BF2S Forums IED attacks up 1,000% in Afghanistan

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

But not from halfway across the globe in a matter of hours. And nukes.

The point is lack of 5,000 MFAPs is costing lives, now, thousands of them, whereas if the USAF were currently down one B2 it wouldn't even register.

We are down one B2, and it DOES register...when you look at what we are required to be able to do under the law.

And again, you don't trade a B2 for MRAPs. The chronology doesn't work out. You don't even trade an F22 for some MRAPs, as the money has already been paid to Lockheed Martin.

You could trade some F35s in the future for MRAPs today...thereby increasing the unit cost of the F35, however.

Dilbert_X wrote:

It was thoroughly predictable the grunts needed mine/IED/RPG resistant vehicles to operate in the ME, same as its predictable the USAF may need B2s and F22s if the US ever goes to war with Russia or China.

Not so predictable as you would think. It's always easy to "predict" things after the fact, when you know what happened. Much more difficult to predict them without the benefit of hindsight.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The certainty is the military of many countries does not have the equipment needed for the operations they have been engaged in over the past 50 years and won't for the next 50 years.

Now here is something I do NOT disagree with. Certainly the latter, less so for the former.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

We are down one B2, and it DOES register...when you look at what we are required to be able to do under the law.

But the lack of that B2 has not led to thousands of dead servicemen.
Maybe it would have if there had been a war with China, then again we'd all be vapour so wouldn't matter.

The point being that one more or less B2 has fuckall to do with the Army/USMC not buying enough MRAPs.

Dilbert_X wrote:

And again, you don't trade a B2 for MRAPs. The chronology doesn't work out. You don't even trade an F22 for some MRAPs, as the money has already been paid to Lockheed Martin.

You could trade some F35s in the future for MRAPs today...thereby increasing the unit cost of the F35, however.

The question really is about spending priorities, not about trading out of the situation we are in now.
It needed to be thought about some time ago.

The spending priorities have been adjusted. Why do you think all those AF programs were cut/eliminated? The spending priorities that can be affected are those I pointed out...FUTURE dollars. The dollars being spent right now were prioritized and allocated long ago...well before the MRAP issue was brought to light.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its usually the case - the worst example probably being the British MOD - that the Navy and Air Force get fancy gear and the Army don't get the basics -> avoidable casualties in typical engagements.

It's normally quite cyclical, tbh.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Not so predictable as you would think. It's always easy to "predict" things after the fact, when you know what happened. Much more difficult to predict them without the benefit of hindsight.

The Iraq invasion was planned a good while ahead, well before 9/11.

No, it wasn't.

Dilbert_X wrote:

6 years later they are just starting to develop the right gear?

If you remember (since you like to point it out), there were assumptions made by the administration during the planning phase that basically said "don't worry about an insurgency". MRAP didn't really become as big of an issue until the shaped-charge IEDs came into the fight. Provided by our Iranian friends. At that point, even "up-armored" vehicles were vulnerable, and a new solution had to be brought in.

It's called adjusting. You don't predict that kind of shit. If YOU can, then you need to run your country's MoD.

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Not so predictable as you would think. It's always easy to "predict" things after the fact, when you know what happened. Much more difficult to predict them without the benefit of hindsight.

The Iraq invasion was planned a good while ahead, well before 9/11.

No, it wasn't.

Are you telling me there was no plan in place to invade Iraq before 9/11? That's just nonsense.

There is no way there would not have been plans in place for invading Iraq. I'd be prepared to bet the Pentagon have plans in place for invading just about anywhere as contingencies. For them not to have plans in place for invading somewhere like Iraq at that point in time would be absurd.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The point being that one more or less B2 has fuckall to do with the Army/USMC not buying enough MRAPs.

As I said already, its about spending priorities. Pretty sure big ticket items like B2s or thousand strong fleets of vehicles do get determined by govt who do worry about budgets.

I already explained this. Go back and read.

Dilbert_X wrote:

MRAP didn't really become as big of an issue until the shaped-charge IEDs came into the fight.

I thought Humvees were being wiped out by good old HE and RPGs often enough.
Also thought after Somalia, and having to beg APCs from the Pakistanis, vulnerability of non-armoured vehicles in urban environments would hae been realised, I thought it was.

Again, I already explained this. See "up-armored humvees" from my previous post. They started using IEDs and RPGs. We up-armored our humvees (should've been done from the beginning, imo). They started using anti-armor IEDs from their Shia friends to the east to counter the up-armored humvees. We had to come up with something else (MRAP).

Bertster7 wrote:

Are you telling me there was no plan in place to invade Iraq before 9/11? That's just nonsense.

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

Bertster7 wrote:

There is no way there would not have been plans in place for invading Iraq. I'd be prepared to bet the Pentagon have plans in place for invading just about anywhere as contingencies. For them not to have plans in place for invading somewhere like Iraq at that point in time would be absurd.

You'd lose that bet. The vast majority of the plans that exist are defensive in nature. The Iraq plan was a modification of an existing defensive plan that was built after the first Gulf War.

This may be a nuance thing. When I say "plan", I'm referring to a specific operational plan, not an idea in someone's head.