Future Brain Replication (artificially/mechanically)

2009-05-23 16:12:15

#1

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6644|California

So I was watching "The Day of the Cyborg" on the science channel that was all about implants that are starting to be implemented to regain sight from complete blindness, control movement, etc. Now, a while bag I remember seeing an engineering law made by someone, but of course I can't remember the specifics or even the damn name. But, it said that ever x years (<10) the capacity of transistors increases by x amount (some exponential amount).

My question is, do you think that at any time in the future (alright, lets say within the next 5,000 years) we will be able to replicate the human brain in capacity, speed and/or ability?

I think we will, considering how much has been accomplished in the past 50 years.

2009-05-23 17:36:11

#2

Harmor: Error_Name_Not_Found; +605|6849|San Diego, CA, USA

Someone been watching Ghost in the Shell.

Yes it will be possible, but what will happen to your soul? To me you would have a replicate of yourself thinking as you would if you were alive, but not the real you.

2009-05-23 17:40:48

#3

mcminty: Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.; +879|7022|Sydney, Australia

xBlackPantherx wrote:
I remember seeing an engineering law made by someone, but of course I can't remember the specifics or even the damn name. But, it said that ever x years (<10) the capacity of transistors increases by x amount (some exponential amount).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law ?

2009-05-23 17:45:36

#4

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6454|what

Eventually you hit the brick wall that is thermal dynamics. Components made from silicon have a melting point that renders Moore's law moot.

2009-05-23 19:28:28

#5

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7017

the world will have ended long before people are able to create a brain equivalent to a human...

Love is the answer

2009-05-23 21:37:27

#6

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6976|Canberra, AUS

AussieReaper wrote:
Eventually you hit the brick wall that is thermal dynamics. Components made from silicon have a melting point that renders Moore's law moot.

Hence why they're chucking on more cores, not more clockspeed.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-05-23 23:10:51

#7

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6644|California

Harmor wrote:
Someone been watching Ghost in the Shell.

Yes it will be possible, but what will happen to your soul? To me you would have a replicate of yourself thinking as you would if you were alive, but not the real you.

I'm not sure I know what Ghost in the Shell is. I don't necessarily mean anything like replicating a human. I just mean being able to duplicate the capacity/ability of a human brain. I mean, to be honest, the data our brain processes and stores would be equivalent to something like a 1000 core, 20,000 ghz, million terabyte computer (just as an example).

And yes, thank you. Moore's Law. And I can understand the brick wall with heat, but that can be fixed by coolants or more cores, etc.

2009-05-23 23:30:39

#8

tazz.: oz.; +1,339|6475|Sydney | ♥

Within 5000 years, the planet of the earth will be no more. We all know nukes are gonna destroy us all, just a amatter of time.

^{everything i write is a ramble and should not be taken seriously.... _{seriously. ♥}}

2009-05-23 23:39:50

#9

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6644|California

First off, I put this in D&ST to avoid all the "Omg yer so stupid the earth will be gone by then anyways. Duh." comments.

Secondly, maybe we won't have just transistors with that kind of capacity either. What about http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=125888

2009-05-24 08:53:25

#10

Vilham: Say wat!?; +580|7067|UK

[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the world will have ended long before people are able to create a brain equivalent to a human...

Um no it won't. We already have the computing power of a mouses brain in the worlds fastest super computer. Within 10-20 years the worlds fastest super computer will match that of a human.

Then 10 years after that desktops will be that powerful. At the 360's release (2005) it had the same computer power as the worlds fastest super computer from 1998.

Last edited by Vilham (2009-05-24 08:54:37)

2009-05-24 12:42:18

#11

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6644|California

Vilham wrote:
[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the world will have ended long before people are able to create a brain equivalent to a human...
Um no it won't. We already have the computing power of a mouses brain in the worlds fastest super computer. Within 10-20 years the worlds fastest super computer will match that of a human.

Then 10 years after that desktops will be that powerful. At the 360's release (2005) it had the same computer power as the worlds fastest super computer from 1998.

