13rin
Member
+977|6471
Military tribunals are back.

Where do you think the Gitmo II will be located?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01843.html

Post wrote:

The president's changes would improve military commissions, but Congress should play its part.

Sunday, May 17, 2009

IN ANNOUNCING Friday that he would continue to use military commissions to try some terrorism detainees, President Obama outlined several changes that the Defense Department would make immediately to strengthen the fairness of these tribunals. These changes are welcome, but the president must work with Congress to craft even more robust protections for defendants so that these once-discredited tribunals gain legitimacy in the eyes of the country and the world.

Going forward, Mr. Obama said, detainee statements obtained through cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment will no longer be admissible as evidence, and the government will now have to shoulder the burden of proving that hearsay evidence is reliable. Mr. Obama also ordered that detainees have more say in choosing their attorneys and that they not be penalized for refusing to testify at trial.

Other changes must be made. During the Bush administration, lawyers for detainees were permitted to view some classified information, but they were forbidden from discussing that evidence with their clients. This prohibition left the defense team in most circumstances unable to rebut the information or impugn the motives of the source. Mr. Obama and Congress should discuss ways in which defense lawyers may be given access to more information and a greater ability to confer with clients without compromising national security. They must also lay out a clear and predictable legal path for appealing adverse rulings or a conviction.
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The president should rely on the federal courts whenever possible. But he is prudent to leave open legal and legitimate venues for those cases that cannot be brought in U.S. courts. Reestablishing military commissions with extra safeguards for detainees allows the president to bring to justice some suspects whose cases would otherwise be unsuitable for civilian trials. The administration is smartly also discussing the possibility of calling for the creation of a national security court that would fill in what should be a narrow gap for those rare cases that cannot be processed even through military commissions. The president and Congress should work quickly to construct such a court to provide judicial oversight of cases in which there is sufficient, reliable intelligence to hold a foreign terrorism suspect in preventive detention, but not enough to bring a case in federal court.
*edit

ha.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2009-05-16 20:48:02)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6667|Canberra, AUS
Going forward, Mr. Obama said, detainee statements obtained through cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment will no longer be admissible as evidence, and the government will now have to shoulder the burden of proving that hearsay evidence is reliable. Mr. Obama also ordered that detainees have more say in choosing their attorneys and that they not be penalized for refusing to testify at trial.
Isn't that what he basically said he would do anyway?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6145|what

Hardly a vindication after all the changes he has made.

And what would you want him to do, not try anyone and let them all go? Detain everyone forever?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6754

Spark wrote:

Going forward, Mr. Obama said, detainee statements obtained through cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment will no longer be admissible as evidence, and the government will now have to shoulder the burden of proving that hearsay evidence is reliable. Mr. Obama also ordered that detainees have more say in choosing their attorneys and that they not be penalized for refusing to testify at trial.
Isn't that what he basically said he would do anyway?
not really.  he demonized the tribunals and used them to get claps from the sheep during his campaign.
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6483|Menlo Park, CA
Obama is completely "winging" his presidency thus far . . . . . . . 

In 100 days he has spent more money than ALL previous Presidents COMBINED! What he and his associates have done is create THE biggest increase in government EVER . . . .  scary stuff! I hope the Republicans can get their act togehter and get a candidate to challenge this fucking guy! The debt we are amassing as a result of Obama's direct policies is unreal. . . . unfucking real!! Shit is going to hit the fan!!!
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6708
Obama is a Pepsi commercial...  drink it up... feel good... be young... 
luckily the people are waking up to this empty suit... I agree that the Conservatives need to get their shit together... and they will...  Sanity must come back to Washington... on both sides of the aisle...
Love is the answer
JahManRed
wank
+646|6620|IRELAND

fadedsteve wrote:

In 100 days he has spent more money than ALL previous Presidents COMBINED!
I'd like to see facts to back that statement up. lol
Any money he is spending is to try and stabilise the global financial crises which happened right under GW Bush noes due to his government  generally allowing the banks to do what they wanted. But its all Obamas fault. 
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6303|South Jersey

