That was out of line for them to do, but it is understandable. I sure don't feel bad for the moron who tried to get away in the van.
Was your crime a violent crime, almost killing civilians and police officers? Ya see, there is a difference in my mind as to what deserves a beat down and what does not. shop lifting hardly warrants a beat down, unless of course your attitude and actions while questioning brings out the worst in you.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
Well, no , not really, as I you know I´ve been to prison, It ain´t that great. The laws themselves should be the real threat to any criminals, not the mood of the officers catching them. As I said I see where you´re coming from and I said I agreed to some point, you might have and off day at work, moodswings, pms, whatever really.
If you are unconscious you are not a danger to anyone and should be threated thereafter. The previous happenings should not really matter, this is upkeeping the law, not war. But as I said I can understand the anger and the feelings such an event would create, but it still doesn´t make it right, atleast not in the eye of the law. You have to decide if we should be civlilized and be better then such assholes or lower ourself to their level and standards, in which case they will beat the law with experience.
The fact still is that if you can´t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen, this goes for both cops and criminals I guess.
I did my time, I knew what I was doing, I´m fine with it, but if the officers would have broken the law just to "give me what I deserved" I would never trust in the law again, in no situations at all. Now I was threated fair and just according to the laws which I choose to break and I have a different kind of respect for them ever since.
So if the police aren't allowed to pursue a suspect... it would happen even more often... all you have to do is run away... the cops can't chase you... not a good plan in my opinioncpt.fass1 wrote:
Again what did he do? Edit; He could have had a dime bag, been having a bad day, freaked out and ran. Problem when we have a crazy expensive system to run. Those brand new cars the cops have aren't free.lowing wrote:
innocent people don't usually try to run over police officers and innocent civilians. Just a thought, if they did as and were innocent, they are no longer innocent after the attempts to run people over.cpt.fass1 wrote:
AMERICA HERE.. Why where they chasing him? Innocent intill proven guilty, ext. Those dude should get attempt murder charges, if you CAN"T handle these situation with a cool head, please don't be a police officer..
I could care less about that bastard, but if the systems of checks and balances go in the way of judge Dread we're all going to be in a heap of shit.. Accountability is part of the job/
One of the biggest problems I have with our Criminal system is that by chasing people it usually creates a more dangerous situation.. Someone steals a car that's worth 5k they run and end up causing 50k worth of damage in the case? How does that even make sense?
as someone wrote on another website...
"The problem was that they acted like pissed off human beings who'd just witnessed this A-hole run down their friend instead of the robots we want hem to be."
and now they are talking about this runaway drivers civil rights being violated... I don't think the officers thought much about what color his skin was... just that he had just hit one of their fellow officers...
Love is the answer
If you can get the situation resolved without endangering everyone then yes. Then you get them after wards. I didn't say let them ago, I said asses the situation and if putting one man behind bars is worth 10 people dieing then you're wrong.. It's not grand theft auto, you follow with a helicopter have the ground pursuit back off. He's got to stop sometime then you attempt an arrest.lowing wrote:
Better than letting him get away with it.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Again what did he do?lowing wrote:
innocent people don't usually try to run over police officers and innocent civilians. Just a thought, if they did as and were innocent, they are no longer innocent after the attempts to run people over.
One of the biggest problems I have with our Criminal system is that by chasing people it usually creates a more dangerous situation.. Someone steals a car that's worth 5k they run and end up causing 50k worth of damage in the case? How does that even make sense?
Would you let highjackers go and remain successful highjacking planes because you didn't want passengers hurt?
That same mentality prevailed with the Somali pirates, they went unchecked for so long that they were actually surprised when someone fought back.
No it wasn´t, besides from my use of drugs, wich I choosed to import myself during my 15 years of habits I never broke any other laws, never hurt anyone, never driven under the influence, payed all my taxes, still have the same job I first got when I was 17 and generaly was and still am a nice guy (beleive it ot not hehe)...
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
Lets go to my survey..
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=125781&p=3
Now you see the majority of American's here have gotten fined, while the majority of people in other nations have not..
Hmmm interesting.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=125781&p=3
Now you see the majority of American's here have gotten fined, while the majority of people in other nations have not..
Hmmm interesting.
I'm sorry, lowing, but the behaviour exhibited by the officers in this video is criminal. Your problem is simply that you're not consistent in your vociferous hatred of criminals.lowing wrote:
Shhhhhhhhhhhh don't tell the criminal sympathizers that. They will get pissed at you. THey save their anger for those that challenge criminal behavior, not the criminal behavior itself.Kmarion wrote:
I don't feel sorry for him. He could have slammed into any innocent person/family.lowing wrote:
either way, are you left to believe the criminal gave a fuck who he killed in order to save his own skin from jail?
