lol!Kontrolfreq wrote:
2nd'd And don't even get me started on those fricken flagpoles!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Standing there all smug loooking, and obscuring my view dagnammit!!! lol.I agree with you. Everyone gets pissed at one thing or another if EA got rid of everything that annoyed people the game would be we just sit around a flag pole with our thumb up our asses
or does the flagpole piss anyone off.... anyone
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- When, OH When are E.A. Going to get rid of the DAMN claymores?
A wall of claymores? Hell yeah!Cbass wrote:
Clays don't need to be destroyable, engineer can disarm them if your good. snipers can only place 2 as it is. if one way is blocked then find another way around. it's not like your going to run into a wall of claymores and can't go anywhere. god forbid u might die once, big frickin deal.
So currently the situation is like this:
Your e.g. playing Sharqi. You re trying to get the TV station. You try climbing up the ladder. You see there s a claymore --> Not possible to defuse it even with engi kit. This way is completely blocked. So you will try to go up the stairs and take the other way. But there will be a claymore just behind the door. You cant defuse it because as soon as you see it it will blow up. -----> this way is blocked too ----> You can NOT get this flag. One sniper can defend it all alone without even being in the area.
Same applies for many other flags and corners. Currently if you want to cap a flag in a city map there will be ~1 claymore.
So what have we got:
Arguments for making claymores destructible and turning FF on: A whole lot!
Arguments against it: ...uhm....none? Well snipers would get some tks because of claymores but they re not meant to be placed in pupulated areas anyways.
They tried to fix claymores but they obviously messed it up and that s why they need to be fixed again. If people didnt complain we would still have 1.0 (dont tell me you liked 1.0 with "toobing", c4-throw-detonate in mid-air, dolphin diving, weak sniper rifles, G36E owning everything....yes it has been made weaker, G3 being total crap, "blackhawkwhoring" on mashtur etc. etc.).
Last edited by ArMaG3dD0n (2006-04-04 06:38:35)
well said. I must admit i got tired repeating the same thing, day after day, but it seems its not just me thats seeing the problem now. *\o/*ArMaG3dD0n wrote:
A wall of claymores? Hell yeah!Cbass wrote:
Clays don't need to be destroyable, engineer can disarm them if your good. snipers can only place 2 as it is. if one way is blocked then find another way around. it's not like your going to run into a wall of claymores and can't go anywhere. god forbid u might die once, big frickin deal.
So currently the situation is like this:
Your e.g. playing Sharqi. You re trying to get the TV station. You try climbing up the ladder. You see there s a claymore --> Not possible to defuse it even with engi kit. This way is completely blocked. So you will try to go up the stairs and take the other way. But there will be a claymore just behind the door. You cant defuse it because as soon as you see it it will blow up. -----> this way is blocked too ----> You can NOT get this flag. One sniper can defend it all alone without even being in the area.
Same applies for many other flags and corners. Currently if you want to cap a flag in a city map there will be ~1 claymore.
So what have we got:
Arguments for making claymores destructible and turning FF on: A whole lot!
Arguments against it: ...uhm....none? Well snipers would get some tks because of claymores but they re not meant to be placed in pupulated areas anyways.
They tried to fix claymores but they obviously messed it up and that s why they need to be fixed again. If people didnt complain we would still have 1.0 (dont tell me you liked 1.0 with "toobing", c4-throw-detonate in mid-air, dolphin diving, weak sniper rifles, G36E owning everything....yes it has been made weaker, G3 being total crap, "blackhawkwhoring" on mashtur etc. etc.).
Last edited by -fe.lep- (2006-04-07 20:10:06)
I have a perfect screen shot of why claymores ABSOLUTELY NEED a fix. I don't know how to post screen shots though.
Couldnt bother reading the whole thread and dont know if someone already suggested this but i have 2 words for you: GRAPPLING HOOK-fe.lep- wrote:
For example: Warlord
Palace 2nd and 3rd floor on Warlord have become, just about, uncapable bases. If you corner a team with just those flags left with just 3 doorways that lead in or out you have half a dozen snipers and half a dozen support making themselves 100's of undeserved points. The same goes for the T.V. station which is worse, there are only 2 ways in or out. This is obviously effecting the stats of all the players involved and is tantamount to stats padding. You can no longer play to win the game as it involves dying dozens of times on mines that cannot be removed and are not being used in the manor for which they were intended.
