Chard
Member
+1|6855|Christchurch, New Zealand
When you fire a missle at a helicopter (stinger, Tow, Anti tank, tank, Apc) where ever you hit the copter it does the same amount of damage.

But what if they changed it so if you hit in the back ( The rear rudder) the helicopter went down, not blow up but become almost impossable to control and go into a spin (like in black hawk down), that way you would have time to bail out and it would a another element of relism to the game.

what do you think? just a idea I've been thinking about

Last edited by Chard (2005-10-12 03:23:05)

kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6867|Bryan/College Station, TX
It would be a nice realistic damage mesh. However I'm not quite sure how they would do it without giving the tail area it's own damage rating and hitpoints. So when it went to zero it fell off and doing that transfers to losing rudder control in the helicopter (A & D keys). So yea I would love to see this but... I'm not going to hold my breath.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Chard
Member
+1|6855|Christchurch, New Zealand
yeah me nether Ea seems to be fixing things that are working fine but failing to address the real issues
Chard
Member
+1|6855|Christchurch, New Zealand

kilroy0097 wrote:

So when it went to zero it fell off and doing that transfers to losing rudder control in the helicopter (A & D keys). So yea I would love to see this but... I'm not going to hold my breath.
well when you lose the tail rudder its still possable to land and fly but your ether have to be really lucky or a really good pliot
nayo450
Member
+-1|6816
how a bout turbine damage mesh too? that way, when yu hit a turbine you culd effectively, and realisticly force the chopper to the ground
Chard
Member
+1|6855|Christchurch, New Zealand
I dont really understand where the turbines are. Are they the main blades?
Croak
Member
+11|6829|San Marcos, CA
Modern helicopters are jet turbine powered.  The turbines are the things that spin inside the jet engine cowling.  I'm sure you've seen the movies where people are sucked into a jet engine..the spinny choppy thing that kills them is the turbine. 

Last edited by Croak (2005-10-12 14:28:42)

tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|6871|San Francisco

Chard wrote:

When you fire a missle at a helicopter (stinger, Tow, Anti tank, tank, Apc) where ever you hit the copter it does the same amount of damage.
Actually, choppers have variable damage just like every other vehicle. The mec chopper for instance takes incredibly more damage if you shoot the landing tires than compared to the body.

Sure, it isnt as realistic as being able to blow off the tail, but then again very little about this game is actually 'realistic.'
Donnyboy
Member
+1|6809
It would be cool, but it would probably need a lot of work. Plus, they don't even have the physics for the torque down - If you apply power (push W), the helo (doesn't matter wich one) should try to spin opposite the blades. They did in DC, and to tell you the truth it used to drive me batshit crazy trying to fly them. I kinda like the current models they use.

Now, Maybe hit the tail boom/tail rotor and the chopper receives 95% damage? That I could buy. As for the turbines, well, let's argue for now that they're  armored and can digest anything thrown into them.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6867|Bryan/College Station, TX
In modern helicopters, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, they have included turbine engines to produce some forward thrust but mostly it's uplift force.

I have seen some fast modern helicopters use turbine engines but I believe its for the added lift and prop force that they are used for and not so much forward motion. However they are much faster due to the added power of the engine. I have seen some helicopters that actually do have added forward motion turbine propulsion however I don't see many. I can see the added benefit of forward propulsion in addition to upward lift motion but for most the tilt in the main rotor works well enough. Unlike in this game which is only a game, the main roter of the heli can tilt in high performance helicopters. Hence it would be at a 20% forward angle which could give the helicopter not only the lift it needs but also forward motion without the body having to be unlevel to the ground.

Also if the roter goes out on a conventional helicopter you immediately lose an sort of yaw control. Your entire craft will start spinning in the direction of the main roter. The rear roter prevents the gyroscopic motion from happening and depending on the speed the rear roter spins gives you the left and right rotation. You can't fly very well at all and you hope that you are level. All you have is the main roter which spins slower very quickly as the fuselage is taking energy away from it.

So when you tilt in an direction, its the roter that sets you in that direction and in some helicopters the rear elevator adds to this at high speeds. Much depends on the helicopter really. I'm typing this all from memory so excuse any errors.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Croak
Member
+11|6829|San Marcos, CA
Nope, all conventional choppers use the turbine to spin the rotors...there's just a little ducted exhaust coming out the back (and even that they don't like on military birds, more exhaust=bigger IR signature).

