I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't break into my house you won't get shot in the chest. It's not about vengeance or the worth of human life it's about following the most basic rules of civilized society. the only person discounting life is the one committing the crime.
I find if kinda funny that somebody would risk their life over a tv.FatherTed wrote:
I still find it laughable someone will condone deadly force for the theft of a TV
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
And Lowing, despite what you may think, letting people steal your shit is not a liberal trait. I wouldn't shoot someone breaking into my house, but I'd certainly knock seven shades of shit out of him with a bit of 2 by 4.
And Lowing, despite what you may think, letting people steal your shit is not a liberal trait. I wouldn't shoot someone breaking into my house, but I'd certainly knock seven shades of shit out of him with a bit of 2 by 4.
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
Well, you claimed that laws favour the criminal, but all you're actually moaning about are laws that prescribe measured responses when defending yourself. Disagree with them all you want, but please do check the sensationalist hyperbole at the door. It makes you come off as being somewhat less than bright.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
It's not equal at all. People shouldn't be allowed to break into homes, which they aren't. If they want to run the risk of getting shot or killed, then ok. I just don't get why any court would dare defend a person who broke into a home and got his comeuppance for it.mikkel wrote:
Uh, and if the burglar had shot the resident, the burglar could've been successfully sued as well. That seems just about equal to me.
The occupants of the domicile would not be on "equal footing" in any state in the union, as the occupants would have the right to defend themselves, whereas the burglar has no rights to anything on the property in question. That means that legislation favours the occupant, not the criminal.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
The burglar should have given up said right to sue because he was posing a potential lethal threat by breaking into an occupied home. By the laws of things that just make sense, the offender (or his family) shoudn't be on equal footing with the victim like that, since it was by said offender's actions that both parties were put into a position of conflict in the first place.mikkel wrote:
Uh, and if the burglar had shot the resident, the burglar could've been successfully sued as well. That seems just about equal to me. I believe you were talking about inequality of rights favouring criminals.
Last edited by mikkel (2009-07-05 15:10:17)
I guess. Are people trespassing really going to go to the cops because my roof is sharp?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
Macbeth, you live in jersey dude. John Corzine....hello this is not a 2nd amendment respecting state. If you shoot an intruder, at the very least look forward to spending a night in jail, and then 75% likely to get homicide charges. Purchase a book (a current edition) about NJ gun laws/use of force, they usually tell you all you need to know. Can you ever really trust info given over the internet? You should know these things before the situation ever arrives, from a published source, not anonymous joe in buttfuckistan
Like I said, criminals usually do not break into as house without a weapon, if you feel you are so bad ass you can karate kick a bullet out of mid air, be my guest.FatherTed wrote:
in response to both posts;
yeh, its pretty easy - knock the dickhead out. you know your house, he/she won't. then again you have guns, but in every room in my house i have something i could lay someone out with, it wouldn't be hard. plus i'm decent at karate.
2nd, lighten the fuck up. it's like me calling a mate a wanker, i don't mean it, and i'd never say it with meaning. the pig comment is a non issue, don't try and make it one.
2nd, the difference is, the cop ain't your friend, so no, it ain't like "calling your mate a wanker". and your stupiditiy of calling cops names to their faces is of no issue to me, it probably is to them though. Your call.
Ya see, if you bring a 2x4 to a gun fight, chances are, you will be letting the criminal steal your shit. and yeah, worrying about some pieces of shit life that is trying to harm you is nothing if not a liberal trait.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
And Lowing, despite what you may think, letting people steal your shit is not a liberal trait. I wouldn't shoot someone breaking into my house, but I'd certainly knock seven shades of shit out of him with a bit of 2 by 4.
I am going to make sure that my family and I stay alive in the event of a robbery or intrusion... I will deal with the consequences afterwards.