One sniper can not effectively defend the TV station. He only has 2, and if you're in a squad, you can easily bum rush him since cq is not his strong point, and get the flag. There are ways to work around these things. Also I hate that flag pole, stops my tank dead in its tracks. Need to make the flag pole out of rubber so it bends around. j/k
The sniper defending the TV station will often be the commander (its his main base) so he will have supplies and can replace claymores if they killed someone. The only way to get this flag without having to sacrifice yourself is having a medic behind you to revive you........but how often does that happen on a public server?
I think it boils down to this:
We're tired of seeing snipers drop claymores everywhere and not having any way to defuse them. You can use the "have a medic revive you" trick all you want, but what about at the top of ladders? You hit a claymore climbing a ladder, you are killed, not critically wounded. Back when they were able to be blown up by hand grenades, the sniper would obviously hear the grenades blowing up his claymore, so to say that the sniper would have no defense is a bit of a stretch, unless they're deaf or dumb. Even so, the pistol is a pretty good weapon, obviously not as good as a full auto rifle would be, but that's the price you pay for having the ability to do 95% damage with well placed shot.
I'm all for having claymores used to defend flags, it's a good strategy. It's just no fun to show up to a flag, have 3 claymores placed all around it, and having to essentially have somebody die to defuse them. C4 can be stopped by killing the person who placed it, AT mines get wrenched away, claymores stick around forever until somebody sets them off.
And lastly, somebody in the first page or so said that instead of bitching, we could adapt and find ways to counter it, to which I ask:
Why were you bitching then, when we DID have ways of countering it, and pushed EA into "fixing" it? Why didn't you just counter us getting around your claymores?
also helicopters need their health back.
We're tired of seeing snipers drop claymores everywhere and not having any way to defuse them. You can use the "have a medic revive you" trick all you want, but what about at the top of ladders? You hit a claymore climbing a ladder, you are killed, not critically wounded. Back when they were able to be blown up by hand grenades, the sniper would obviously hear the grenades blowing up his claymore, so to say that the sniper would have no defense is a bit of a stretch, unless they're deaf or dumb. Even so, the pistol is a pretty good weapon, obviously not as good as a full auto rifle would be, but that's the price you pay for having the ability to do 95% damage with well placed shot.
I'm all for having claymores used to defend flags, it's a good strategy. It's just no fun to show up to a flag, have 3 claymores placed all around it, and having to essentially have somebody die to defuse them. C4 can be stopped by killing the person who placed it, AT mines get wrenched away, claymores stick around forever until somebody sets them off.
And lastly, somebody in the first page or so said that instead of bitching, we could adapt and find ways to counter it, to which I ask:
Why were you bitching then, when we DID have ways of countering it, and pushed EA into "fixing" it? Why didn't you just counter us getting around your claymores?
also helicopters need their health back.
Last edited by AnGR5e (2006-04-08 09:17:03)
When I said there were 2 ways in and out of the T.V station flag did you not think to yourself, hmmm does he mean the door and the window? If he means the window, mabey he uses a hook to get there and not the "suicide ladder"? You lazy, staggering stupid, egotistical, unthinking fuckwit. When u got my stats on SF then come here and give me advice, until then, shut the fuck up. Read the rest of the thread and realise how stupid you really sound..........Quicke wrote:
Couldnt bother reading the whole thread and dont know if someone already suggested this but i have 2 words for you: GRAPPLING HOOK-fe.lep- wrote:
For example: Warlord
Palace 2nd and 3rd floor on Warlord have become, just about, uncapable bases. If you corner a team with just those flags left with just 3 doorways that lead in or out you have half a dozen snipers and half a dozen support making themselves 100's of undeserved points. The same goes for the T.V. station which is worse, there are only 2 ways in or out. This is obviously effecting the stats of all the players involved and is tantamount to stats padding. You can no longer play to win the game as it involves dying dozens of times on mines that cannot be removed and are not being used in the manor for which they were intended.
Last edited by -fe.lep- (2006-04-08 19:45:35)
What does a W/L ratio have to do with anything? claymores are not diffrent in sf jackass. so u played SF more then me, big deal there all the same. all i see is that u got killed by a few claymores and now your a whiney bitch. True i haven't played as much but ive never once been killed by a claymore on a SF map, i don't know what the hell your talking about.-fe.lep- wrote:
First of all I note that you replied to the top post on this page and not the 4th one down. I wonder why?Cbass wrote:
Hey man u know what? i play the same game as u and everybody else. We all deal with the same claymores as u do. but we don't bitch about them. Just take the death and stfu. claymores are fine, i can play any map i want, if a claymore kills me oh well, ill just go a diffrent way next time. y don't u learn how to adapt and deal with them rather then running around a map like an idiot. It's simple to check corners.
