I've seen managed to reverse swing the ball this summer (and we really need someone who can exploit the conditions as well as Hilfenhaus who to me has been the revelation of the series thus far - everyone else who's done well, well, we already knew they could play)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
KP - He's out for the rest of the ashes, not the biggest loss IMO but a blow all the same. When was his last big knock against quality? South Africa?
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/22072009/ … ashes.html
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/22072009/ … ashes.html
and with Flintoff on his last legs (see what I did there?) a 3-1 victory for the Aussies is looking good!
Doesn't look good for England. They needed Australia to play abysmally, then still get help from the umpires giving half our batsmen out illegally and then still came close to losing letting Australia get the 15th highest fourth innings score ever. We all know Australia should be 2-0 up in the series, only England got lucky (numerous times).
Luck as well as a lack of discipline in the first innings. I guarantee you if at least two of the five batsmen who played pullshots to get out in the first innings had A. not or B. done it properly, we wouldn't be talking 0-1 down.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I think Cook can count himself extremely lucky to get to 95 on day 1, Strauss even luckier to reach 160 (something), we can also count ourselves very lucky that Ponting dropped a sitter and missed a run out, while we took catches and knocked bails off.
I do remember one bad decision against Ponting. Who knows what would of happened. Fear not, it will even itself out over the course of the series.
I do remember one bad decision against Ponting. Who knows what would of happened. Fear not, it will even itself out over the course of the series.
Hmm... I thought he was plumb there tbh so I'm not too fussed about it.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Blimey and they call us whinging pommie's! There was no luck in the fact the Aussies could not bowl out our 10 and 11 batsmen in the first test - that was down to poor bowling and and great resistance from the English batsmen.
Bell is coming in and needs to prove his worth - last chance saloon I feel. He is average in Test Cricket is around 40 - but versus the Aussies - it's 20! That being said, no Warne or McGrath to worry about. Pieterson being out is a blow, but he was not highly significant in winning the second test.
Bell is coming in and needs to prove his worth - last chance saloon I feel. He is average in Test Cricket is around 40 - but versus the Aussies - it's 20! That being said, no Warne or McGrath to worry about. Pieterson being out is a blow, but he was not highly significant in winning the second test.
Huh?{UK-US}Scotty wrote:
Blimey and they call us whinging pommie's! There was no luck in the fact the Aussies could not bowl out our 10 and 11 batsmen in the first test - that was down to poor bowling and and great resistance from the English batsmen.
Bell is coming in and needs to prove his worth - last chance saloon I feel. He is average in Test Cricket is around 40 - but versus the Aussies - it's 20! That being said, no Warne or McGrath to worry about. Pieterson being out is a blow, but he was not highly significant in winning the second test.
I was actually more surprised that we got 7 wickets on the last day. Did you see that pitch? It took three days to get 6 batsmen out!
I would say the only batsmen who put up "resistance" were Collingwood (but he like too many others threw his wicket away at the end), Anderson and Panesar.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Rain has delayed the start of play at Edgebaston.
Got a draw written all over it, looking at the forecast.
I know fucking karate
carry on all summer if it has to eh?justice wrote:
Got a draw written all over it, looking at the forecast.
That would be fail.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman