Pages: 1 2 3 4 5

 

2009-07-01 16:59:44
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6646|MN

CameronPoe wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lol @ the fascist. 'Our democracy was fine until the majority of the voting public expressed an opinion regarding how best to do things other than my own'.
LoL at the ignorant Irishman.  You really think it was that simple?  Thanks for proving how willing you are to ignore the way things happened.  You think the general public had a clue what they were getting themselves into?  You stated your opinion on them already, you want me to find the post?
He was a Democrat. We all know what Democrats do. Even the fish know what Democrats do. The general public knew what Republicans would do and they got shafted for it in the end and the same will apply here. From extreme to extreme. Right wingers are idiots and so are left wingers. Centre right and centre left, countering and balancing each other are the only way forward. It's rich that you seem to blame the administration for the current mess for which the previous administration must take the lion's share of creating/not preventing. Right wing tunnel vision. Fantastic.

Managing economies and nations is a bit like steering a boat. If you've ever steered one you'll know it's quite easy to oversteer when trying to keep a fixed course in a winding river. Oversteering one way prompts corrective oversteering. People like you are responsible for the cycle of oversteering to 'stay on course', getting wilder with every swing.
I blame Bush and Obama and Clinton and Bush and Carter and Reagan to various degrees and for different reasons.  I mostly blame our people for not realizing what they were giving away in the process of aquiring the illusion of security.  The US is far from it's roots and I think this is a bad thing.  Took me a while to realize it, and I hope others do so soon.  If someone realizes where the foundation of our country is laid, and structure we have deviated from and still wants to move on from here, so be it.  Our education system does not tell us alot of things we should know.  It is extremely biased.

You can call me a facist, tunnel visioned nutjob all you want.  I really don't care.  I just want people to actually look into the basis of what made our country great.  Then make decisions based on that knowledge.  I do realize there are those who want a more socialist type society, I am fine with that.  I just hate the fact that our choice between parties is Socialist and Socialist light now.  Even worse is the fact that most of the people are fooled into thinking the Republicans are really smaller government, when few of them actually are.

If the right was truely right I would agree with your statements about centre right and centre left.  Unfortuately, in my opinion, we are choosing from left and far left.

Turquoise wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

The point was no more spending.  I say we can blame hime for doing the bailouts as much as I blame Bush for his spending and bailout.  It is all wrong.  My idea of small federal government calls for drastic cuts in spending and taxes.
Do you honestly think McCain would've allowed all these banks to fail without some sort of bailout?  He voted for the first bailout just like Obama.

It's doubtful McCain would've reacted much differently from Obama with regard to bailouts.  He probably would've spent less, but only the Ron Pauls of the world truly support nonintervention.

People with any real power always intervene on these things, because the last time a president just sat back (Hoover), it caused the Great Depression.

And yes, government spending can pull an economy out of a recession, but it requires careful planning.

Nevertheless, I do support cutting spending, and I'm against any further bailouts.
Get off the Dem Repub thing would you.  I don't like McCain.  I just like Obama even less.  If Ron Paul is truely smaller government and wishes to hand a lot of power back to the states, then I would back him.  Don't know much about him yet but I am looking into him a bit.

Last edited by LividBovine (2009-07-01 17:04:30)

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-07-01 18:11:39
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6672|North Carolina

LividBovine wrote:

Get off the Dem Repub thing would you.  I don't like McCain.  I just like Obama even less.  If Ron Paul is truely smaller government and wishes to hand a lot of power back to the states, then I would back him.  Don't know much about him yet but I am looking into him a bit.
You missed the point.  Bailouts were one of the only choices available at the time.  I'm not saying I want any further bailouts, but in the beginning, not many alternatives were proposed.
2009-07-01 18:18:36
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6646|MN

Turquoise wrote:

You missed the point.  Bailouts were one of the only choices available at the time.  I'm not saying I want any further bailouts, but in the beginning, not many alternatives were proposed.
I feel we shouldn't have bailed anything out.  Let the pieces fall and keep our fingers out of the pie.  The free market would have recovered at the appropriate rate.  If people suffer financially because of not saving enough, over-speculating, and building so much debt, then oh well.  Maybe they will learn a lesson in being good stewards of their families welfare.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-07-01 19:11:22
13rin
Member
+977|6746