Last edited by mikkel (2009-05-21 16:16:11)
Gee I hope you have a lot of helicopters to cover all the criminals when that get wind of your proposal.cpt.fass1 wrote:
If you can get the situation resolved without endangering everyone then yes. Then you get them after wards. I didn't say let them ago, I said asses the situation and if putting one man behind bars is worth 10 people dieing then you're wrong.. It's not grand theft auto, you follow with a helicopter have the ground pursuit back off. He's got to stop sometime then you attempt an arrest.lowing wrote:
Better than letting him get away with it.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Again what did he do?
One of the biggest problems I have with our Criminal system is that by chasing people it usually creates a more dangerous situation.. Someone steals a car that's worth 5k they run and end up causing 50k worth of damage in the case? How does that even make sense?
Would you let highjackers go and remain successful highjacking planes because you didn't want passengers hurt?
That same mentality prevailed with the Somali pirates, they went unchecked for so long that they were actually surprised when someone fought back.
Yup I am, I just refuse to crimonalize cops in such situations.mikkel wrote:
I'm sorry, lowing, but the behaviour exhibited by the officers in this video is criminal. Your problem is simply that you're not consistent in your vociferous hatred of criminals.lowing wrote:
Shhhhhhhhhhhh don't tell the criminal sympathizers that. They will get pissed at you. THey save their anger for those that challenge criminal behavior, not the criminal behavior itself.Kmarion wrote:
I don't feel sorry for him. He could have slammed into any innocent person/family.
I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who doesn't know every detail of this incident beyond snippets of video and radio.
If the guy was putting up a fight, fine. But no, he was flung out of the car and dribbled on the ground like a limp sack of potatoes and went still before the cops even got to them. Even then, I can understand lost tempers, but that was unprofessional.
And to top it off, they hid the video.
If the guy was putting up a fight, fine. But no, he was flung out of the car and dribbled on the ground like a limp sack of potatoes and went still before the cops even got to them. Even then, I can understand lost tempers, but that was unprofessional.
And to top it off, they hid the video.
I think you can find some spare ones when the boys are coming home again...
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
No it wasn´t, besides from my use of drugs, wich I choosed to import myself during my 15 years of habits I never broke any other laws, never hurt anyone, never driven under the influence, payed all my taxes, still have the same job I first got when I was 17 and generaly was and still am a nice guy (beleive it ot not hehe)...
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
Did you even watch the video? The vehicle rolled and ejected the guy they were chasing. He wasn't even moving by the time they got to him. This wasn't like Rodney King.lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.
Edit: Sure, there's your reverse lesson involved (don't run from cops; when they got you they got you), but they could've been beating on a corpse.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-05-21 16:39:45)
Agreed.
Always nice to share ideas and views, I have respect for you ideals and values but it doesn´t mean I share them 100%.
How about redirecting some taxes that goes into wars, into the policeforce instead? Or perhaps even bordercontrol/customs? I speak of direct experience from both parties here, and trust me It´s not anyway near enough, not anywhere , not if the goverments all across the world are serious about theese issues.
Well, Australia is kinda hardass, but most others....meh.
Always nice to share ideas and views, I have respect for you ideals and values but it doesn´t mean I share them 100%.
How about redirecting some taxes that goes into wars, into the policeforce instead? Or perhaps even bordercontrol/customs? I speak of direct experience from both parties here, and trust me It´s not anyway near enough, not anywhere , not if the goverments all across the world are serious about theese issues.
Well, Australia is kinda hardass, but most others....meh.
No, you're not, and you don't need to criminalise the officers in this video. They're doing that on their own. You're arguing that it's okay to engage in criminal behaviour to punish criminal behaviour. So what are you? For it or against it?lowing wrote:
Yup I am, I just refuse to crimonalize cops in such situations.mikkel wrote:
I'm sorry, lowing, but the behaviour exhibited by the officers in this video is criminal. Your problem is simply that you're not consistent in your vociferous hatred of criminals.lowing wrote:
Shhhhhhhhhhhh don't tell the criminal sympathizers that. They will get pissed at you. THey save their anger for those that challenge criminal behavior, not the criminal behavior itself.
Last edited by mikkel (2009-05-21 16:53:41)
Fairly clear? If criminals, no matter police or not, punish them.lowing wrote:
I stopped reading after:
Cops = good
Criminals = bad
Cops are never criminals
Once I hit this bullshit, nothing else you had to say mattered. I never said cops were always right and never corrupt. corrupt cops are criminals as well. I kinda thought I said that already.
Bingo, give the man a cigar, check you humanity at the door when you put on a badge and a gun. That's what professionals do, they check their emotions.lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
No it wasn´t, besides from my use of drugs, wich I choosed to import myself during my 15 years of habits I never broke any other laws, never hurt anyone, never driven under the influence, payed all my taxes, still have the same job I first got when I was 17 and generaly was and still am a nice guy (beleive it ot not hehe)...