You're right, a real chopper simulator would have full cyclic and collective controls along with pedals, giving you far more control and the ability to fly level at max speed.  BF2 does simulate this to some extent, the max level flight speed of the various birds is fairly close to the real world...anything over that is just speed picked up in a dive.
Donnyboy
Member
+1|6809
If it was a real simulation, there would be gyroscopic precession to deal with (when you pitch forward, helo would also roll right (CW) or left (CCW). Opposite is also true), as well as retreating blade stall, coriolis effect, density altitude, CG shift, and a few others

Last edited by Donnyboy (2005-10-12 23:21:14)

Adonlude
Member
+2|6803
Video game forum or intellect competition... you decide?
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6861
They need to make Helios Weaker over all. You hammer them With 25mm and a tow.
then watch them Fly awaaaaaaayyyy
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6867|Bryan/College Station, TX
See I don't see too much trouble with the current damage resistance of the helicopters in the game except for one thing. A tank direct shot should take it down with one hit no exceptions.

The rest seem about right to me. Given the mesh model and the limited damage they can accurately show they are about as good as they are going to get. Also keep in mind the limited airspace and constant defensive maneuvering you have to do in them against a good enemy team. Combat helicopters are very useful but in real life situation I do not see them being shot out of the sky by tanks or seeing Anti-Vehicle (Javelin/Dragon) type missles being fired at them unless they are very low and stationary covering an area.

Most combat missions I've seen (which are only on TV and videos on the computer rendered from footage which were taken by soldiers in Iraq or film crews) the helicopter seems to be a strike and leave combat vehicle. They fly in with a target planned or called in. They come in low, they pop up and target, shoot and then fly over and pass around and do their runs. When I see them come in for infantry support they blow up a building and or do a slow fly by removing vehicles or dug in enemy with their front mounted cannon.

They do not come in slow for flag captures. They do not hover in a heavy fire zone and simply take it. If it gets hot and heavy they are fast movers and they do not remain stationary.

This game is unique in that and because of the usage of these helicopters in the game they must make them more resistant to damage or else they would all be dead in very little time at all. People would then complain about that.

That's my logic behind them. I'm not a big combat heli pilot though I do gun once in a while. I think they are a very important element in the game when used tactically and used in a good manner to support troop movement and removing targets of opportunity that infantry can't handle as well (Vehicles, Emplacements, Heavily defended areas, Other Helicopters).

BTW in added thought after using the Cobra's front mounted cannon yesterday morning, I don't know if I've gotten better or else they increased the damage output of the cannon. I was killing infantry and vehicles much faster it seemed.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Dizazter
Crazy has a mind of its own
+0|6844

kilroy0097 wrote:

This game is unique in that and because of the usage of these helicopters in the game they must make them more resistant to damage or else they would all be dead in very little time at all. People would then complain about that.

That's my logic behind them. I'm not a big combat heli pilot though I do gun once in a while. I think they are a very important element in the game when used tactically and used in a good manner to support troop movement and removing targets of opportunity that infantry can't handle as well (Vehicles, Emplacements, Heavily defended areas, Other Helicopters).

BTW in added thought after using the Cobra's front mounted cannon yesterday morning, I don't know if I've gotten better or else they increased the damage output of the cannon. I was killing infantry and vehicles much faster it seemed.
I would have to agree with you. What people dont seem to realize when they complain about the ground to Air diffulties in killing choppers, is how vulnerable choppers are to planes. A plane can often make 2 or 3 passes on a chopper before it can get to safer territory.

I noticed that too with the gunner position on attack choppers. I think they increased the damage, or splash radius, cause that thing seems to hose infantry rather easily now.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6861
The Helio is a Fringe of battlefield Weapon, Exept when we are Fighting people from the stonage or limited Tech Countrys. The will mostly fly in darkness where it is safer for them. The Are very vunarable.
Nightrider^
Member
+0|6781

tF-voodoochild wrote:

Chard wrote:

When you fire a missle at a helicopter (stinger, Tow, Anti tank, tank, Apc) where ever you hit the copter it does the same amount of damage.
Actually, choppers have variable damage just like every other vehicle. The mec chopper for instance takes incredibly more damage if you shoot the landing tires than compared to the body.

Sure, it isnt as realistic as being able to blow off the tail, but then again very little about this game is actually 'realistic.'
HAHAHAH WHAT?! flat tire or what? xD

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