LividBovine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

You missed the point.  Bailouts were one of the only choices available at the time.  I'm not saying I want any further bailouts, but in the beginning, not many alternatives were proposed.
I feel we shouldn't have bailed anything out.  Let the pieces fall and keep our fingers out of the pie.  The free market would have recovered at the appropriate rate.  If people suffer financially because of not saving enough, over-speculating, and building so much debt, then oh well.  Maybe they will learn a lesson in being good stewards of their families welfare.
Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2009-07-01 19:12:34
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5852

DBBrinson1 wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

You missed the point.  Bailouts were one of the only choices available at the time.  I'm not saying I want any further bailouts, but in the beginning, not many alternatives were proposed.
I feel we shouldn't have bailed anything out.  Let the pieces fall and keep our fingers out of the pie.  The free market would have recovered at the appropriate rate.  If people suffer financially because of not saving enough, over-speculating, and building so much debt, then oh well.  Maybe they will learn a lesson in being good stewards of their families welfare.
Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Good to hear. Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
2009-07-01 19:12:56
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6672|North Carolina

DBBrinson1 wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

You missed the point.  Bailouts were one of the only choices available at the time.  I'm not saying I want any further bailouts, but in the beginning, not many alternatives were proposed.
I feel we shouldn't have bailed anything out.  Let the pieces fall and keep our fingers out of the pie.  The free market would have recovered at the appropriate rate.  If people suffer financially because of not saving enough, over-speculating, and building so much debt, then oh well.  Maybe they will learn a lesson in being good stewards of their families welfare.
Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
2009-07-01 19:13:26
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6646|MN

Macbeth wrote:

Good to hear. Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
With Lowings money!   Wait, mine to.

Last edited by LividBovine (2009-07-01 19:14:24)

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-07-01 19:17:32
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5852

LividBovine wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Good to hear. Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
With Lowings money!   Wait, mine to.
The funny thing is, some people actually believe that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
2009-07-01 19:22:20
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6646|MN

Macbeth wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Good to hear. Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
With Lowings money!   Wait, mine to.
The funny thing is, some people actually believe that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
And we have thus reached the core of the argument.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-07-01 21:02:23
13rin
Member
+977|6746

Turquoise wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

I feel we shouldn't have bailed anything out.  Let the pieces fall and keep our fingers out of the pie.  The free market would have recovered at the appropriate rate.  If people suffer financially because of not saving enough, over-speculating, and building so much debt, then oh well.  Maybe they will learn a lesson in being good stewards of their families welfare.
Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
No.  WWII brought the US out of the depression -not FDR.  There was a brief 'stimulus' but then it petered, until WWII started and awoke the industrial giant.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-07-01 21:03:36)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2009-07-01 21:12:45
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6867|132 and Bush

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
No.  WWII brought the US out of the depression -not FDR.  There was a brief 'stimulus' but then it petered, until WWII started and awoke the industrial giant.
You know, we actually went into a deep recession when fdr passed his plan.. lol.. often ignored.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-07-01 21:18:13
13rin
Member
+977|6746

Kmarion wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
No.  WWII brought the US out of the depression -not FDR.  There was a brief 'stimulus' but then it petered, until WWII started and awoke the industrial giant.
You know, we actually went into a deep recession when fdr passed his plan.. lol.. often ignored.
You're absolutely right.  It just depends on whose telling the history.  This does beg the question... Has history repeated itself?

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-07-01 21:32:18)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2009-07-01 21:44:44
Pinto
Member
+13|6846

Turquoise wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

LividBovine wrote:


I feel we shouldn't have bailed anything out.  Let the pieces fall and keep our fingers out of the pie.  The free market would have recovered at the appropriate rate.  If people suffer financially because of not saving enough, over-speculating, and building so much debt, then oh well.  Maybe they will learn a lesson in being good stewards of their families welfare.
Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
No it didn't.  I thought economists stated that his socialist policies actually prolonged the depression and needed WW2 to bail him out.  The market would always recover quicker without gov intervention.
2009-07-01 22:29:49
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6672|North Carolina

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:


Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
No.  WWII brought the US out of the depression -not FDR.  There was a brief 'stimulus' but then it petered, until WWII started and awoke the industrial giant.
Do you really think we would have had nearly as much industrial power by the time WW2 had come about if we had never engaged in things like Public Works projects?
2009-07-01 22:34:03
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6672|North Carolina

Pinto wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:


Lassie Faire and Personal Responsibility.  What concepts!  Unacceptable in this age.  Government must run everything.  This is now the American way.
Coolidge tried the laissez faire approach.  It failed.

