BF2S Forums GM bankruptcy: End of an era

Finance health care through taxes and relieve the burden of health care from all businesses. Then may be car companies can compete. But then again this is the trend with globalization, its a race to the bottom on wages and benefits. Companies move from places like the US to mexico then on to Malaysia just to seek out represssive regimes that will force workers for wages and in conditions not seen since the industrial revolution. Its a trend that started in the 1980s and is not likely to slow anytime soon.

Either the global bottom has to come up to our standards or the US economic conplex will eventually be gutted. The tax money pouring into GM and other companies is only a temporary stop gap measure to keep other countries from stripping the US. After they burn through the money we will be in the same position again but only worse because we will still be paying off the first round of bail outs.

DrunkFace wrote:

Or develop a car someone outside the US might want to drive.

^ what he said.

After all those billions we pumped into GM...

DrunkFace wrote:

Or develop a car someone outside the US might want to drive.

erm.....japan buys a shitload of buicks for example.  they love them for some reason.

FatherTed wrote:

tbh the only American car that you see a few of (and i mean a few) are the 300c's, and the odd Mustang.

I've seen more Veyrons than Corvettes.

ok?  but there are no options from europe for us like there is from japan.  why is that?

FatherTed wrote:

i saw plenty of BMW's, Mercs & Audis last time i was in America.

those are luxury cars.  i am talking mid priced cars.  camry, civic, etc

Well I guess Holden is a bit fucked then.

usmarine wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Or develop a car someone outside the US might want to drive.

erm.....japan buys a shitload of buicks for example.  they love them for some reason.

I think you mean the Chinese.  For some odd reason the Buick is a status symbol there.

A big part of the problem is NA is one of the few places that auto corps can import to with out high tax tariffs.
If one of the Detroit 3 want to import a car to say, Korea,  first there's a import tax of 90%. Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules. ( the one that keeps being used is license plate location on imports. Keeps changing week to week)
Japan.... well... from NA to them is just about imposable. The paper work and taxes would make a , say, G6 cost about as much as a fully dressed out Hummer here.
Europe... import rules make it cheaper to just buy a plant and build there then to import. These rules don't apply to Euro auto corps...just auto corps from NA.
BMW, Merc and Audi have a big enough demand that it's cheaper to build some in NA and import the rest. They also get to say "Hey look, we're building here."
China.... export only with NA.. No imports. Build it here only. And yes Buick is the biggest seller there for NA type cars.

Last edited by Karbin (2009-06-01 12:17:06)

Karbin wrote:

A big part of the problem is NA is one of the few places that auto corps can import to with out high tax tariffs.
If one of the Detroit 3 want to import a car to say, Korea,  first there's a import tax of 90%. Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules. ( the one that keeps being used is license plate location on imports. Keeps changing week to week)
Japan.... well... from NA to them is just about imposable. The paper work and taxes would make a , say, G6 cost about as much as a fully dressed out Hummer here.
Europe... import rules make it cheaper to just buy a plant and build there then to import. These rules don't apply to Euro auto corps...just auto corps from NA.
BMW, Merc and Audi have a big enough demand that it's cheaper to build some in NA and import the rest. They also get to say "Hey look, we're building here."
China.... export only with NA.. No imports. Build it here only. And yes Buick is the biggest seller there for NA type cars.

I have no idea what you're saying. You have 'import' and 'export' mixed up several times eg. you can't import something to another country. and consequently what you said makes no sense what so ever.

But one question: How come Japan and Europe can import and export to each other very successfully? Is it some kind of conspiracy out to get only NA car manufactures? Or is it that NA car manufactures just can't build a car worth selling overseas?

Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules.

You build to the market, if you want to export something you take their laws into consideration when developing. And again, Japan and Europe can meet NA safety standards why not the other way round?

Stock Market to GM: See you in hell. Dow up 221.

DrunkFace wrote:

Karbin wrote:

A big part of the problem is NA is one of the few places that auto corps can import to with out high tax tariffs.
If one of the Detroit 3 want to import a car to say, Korea,  first there's a import tax of 90%. Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules. ( the one that keeps being used is license plate location on imports. Keeps changing week to week)
Japan.... well... from NA to them is just about imposable. The paper work and taxes would make a , say, G6 cost about as much as a fully dressed out Hummer here.
Europe... import rules make it cheaper to just buy a plant and build there then to import. These rules don't apply to Euro auto corps...just auto corps from NA.
BMW, Merc and Audi have a big enough demand that it's cheaper to build some in NA and import the rest. They also get to say "Hey look, we're building here."
China.... export only with NA.. No imports. Build it here only. And yes Buick is the biggest seller there for NA type cars.

I have no idea what you're saying. You have 'import' and 'export' mixed up several times eg. you can't import something to another country. and consequently what you said makes no sense what so ever.

But one question: How come Japan and Europe can import and export to each other very successfully? Is it some kind of conspiracy out to get only NA car manufactures? Or is it that NA car manufactures just can't build a car worth selling overseas?

Then there's ALWAYS something on the car that doesn't meet their safety rules.

You build to the market, if you want to export something you take their laws into consideration when developing. And again, Japan and Europe can meet NA safety standards why not the other way round?

I'm sitting in NA...try it from there.

NA auto corps CAN NOT freely send cars to Japan or Korea. Full stop.
To protect their auto corps their governments make it near impossible for Ford, GM or Chrysler to get their products imported.
Korea, as I stated, plays games with items like license plate mountings. Where and what size. This is on cars from NA ONLY. And it changes weekly.

As for Europe:

The governments there make it cheaper for a NA auto corp to BUY or BUILD a plant there then to import a car built in NA.
So you get GM buying Vauxhall and Volvo so they have a product in Europe. ( They also got a tax break from the U.S. gov in a investment tax dodge)

China:
Cars go out. NA cars DO NOT get in. Full Stop.
"Build it here, or no market for you. Then we can rip your technology off, build a clone of your product and put a Cherry logo on it."
If you want examples of this just check out their domestic autos. So far China has cloned, Toyota, VW, GM and Chrysler products.
And have NOT paid a dime back to those Corps for it.

Last edited by Karbin (2009-06-01 15:04:33)

I'm curious as to how a company loses over a billion dollars. I mean, good god y'all.