Also, my iPhone or your Zune or your something similar could power the shuttle used to go to the moon 1000 fold.

2009-05-24 13:51:57

#12

Monkey Spanker: Show it to the nice monkey.; +284|6553|England

Brain power is not computing power. The brain has such complex functions that it would take a unbelievable amount of R & D to replicate a human brains nuances & processes the cost would be phenomenal, you would be asking a computer to replicate emotions, as well as all the other cognative functions that a brain does.

I hope one day that something is possible as i work rehabbing people with Acquired Brain Injuries, & trust me when I say that I would love this to be possible but it is so far in the future its crazy.

This is just the basics of what a brain does. I would love to see a confuser do just a 5Th of this.

CEREBRAL CORTEX Frontal Lobe: Most anterior, right under the forehead.

Functions:

* How we know what we are doing within our environment (Consciousness). How we initiate activity in response to our environment. Judgments we make about what occurs in our daily activities. Controls our emotional response. Controls our expressive language. Assigns meaning to the words we choose. Involves word associations.
* Memory for habits and motor activities.

Parietal Lobe: near the back and top of the head.Functions:

* Location for visual attention. Location for touch perception. Goal directed voluntary movements. Manipulation of objects.
* Integration of different senses that allows for understanding a single concept.

Occipital Lobes: Most posterior, at the back of the head.Functions:

* Vision

Temporal Lobes: Side of head above ears.Functions:

* Hearing ability Memory acquisition Some visual perceptions
* Categorization of objects.

BRAIN STEM Deep in Brain, leads to spinal cord.Functions:

* Breathing Heart Rate Swallowing Reflexes to seeing and hearing (Startle Response). Controls sweating, blood pressure, digestion, temperature (Autonomic Nervous System). Affects level of alertness. Ability to sleep.
* Sense of balance (Vestibular Function).

CEREBELLUM Located at the base of the skull.Functions:

* Coordination of voluntary movement Balance and equilibrium
* Some memory for reflex motor acts.

https://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e224/smuder201/brainlobesmap.jpg

edit pic added

Last edited by smuder201 (2009-05-24 13:54:09)

Quote of the year so far "Fifa 11 on the other hand... shiny things for mongos "-mtb0minime

https://bf3s.com/sigs/f30415b2d1cff840176cce816dc76d89a7929bb0.png

2009-05-24 18:56:08

#13

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,060|7073|PNW

xBlackPantherx wrote:
So I was watching "The Day of the Cyborg" on the science channel that was all about implants that are starting to be implemented to regain sight from complete blindness, control movement, etc. Now, a while bag I remember seeing an engineering law made by someone, but of course I can't remember the specifics or even the damn name. But, it said that ever x years (<10) the capacity of transistors increases by x amount (some exponential amount).

My question is, do you think that at any time in the future (alright, lets say within the next 5,000 years) we will be able to replicate the human brain in capacity, speed and/or ability?

I think we will, considering how much has been accomplished in the past 50 years.

You could replicate a brain with the right amount of miniturized transistors, but you still need the programming to emulate its adaptability. You could make an AI, but it's going to be more difficult to make something that will parallel an individual's own development.

smuder201 wrote:
Brain power is not computing power. The brain has such complex functions that it would take a unbelievable amount of R & D to replicate a human brains nuances & processes the cost would be phenomenal, you would be asking a computer to replicate emotions, as well as all the other cognative functions that a brain does.

5000 years is a lot of time to work with.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-05-24 18:56:49)

2009-05-25 00:23:51

#14

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6882|the dank(super) side of Oregon

i'm more interested in augmenting brain function. wireless interfacing, improved input and output capability, information integration. exciting and dangerous implications.

2009-05-25 00:34:00

#15

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7017

the computer has no soul...

Love is the answer

2009-05-25 00:46:59

#16

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,060|7073|PNW

[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the computer has no soul...

Not always true. This is stuff of sci-fi, and some sci-fi gives computers more soul than human counterparts.