FDR took the socialist approach.  It worked.
No it didn't.  I thought economists stated that his socialist policies actually prolonged the depression and needed WW2 to bail him out.  The market would always recover quicker without gov intervention.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FD … -5409.aspx

You're referring to the above article, most likely.

However, UCLA's analysis seems to ignore the investment needed before the war buildup to create enough infrastructure for entering the war.

If we had never engaged in the New Deal, we would not have been able to enter the war to the extent that we did.
2009-07-02 02:16:06
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6931|NT, like Mick Dundee

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:


No.  WWII brought the US out of the depression -not FDR.  There was a brief 'stimulus' but then it petered, until WWII started and awoke the industrial giant.
You know, we actually went into a deep recession when fdr passed his plan.. lol.. often ignored.
You're absolutely right.  It just depends on whose telling the history.  This does beg the question... Has history repeated itself?
There wont be a major war this time around to speed the recovery of the West.


Way too many nukes floating about these days.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2009-07-02 02:45:10
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6822

LividBovine wrote:

I blame Bush and Obama and Clinton and Bush and Carter and Reagan to various degrees and for different reasons.  I mostly blame our people for not realizing what they were giving away in the process of aquiring the illusion of security.  The US is far from it's roots and I think this is a bad thing.  Took me a while to realize it, and I hope others do so soon.  If someone realizes where the foundation of our country is laid, and structure we have deviated from and still wants to move on from here, so be it.  Our education system does not tell us alot of things we should know.  It is extremely biased.

You can call me a facist, tunnel visioned nutjob all you want.  I really don't care.  I just want people to actually look into the basis of what made our country great.  Then make decisions based on that knowledge.  I do realize there are those who want a more socialist type society, I am fine with that.  I just hate the fact that our choice between parties is Socialist and Socialist light now.  Even worse is the fact that most of the people are fooled into thinking the Republicans are really smaller government, when few of them actually are.

If the right was truely right I would agree with your statements about centre right and centre left.  Unfortuately, in my opinion, we are choosing from left and far left.
I don't regard you as a fascist, I regard you as a mono-thinker - someone that has an entrenched and perhaps uninformed view of the world and of economics (not that I am some kind of guru or anything). What made America great is its liberal constitution, everything after that is up for debate. America isn't so great to those trapped in inter-generational cycles of poverty for instance. It is only great from a particular standpoint, as is the case in most countries. Right wing politics of the American variety, which is pretty much hard right fiscally speaking when compared against the rest of the first world, has mainly served to widen the poverty gap in America - something I would regard as a key indicator of how healthy or unhealthy a society is. If you honestly think that Republican fiscal policy passes as left wing then I must tell you that you are completely and utterly deluded. Lowering taxes and favouring corporate interests above all else is about as right wing as it gets. What some people seem to fail to accept is that government spending is a NECESSITY. You can lower taxes until the cows come home but beyond a certain point it will only lead to one thing: budget deficit. I take your point on the Republicans not being about small government, I think you are correct on that count.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-02 02:46:15)

2009-07-02 04:14:24
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6646|MN

CameronPoe wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

I blame Bush and Obama and Clinton and Bush and Carter and Reagan to various degrees and for different reasons.  I mostly blame our people for not realizing what they were giving away in the process of aquiring the illusion of security.  The US is far from it's roots and I think this is a bad thing.  Took me a while to realize it, and I hope others do so soon.  If someone realizes where the foundation of our country is laid, and structure we have deviated from and still wants to move on from here, so be it.  Our education system does not tell us alot of things we should know.  It is extremely biased.

You can call me a facist, tunnel visioned nutjob all you want.  I really don't care.  I just want people to actually look into the basis of what made our country great.  Then make decisions based on that knowledge.  I do realize there are those who want a more socialist type society, I am fine with that.  I just hate the fact that our choice between parties is Socialist and Socialist light now.  Even worse is the fact that most of the people are fooled into thinking the Republicans are really smaller government, when few of them actually are.