Second I would point out your stats for special forces on the maps in question:
MAP TIME WINS LOSSES RATIO HIGHEST SCORE
Night Flight 01:06:15 3 4 0.75 39
Warlord 01:45:57 3 3 1.00 65
Which means out of the 13 times you played these maps you have lost more than you won. Gee a whole 13 times........
Night Flight 12:24:38 40 18 2.22 127
Warlord 31:14:33 80 50 1.60 148
Thats my stats, ops, do you see a bit of a difference there?
1. being that I have played the map a whole hell of a lot more than you, giving me the experience to know what im talking about.
2. I win a lot more than I loose.
So who's the one running around the map like an idiot? ROFL
It's a pity that we have to put up with the "im leet as F**K I can defeat anything. You suck because..." kinda of posts but I guess when your educationally sub-normal A long, clear and well thought out post is just too much reading. The reasons for the argument are put by me clearly on this page on the fourth post from the top, Smeghead pasted it and commented on the quality. Gee I wonder will your post get anyone thinking anything other than, "what a W*nk*r!" ?
Rofl, you have a nice day now, ya hear? :p
I dunno, mabey this answers your question? I doubt it tho.....................................-fe.lep- wrote:
-fe.lep- wrote:Cbass wrote:
What does a W/L ratio have to do with anything? claymores are not diffrent in sf jackass. so u played SF more then me, big deal there all the same. all i see is that u got killed by a few claymores and now your a whiney bitch. True i haven't played as much but ive never once been killed by a claymore on a SF map, i don't know what the hell your talking about.First of all, if you read my posts on page 4 which I doubt you have, you will see that the examples that I give are mostly specific to special forces and the adverse impact the controls of the weapons are having there. I would have to point out that your special forces play time seems to be limited and I would have to question if you have even been on the maps we are discussing since the advent of 1.22. If this is the case then for you to suggest that "claymores are not the scourge of battlefield" would be correct and honest. When u play most maps on battlefield 2 they are nothing more than an inconvenience, unless used in vast numbers, after all, how annoying is a claymore when you are in an f-16? This does not however change the fact that in a number of situations ,for example the start of Karkand, The television station on Sharqi peninsula etc. etc. they effect gameplay to a much higher degree than the PKM, C4 or Nade Launchers ever did. The previous weapons required that the player retain some control in aiming or detonation the claymore does not, if you killed the player controlling the other weapons they were then taken out of the equation. With the claymore retaining the ability the kill even after the "planter" is dead there is an obvious inbalance. This is a situation that clearly requires rectification and action from E.A. would not be without precedent.chuyskywalker wrote:
Seriously, get over it. I DO NOT find claymores to be quite the scourge of BF2 as you do, and I highly doubt EA/DICE is going to change it now.
1. Sniper is a weak class to start with, take away their claymores and they're just stupid.
A "sniper" rifle that needs two hits to kill -- thanks. A shitty pistol, standard issue grenades, a distinctly "i'm weak, shoot me" outfit, and no body armor. No, I think the snipers could use a little help.To address this point in the second paragragh (The nightflight example) I will use material I have previously pasted and just changed a little , I would also point to your playtime again and me having already addressed this issue on a number of other posts previously which you seem to have not read. I would also point to you calling the people on public servers, who have died trying to revive fellow team members in the following examples as idiots, Its those "idiots" that visit your site and keep your hits per day what it is. Anyhow :2. Medic reviving DOES work, and it works extremely well.
Apparently the people you've been working with (the medics that get hit by this magical second "waiting for medic" claymore) are idiots. I'm not going to go into tactics here because it's pointless, but suffice it to say it's quite possible, and plainly very simple to execute this method of entry.
Medic reviving DOES NOT WORK on the palace 2nd floor and 3rd floor on public servers. Are you seriously suggesting that public players, not on teamspeak, are capable of attacking in the co-ordinated manner as you describe while the entire opposing team is pinned down on one flag point? There are 3 doorways into the area, all of them when this situation arises will be double claymored, now your suggesting while there are 12 people in that room waiting for the enemy and periodically grenading the hell out of the corridor while spamming with PKM's, you and your frend the medic are going to go running up to the door, your going to detonate the claymore, hes going to revive you while not being killed by the other claymore and the other people in the room are going to watch in total awe at your ownage tactic? I would suggest that you will get your asses blown off and the mines replaced in seconds, even if there was 4 or 6 of players doing the same thing and you did succeed 90% of the time they will get shot and the mines replaced. Your successful assault in this manner would be one of the few I have seen and I have played the map 150 times.