Reciprocity wrote:
i'm more interested in augmenting brain function. wireless interfacing, improved input and output capability, information integration. exciting and dangerous implications.

I'd rather suffer through language school than learn Russian in 20 seconds only to open my brain up to potential infection by a series of cybernetic viruses.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-05-25 00:48:39)

2009-05-25 00:49:41

#17

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6882|the dank(super) side of Oregon

what constitutes a soul? do animals have souls?

Last edited by Reciprocity (2009-05-25 00:50:45)

2009-05-25 00:51:40

#18

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,060|7073|PNW

Reciprocity wrote:
what constitutes a soul? do animals have souls?

Depends on which believers in the soul you ask. Not all agree.

2009-05-25 01:15:53

#19

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6882|the dank(super) side of Oregon

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I'd rather suffer through language school than learn Russian in 20 seconds only to open my brain up to potential infection by a series of cybernetic viruses.

exciting and inevitable choices. the intersection of man and machine is rapidly approaching. when i was born, only 27 years ago, rotary telephones were still common, personal computers were still in infancy, the internet was an academic toy and sequencing the human genome was a fantasy. i can't even imagine where we'll be when i'm 54.

2009-05-25 12:18:10

#20

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6644|California

Reciprocity wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I'd rather suffer through language school than learn Russian in 20 seconds only to open my brain up to potential infection by a series of cybernetic viruses.
i can't even imagine where we'll be when i'm 64.

Fixd for you

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Beatles reference

Why do you assume you'll get viruses? You don't necessarily have to be connected to the internet to learn that Russian. And, worst case you'd have to reset the technology in your brain and it would have no effect on the brain itself.

Last edited by xBlackPantherx (2009-05-25 12:20:12)

2009-05-26 21:40:17

#21

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,060|7073|PNW

Reciprocity wrote:
unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I'd rather suffer through language school than learn Russian in 20 seconds only to open my brain up to potential infection by a series of cybernetic viruses.
exciting and inevitable choices. the intersection of man and machine is rapidly approaching. when i was born, only 27 years ago, rotary telephones were still common, personal computers were still in infancy, the internet was an academic toy and sequencing the human genome was a fantasy. i can't even imagine where we'll be when i'm 54.

Well, don't think too far ahead. It's still possible to hit roadblocks in physics and economics that can hinder technological expansion. I'm just counting on a new set of joints to replace the ones that'll inevitably be crushed in construction jobs by the time I'm 70.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-05-26 21:40:47)

2009-05-26 21:54:43

#22

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6882|the dank(super) side of Oregon

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I'm just counting on a new set of joints to replace the ones that'll inevitably be crushed in construction jobs by the time I'm 70.

super joints? with laserbeams?

2009-05-26 22:18:35

#23

xBlackPantherx: Grow up, or die; +142|6644|California

unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Well, don't think too far ahead. It's still possible to hit roadblocks in physics and economics that can hinder technological expansion. I'm just counting on a new set of joints to replace the ones that'll inevitably be crushed in construction jobs by the time I'm 70.

Give me a petri dish and some disintegrating lattice structure and I could make you new joints. Or some titanium like my mother had. Whichever you prefer. Natural or metal. That's not in the future, that's. They can grow you a new heart and pretty much every organ except the brain.

2009-05-26 22:21:48

#24

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6454|what

Reciprocity wrote:
what constitutes a soul? do animals have souls?

There's always been "ghosts" in the machine.

2009-05-26 22:44:39

#25

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6882|the dank(super) side of Oregon

AussieReaper wrote:
Reciprocity wrote:
what constitutes a soul? do animals have souls?
There's always been "ghosts" in the machine.

i demand a brain case and my very own Motoko Kusanagi play thing.

Last edited by Reciprocity (2009-05-26 22:46:18)

BF2S Forums Future Brain Replication (artificially/mechanically)

xBlackPantherx wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Harmor wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Vilham wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

xBlackPantherx wrote:

smuder201 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

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