Love is the answer
It also has the potential to harm someone who is trespassing for good reasons, like cops/fire fighters/medical professionals/neighbours trying to rescue your kids from a house fire type thing.ghettoperson wrote:
I guess. Are people trespassing really going to go to the cops because my roof is sharp?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
but the criminals life is just as important as any member of your family, just ask fatherted.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
I am going to make sure that my family and I stay alive in the event of a robbery or intrusion... I will deal with the consequences afterwards.
It's a good job you're so informed on these matters so the rest of us can see where we're going wrong. So would you say I'm a conservative then?lowing wrote:
Ya see, if you bring a 2x4 to a gun fight, chances are, you will be letting the criminal steal your shit. and yeah, worrying about some pieces of shit life that is trying to harm you is nothing if not a liberal trait.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
And Lowing, despite what you may think, letting people steal your shit is not a liberal trait. I wouldn't shoot someone breaking into my house, but I'd certainly knock seven shades of shit out of him with a bit of 2 by 4.
I got it, I will post a sign on my lawn saying "I shoot intruders". That will keep them away. CAn't get sued then either.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
As far as the OP goes, I concur with previous statements about knowing the local laws. If you want to take our other advice and recomendations, well, good luck.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Not sure how informed one must be NOT to let a criminal rob you, but, whatever ya say.ghettoperson wrote:
It's a good job you're so informed on these matters so the rest of us can see where we're going wrong. So would you say I'm a conservative then?lowing wrote:
Ya see, if you bring a 2x4 to a gun fight, chances are, you will be letting the criminal steal your shit. and yeah, worrying about some pieces of shit life that is trying to harm you is nothing if not a liberal trait.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
And Lowing, despite what you may think, letting people steal your shit is not a liberal trait. I wouldn't shoot someone breaking into my house, but I'd certainly knock seven shades of shit out of him with a bit of 2 by 4.
Here, when force is used it must be reasonable, and not excessive.
If someone breaks into your house with a machette and starts hacking up your family, its time for Mr Shotgun, but if they have no weapons and only want to steal your TV then you'll get in trouble if you shoot them. In that sort of situation, what you can do depends on what they do - if they try to flee upon their being discovered then you can't do shit (you CAN follow them however), but if they attack you then you can defend yourself and subdue them. Detaining someone is basically the same as performing a citizen's arrest anyhow - in both cases you have to wait for the police to collect them.
You're allowed to detain and/or perform a citizen's arrest (this is a legal minefield) on someone if the offensethey're committing has a maximum sentence exceeding three years - stuff like common assault and shoplifting aren't enough, but if someone causes serious harm or commits a sex crime for example, then you can pin them down. You can't bash them when you're detaining them - but if they try to hurt you during the detention process, you're still allowed to use reasonable force to subdue them.
If someone breaks into your house with a machette and starts hacking up your family, its time for Mr Shotgun, but if they have no weapons and only want to steal your TV then you'll get in trouble if you shoot them. In that sort of situation, what you can do depends on what they do - if they try to flee upon their being discovered then you can't do shit (you CAN follow them however), but if they attack you then you can defend yourself and subdue them. Detaining someone is basically the same as performing a citizen's arrest anyhow - in both cases you have to wait for the police to collect them.
You're allowed to detain and/or perform a citizen's arrest (this is a legal minefield) on someone if the offensethey're committing has a maximum sentence exceeding three years - stuff like common assault and shoplifting aren't enough, but if someone causes serious harm or commits a sex crime for example, then you can pin them down. You can't bash them when you're detaining them - but if they try to hurt you during the detention process, you're still allowed to use reasonable force to subdue them.
That "sounds" very reasonable, except for the fact that it forces the defender (already at a disadvantage) to be appropriately prepared and react correctly to the amount of force that the attacker brings.Pubic wrote:
Here, when force is used it must be reasonable, and not excessive.
If someone breaks into your house with a machette and starts hacking up your family, its time for Mr Shotgun, but if they have no weapons and only want to steal your TV then you'll get in trouble if you shoot them. In that sort of situation, what you can do depends on what they do - if they try to flee upon their being discovered then you can't do shit (you CAN follow them however), but if they attack you then you can defend yourself and subdue them. Detaining someone is basically the same as performing a citizen's arrest anyhow - in both cases you have to wait for the police to collect them.