Secondly the nightflight example, every single point on the map holds the same problems on it that the palace does, this means not just one massacre of your team by claymores, but every single point they take will result in this. like I said in a previous post, I have seen 10 and more claymores sitting on points in nightflight making the game unplayable with any level of fairness as it requires team members to be used as minesweepers, Im not saying the points "cant" be taken but to do so would be a Pyrrhic victory.
We are here to play the game to win are we not? Is this form of mine laying, without any form of diffusal other than ineffective suicide, not "adversely effecting game play" enough to be considered for a change? You answer my question further down yourself......No its not, its not even close, please explain to me how laying mines under enemy tanks makes flag capture an impossibility, extends the map further than it should have been played by up to ten minutes, gives the players on the loosing team supply and sniperkills that are undeserved and generally pisses an entire team off usually resulting in a massive flame war?3. Claymores ARE tools of war!
Complaining that people are using claymores as an offensive measure is like crying that mines shouldn't be placed under enemy tanks.AGAIN as I already stated, I dont run into the areas that are now "virtually offlimits" to get myself killed, while you were noobing around with your 5 claymores for the odd kill, I would have been off getting a hell of a lot more points elsewhere. Try looking for explosive golds on players stats. ops, I guess I have that one too. There were always people using claymores. After the 1.22 patch, the migration of people to the sniper class for easy kills just means theres a whole lot more of them. That brings me to the reasons for my original post.As a side note: were you having, like, fits of rage during during 1.12 when I was sitting at the sharqi TV station with FIVE claymores out? I bet.So finally after all this, you get to the point I have made on 10 + occasions on this thread over the last couple of days. They need to be made diffusable and have teamdamage ON by default. Good job mate. So I guess if you think that, I think that and a whole hell of a lot of people agree, that your opening statement about E.A. and changes to the claymore were, erm....Note #2, I do agree that claymores, if you're smart enough to spot them, should be hand grenade detonate able, I also agree that they should go off for friendlies. Two very, very stupid changes.
Lets just hope E.A. see it the same way.
Ah well, its Friday, beer night, gl and hf wink
o/
and being that you have played the maps in question for less than 3 hours, forgive me if I don't hold your "opinion" in the highest regard.
Last edited by -fe.lep- (2006-04-08 20:08:07)
Any of the numerous people who replied in this thread claiming claymores need no change are *obviously* just trying to preserve the imbalance. Claymores should be destroyable by grenades and other explosives (hell, even shooting them would at least knock them down irl, pretty much screwing them).
People who think that having a medic follow someone who acts as "claymore fodder" is a solution make me laugh. Great solution... the sniper is *guaranteed* a kill for every claymore. Great.
Other than landmines, claymores are the only "passive" weapon in the game. Since it requires *zero* risk or skill, it needs to be countered by more than "just give the sniper a kill, oh and have a medic trailing you".
I find it amusing that almost every post in this thread saying claymores need a balance has been well spoken and reasonable, and every retort claiming claymores are fine is basicaly "omg n00b lolol u jsut suck ur such a n00b claymores r g8".
Flame away.
Grym
People who think that having a medic follow someone who acts as "claymore fodder" is a solution make me laugh. Great solution... the sniper is *guaranteed* a kill for every claymore. Great.
Other than landmines, claymores are the only "passive" weapon in the game. Since it requires *zero* risk or skill, it needs to be countered by more than "just give the sniper a kill, oh and have a medic trailing you".
I find it amusing that almost every post in this thread saying claymores need a balance has been well spoken and reasonable, and every retort claiming claymores are fine is basicaly "omg n00b lolol u jsut suck ur such a n00b claymores r g8".
Flame away.
Grym
EA didn't change the claymores because people were bitching about them being ineffective. They changed ALL the explosives because people were bitching about TEAMKILLS and punishments.AnGR5e wrote:
I think it boils down to this:
And lastly, somebody in the first page or so said that instead of bitching, we could adapt and find ways to counter it, to which I ask:
Why were you bitching then, when we DID have ways of countering it, and pushed EA into "fixing" it? Why didn't you just counter us getting around your claymores?
also helicopters need their health back.
I still say the best solution is to make any explosives NOT kill friendlys, but make ALL explosives destructable with grenades. It really is the most simplistic solution, and it makes more sense than how they have it now.
And no, helicopters do not need any health back.
Last edited by 908741059871059781 (2006-04-09 04:48:48)
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- When, OH When are E.A. Going to get rid of the DAMN claymores?