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
I would dispute the notion that being unemotional/professional makes for a weak police force. When miranda rights first came in similar arguments were made about cops have a tougher job etc etc, when in fact it made cops better and the evidence they collected stronger because the public had moire confidence that they could rely on the word of a cop. When cops are caught on camera behaving like a pack of wild dogs, or throwing high fives after beating a guy, they are hurting the reputation of all police and making the job of good professional/unemotional cops harder.
I had a friend who liked to watch college sports because of the emotion the players showed and he said he liked college sports better than professinal sports because the athletes showed emotion.
To which I said, if I wanted emotion out of an athlete I'd watch the special olympics. I prefer professional sports because its about execution and training skill to the level of perfection.
I certainly wouldn't want any emotional cripples with a gun and badge.
Anyway saying "I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described." That's something I can understand and its a heck of lot more honest than implying everyone else are cop haters and that the cops can do anything they want.
Then the only difference is that I set the bar of expectation higher, and Lowing, you set the bar lower.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
So where does the line be drawn? If not with the law, then where?lowing wrote:
Agree to disagree, cops are human and if you are looking for an emotionless robots to deal with every situation that comes along you are in for one weak ass police force. I bow to the fact that the cops have it tough, I support their efforts and forgive their transgressions while in scenarios such as those described.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
No it wasn´t, besides from my use of drugs, wich I choosed to import myself during my 15 years of habits I never broke any other laws, never hurt anyone, never driven under the influence, payed all my taxes, still have the same job I first got when I was 17 and generaly was and still am a nice guy (beleive it ot not hehe)...
As I said, who should decide who deserves the beating, I would say the law, I understand the feelings events like this creates, but if the police wants to beat criminals up in some situations there should be laws to control it or to not control it. If you fail at your job you are simply unprofessional, doesn´t make it right just because you wear the handcuffs. (omg that´s what she said!)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
So you don't care if this kind of action leads to more criminals running from the police and endangering innocent people and cops?lowing wrote:
Well then if they ar eworried about that maybe they should consider not breaking the law in the first place.PureFodder wrote:
Surely if the criminals believe they are likely to get a beating from the police when they surrender, they will be more inclined to run, putting more civillians and cops in danger?
Personally I support the police and the work they do which is why this sort of behaviour should be exposed and punished as they are making the job harder for, and endangering, the rest of the police.
BTW. in this instance the suspect had just been thrown from a car crash and suffered unknown injuries, so attacking the guy could well have killed him.
That's pathetic. If you're seriously arguing that it's okay for cops to fail to handle situations that they're trained to handle professionally, then why not just give a gun and a badge to any hick who wants to be a cop?Kmarion wrote:
This
"Boo hoo. It's physiological." Yes it is. That's what makes being a police officer such a difficult job, and that's why the officers who can't control it shouldn't be out on the streets. It's a pointless catch 22 to argue that cops have it so hard that it's okay for them to break the rules, as the hardest part of their jobs is to live by them.
Of course emotions and adrenalin are running high. Which makes their actions understandable. This is why they should not be brought up on assault charges. They are demonstrating they don't have what it takes to be a police officer though, they can't keep a cool head under pressure - which is very difficult, but if they can't do it, they shouldn't be in the job.Kmarion wrote:
This
Not all police buckle under this sort of pressure, just a minority (a worryingly substantial minority). It is possible to handle the pressure properly year in year out, and most of the police manage to do so just fine.
Its unacceptable yes. But, the guy did almost kill a fellow officer so I can see why they where so pissed. Police are very protective of each other as they watch each others ass on a day to day basis. Although they had 20mins to calm themselves. If the vid Kam posted was in real time id be 100% behind them as it would have been a reaction.
Being a police officer carries responsibility. One of those responsibilities is to keep your emotions in check. I don't think they should loose their jobs over it tho.
Being a police officer carries responsibility. One of those responsibilities is to keep your emotions in check. I don't think they should loose their jobs over it tho.
That'll learn him for using backsass.
My state was founded by Batman. Your opinion is invalid.
Hmm we also have technology, these Carjackers criminals will leave a ton of evidence at scenes of the crime and can get caught later. There are camera's everywhere.lowing wrote:
Gee I hope you have a lot of helicopters to cover all the criminals when that get wind of your proposal.cpt.fass1 wrote:
If you can get the situation resolved without endangering everyone then yes. Then you get them after wards. I didn't say let them ago, I said asses the situation and if putting one man behind bars is worth 10 people dieing then you're wrong.. It's not grand theft auto, you follow with a helicopter have the ground pursuit back off. He's got to stop sometime then you attempt an arrest.lowing wrote:
Better than letting him get away with it.
Would you let highjackers go and remain successful highjacking planes because you didn't want passengers hurt?
That same mentality prevailed with the Somali pirates, they went unchecked for so long that they were actually surprised when someone fought back.
Also when cars are stolen it's usually for money/parts, so handling things this way will put the people who are buying the cars out of business. I'm not opening up the papers and seeing "An other Chop Shop Shut Down".. You don't kill a salamander by cutting off it's tail?