You're allowed to detain and/or perform a citizen's arrest (this is a legal minefield) on someone if the offensethey're committing has a maximum sentence exceeding three years - stuff like common assault and shoplifting aren't enough, but if someone causes serious harm or commits a sex crime for example, then you can pin them down. You can't bash them when you're detaining them - but if they try to hurt you during the detention process, you're still allowed to use reasonable force to subdue them.
Here are the relevant sections of NJ code (from handgunlaw.us) I'll let you google them yourself.
2C:3-1. Justification an affirmative defense; civil remedies unaffected
2C:3-2. Necessity and other justifications in general
2C:3-4 Use of force in self-protection.
2C:3-5. Use of force for the protection of other persons
2C:3-6. Use of force in defense of premises or personal property
It doesn't sound reasonable to me at all. Don't do the crime (aka breaking into homes) if you can't do the time (AKA dying). Pretty simple.
They can, and they will. My neighbors got sued when someone broke into their house while they were on vacation and got bitten by their dog. The neighbors had to pay several thousand dollars to the person who broke into their house!ghettoperson wrote:
I guess. Are people trespassing really going to go to the cops because my roof is sharp?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
Honestly that sort of injustice is what makes some people go off the edgeDeadmonkiefart wrote:
They can, and they will. My neighbors got sued when someone broke into their house while they were on vacation and got bitten by their dog. The neighbors had to pay several thousand dollars to the person who broke into their house!ghettoperson wrote:
I guess. Are people trespassing really going to go to the cops because my roof is sharp?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.
Watch the movie, American History X.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
It's a really broad call, relying on a ton of environmental and situational issues.ATG wrote:
Essentially Mac, you may not use deadly force unless you believe and can prove your life is in danger.
Use it and not prove it go to jail as murderer.
If he had just shot the dude dead right then and there then that would've been the end of it. Instead he injured him, and then fuckin curbstomped the guy. Even I think that's excessive.AussieReaper wrote:
Watch the movie, American History X.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
It's a really broad call, relying on a ton of environmental and situational issues.ATG wrote:
Essentially Mac, you may not use deadly force unless you believe and can prove your life is in danger.
Use it and not prove it go to jail as murderer.
Yes, well we live in the land of "If you get hurt or fat, its always someone else fault."LividBovine wrote:
I got it, I will post a sign on my lawn saying "I shoot intruders". That will keep them away. CAn't get sued then either.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
It's something about them not being made properly aware of the dangers when they enter your property. Like why cigarettes are required to tell you they can kill you.ghettoperson wrote:
What are the rules about having dangerous stuff on your property? My mates house has a separate garage, and kids like to climb on other peoples neighbouring garages. Now I was all for busting out the cement and and broken glass, however my mother informs me that this would get us in trouble if someone hurt themselves; apparently you're not supposed to have dangerous shit lying around? Is that true?
I think every states needs to adopt a "no trespassing law". If you enter someone elses property uninvited the owners are not liable for an injuries incurred on said property. Of course I know it would never be adopted because common sense has no place in our courtrooms.
Ever heard of the castle doctrine, and no duty to retreat?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Yes, well we live in the land of "If you get hurt or fat, its always someone else fault."
I think every states needs to adopt a "no trespassing law". If you enter someone elses property uninvited the owners are not liable for an injuries incurred on said property. Of course I know it would never be adopted because common sense has no place in our courtrooms.
Not all states have that though.mcjagdflieger wrote:
Ever heard of the castle doctrine, and no duty to retreat?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Yes, well we live in the land of "If you get hurt or fat, its always someone else fault."
I think every states needs to adopt a "no trespassing law". If you enter someone elses property uninvited the owners are not liable for an injuries incurred on said property. Of course I know it would never be adopted because common sense has no place in our courtrooms.