If the right was truely right I would agree with your statements about centre right and centre left.  Unfortuately, in my opinion, we are choosing from left and far left.
I don't regard you as a fascist, I regard you as a mono-thinker - someone that has an entrenched and perhaps uninformed view of the world and of economics (not that I am some kind of guru or anything). What made America great is its liberal constitution, everything after that is up for debate. America isn't so great to those trapped in inter-generational cycles of poverty for instance. It is only great from a particular standpoint, as is the case in most countries. Right wing politics of the American variety, which is pretty much hard right fiscally speaking when compared against the rest of the first world, has mainly served to widen the poverty gap in America - something I would regard as a key indicator of how healthy or unhealthy a society is. If you honestly think that Republican fiscal policy passes as left wing then I must tell you that you are completely and utterly deluded. Lowering taxes and favouring corporate interests above all else is about as right wing as it gets. What some people seem to fail to accept is that government spending is a NECESSITY. You can lower taxes until the cows come home but beyond a certain point it will only lead to one thing: budget deficit. I take your point on the Republicans not being about small government, I think you are correct on that count.
I have not, in any way, said to remove all social programs, and I have not said that there are not people that need some assistance.  I just want more control over who get that assistance.  My biggest beef, for now anyways, is the size of the federal government.  If we restore more power to the states, where it should be, we could vote more effectively for the programs we want to have as a population.  I do not feel we, as a population, are represented very well.  There is far to great a disconnect from the politicians in Washington.  Another idea I like is term limits.  Politicians are far too comfortable, and do not have to live with the consequences of their laws very often.
Sum it better for you?

And stop with the labels you really are annoying that way.  Weakens any argument you may have.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-07-02 05:32:03
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6822

LividBovine wrote:

I have not, in any way, said to remove all social programs, and I have not said that there are not people that need some assistance...
Sum it better for you?

And stop with the labels you really are annoying that way.  Weakens any argument you may have.
So basically in the context of this...

LividBovine wrote:

Our democracy was fine till we mixed in a little socialism.
... you are a barrel of self-contradiction.
2009-07-02 06:22:02
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6646|MN

CameronPoe wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

I have not, in any way, said to remove all social programs, and I have not said that there are not people that need some assistance...
Sum it better for you?

And stop with the labels you really are annoying that way.  Weakens any argument you may have.
So basically in the context of this...

LividBovine wrote:

Our democracy was fine till we mixed in a little socialism.
... you are a barrel of self-contradiction.
Allright then, seeing how you are unwilling to make the connections and want to play me for a fool.  Here is my stance:

Drastically smaller federal government.  Keep the social programs out, period.

More state power.  Put in social programs if they choose.  I don't want them, but it is a local fight not a national one. 

That clearer for you.  You want to argue the points or keep picking petty fights?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-07-02 07:54:08
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6822

LividBovine wrote:

Allright then, seeing how you are unwilling to make the connections and want to play me for a fool.  Here is my stance:

Drastically smaller federal government.  Keep the social programs out, period.

More state power.  Put in social programs if they choose.  I don't want them, but it is a local fight not a national one. 

That clearer for you.  You want to argue the points or keep picking petty fights?
If I was American I would be an advocate of greater state power, if it's any consolation. Given that we don't have federal programs in the EU I didn't realise that that was the case in the US.
2010-07-12 19:46:15
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6815|San Diego, CA, USA
Looks like he really did...an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.


Now they can't change the election results, but I wonder if this goes on in other districts?  Anyone checking the voting roles?
2010-07-12 20:19:21
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6983
He's doing a great job though.
Love is the answer
2010-07-12 22:19:27
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6672|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Looks like he really did...an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.


Now they can't change the election results, but I wonder if this goes on in other districts?  Anyone checking the voting roles?
A conservative watchdog group...  Ok, let's try and use research from a group that's nonpartisan.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-07-12 22:19:41)

2010-07-12 22:21:51
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6815|San Diego, CA, USA

Turquoise wrote:

Harmor wrote:

Looks like he really did...an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.


Now they can't change the election results, but I wonder if this goes on in other districts?  Anyone checking the voting roles?
A conservative watchdog group...  Ok, let's try and use research from a group that's nonpartisan.
Do you not believe the evidence they presented?  Does it matter the political affiliations of the 'group' if its factually verifiable?

 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard