BF2S Forums GM bankruptcy: End of an era

Turquoise wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Karbin wrote:

A big part of the problem is NA is one of the few places that auto corps can import to with out high tax tariffs.
If one of the Detroit 3 want to import a car to say, Korea,  first there's a import tax of 90%. Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules. ( the one that keeps being used is license plate location on imports. Keeps changing week to week)
Japan.... well... from NA to them is just about imposable. The paper work and taxes would make a , say, G6 cost about as much as a fully dressed out Hummer here.
Europe... import rules make it cheaper to just buy a plant and build there then to import. These rules don't apply to Euro auto corps...just auto corps from NA.
BMW, Merc and Audi have a big enough demand that it's cheaper to build some in NA and import the rest. They also get to say "Hey look, we're building here."
China.... export only with NA.. No imports. Build it here only. And yes Buick is the biggest seller there for NA type cars.

I have no idea what you're saying. You have 'import' and 'export' mixed up several times eg. you can't import something to another country. and consequently what you said makes no sense what so ever.

But one question: How come Japan and Europe can import and export to each other very successfully? Is it some kind of conspiracy out to get only NA car manufactures? Or is it that NA car manufactures just can't build a car worth selling overseas?

Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules.

You build to the market, if you want to export something you take their laws into consideration when developing. And again, Japan and Europe can meet NA safety standards why not the other way round?

Actually, both American automakers and East Asian ones run into tariffs and other barriers to trade in Europe.  There are American cars in Europe (Ford does pretty well in some sectors) just like there are Japanese ones, but any automaker outside of the EU has to deal with a lot more red tape when trying to do business in Europe, as opposed to doing business here.

On the other hand, Japan, Korea, and China are all also protectionist.

In general, America has some of the most open markets in the world.  We engage in far less protectionism than most other countries.  This results in more choices for consumers but makes it harder for some of our own companies to compete globally.

Granted, a lot of GM's problems can be traced to quality and labor issues.  The fact that Ford can find its niche in Europe shows that, despite tariffs and protectionism, they can still flourish (albeit with a competitive disadvantage).

Turquoise wrote:

Karbin wrote:

I won't debate the quality issue as 9 out of 10 that I've seen or heard of were caused by management, re: the bean counters.
Labour issues I will.
In Japan the labour costs MORE then in NA. Same thing with most of the German makers. The big difference being healthcare costs.

Well, healthcare is actually cheaper for Japan and Germany because both countries have socialized medicine.  From the employer's perspective, it's much more affordable to give benefits to employees in those countries because the government already handles healthcare.  While employers still handle a few supplemental services, they have far fewer overall responsibilities.

Because employers here have to provide most of the healthcare benefits of their employees here, it's actually more expensive here.

Kmarion wrote:

Prevent what? They didn't sell cars and they elevated idiots to run their company. fail is fail

Now they are doing what they should have done over a decade ago. Fixing their gameplan.

Last edited by Karbin (2009-06-01 19:58:05)

Turquoise wrote:

Karbin wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'd rather push for socialized healthcare than support a union that is slowly killing a company.

And how is having a union that has healthcare slowly killing a company?

Second. The U.S. will never have WORKING socialized healthcare system like those countries. Too many market forces, read big healthcare business for it to work.
So, your pucked both ways.

First, the union is killing them because Honda and Toyota do just fine here with production without unions.

Second, we could have socialized medicine, but it just takes a lot of effort to get past the corporate interests against it.

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

So what can be done about the Union and the douchebag executives that pay themselves first... and don't seem to care much for the workers...
What do the workers want...?
That's what Obama should be asking...(help main street not wall street...remembering his campaign speeches)
Would the workers work for less for a period of time to keep themselves employed and also... so their retired brothers and sisters can keep some of their retirement benefits.... just wondering?

Maybe have 8 or 10 smaller private sector companies with various ideas and new models compete to make the best cars...

You might end up right on the second point, but as for the first, I'd rather the Japanese spend tax money on corporations than have my own spent on them.

Turquoise wrote:

]In general, America has some of the most open markets in the world.  We engage in far less protectionism than most other countries.

Harmor wrote:

Why would anyone buy a GM or Chrysler car now?  And with 'mandates' Obama put on these companies to shift to smaller cars will American buy them?

Personally I liked the Chrysler 300...I guess I won't be buying that anytime soon.

Look, Americans like big cars.  Face it.  Moms with 2-3 kids plus the neighbor's kid isn't going to put up with a Geo Metro.  Also you have a higher chance of survival if you're in a larger vehicle.