JahManRed wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

In 100 days he has spent more money than ALL previous Presidents COMBINED!
I'd like to see facts to back that statement up. lol
Any money he is spending is to try and stabilise the global financial crises which happened right under GW Bush noes due to his government  generally allowing the banks to do what they wanted. But its all Obamas fault. 
You have got to be fucking kidding me. You know what, you are absolutely 100 percent correct. Dubya is the sole reason the world's economy is collapsing. Never mind the fact that crooked politicians have been here since before 1999...something tells me you dont get this shit....when will you people learn, democrats are not the answer, and neither are republicans. They both bat for the same team!!! We the people are who they are playing against you dimwits, we need someone not affiliated with all this bullshit to step in and clean the fuck up. This is why this stupid cycle will keep perpetuating itself, everyone keeps going back and forth between those 2 criminal political parties, as if we should have to choose column A or column B. WTF???!!! Can we please just try option C for once and go independent? PLZ? Just once, to see what its like? If they fuck up, kick his ass out and try out D. And so and so forth, just please no more dems or repubs.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6760
Bush doctrine vindicated by left.

The sooner people realise there is no left and right the sooner we can do something about it.
13rin
Member
+977|6471

BN wrote:

Bush doctrine vindicated by left.

The sooner people realise there is no left and right the sooner we can do something about it.
What? There is most certainly a right and a left.  Oh, Thanks Biden.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05 … latestnews
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6760

DBBrinson1 wrote:

What? There is most certainly a right and a left.
maybe, maybe not. My point is that no real change will happen with the current system. The people who control America will never let true change happen.

Its been the home of the VP since 1974...you would assume there would be a bunker of some sort...??
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6303|South Jersey
Yes BN, but the point of it being a secret bunker is just that, nobody should know that when the shit hits the fan, thats where the VP goes...you know, in case something were to happen to the POTUS, to preserve the next in line? Obviously people know theres a bunker of some sort, but the whole location thing? He obviously wouldnt be in the study in his estate on main street. You know im beginning to think this explanation is in vain...
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6698

JahManRed wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

In 100 days he has spent more money than ALL previous Presidents COMBINED!
I'd like to see facts to back that statement up. lol
Any money he is spending is to try and stabilise the global financial crises which happened right under GW Bush noes due to his government  generally allowing the banks to do what they wanted. But its all Obamas fault. 
You think Bush alone is more responsible than congress, which was controlled by Democrats?  I'd like to see how you explain that.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6175|Ireland
Democrats and Republicans are the same.  duh.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX
There is no vindication.
The process has been brought back into line with the normal procedures, not the half-arsed mockery under Bush/Cheney.

Also, its doubtful if the US would now be in this situation had someone with a brain been in charge.

So, no vindication, just Obama making a start clearing up Duhbya's mess.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Also, its doubtful if the US would now be in this situation had someone with a brain been in charge.
Doesn't matter who was in charge...the President doesn't control the economy.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

Doesn't matter who was in charge...the President doesn't control the economy.
No but he does control:
Fiscal policy - spending and taxation. Spending more than you receive in tax is never smart
Monetary policy - allowing financial organisations to loan more money than they have
Military policy - an expensive and pointless invasion of Iraq for example
Legal policy on detention and trial of foreign prisoners - the point of the OP

I watched a report on Bush's inept fiscal policy and how it has left the US with a colossal deficit and unbearable national debt.

Still confident he will be remembered as America's worst President in history
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
13rin
Member
+977|6471

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Doesn't matter who was in charge...the President doesn't control the economy.
No but he does control:
Fiscal policy - spending and taxation. Spending more than you receive in tax is never smart
Monetary policy - allowing financial organisations to loan more money than they have
Military policy - an expensive and pointless invasion of Iraq for example
Legal policy on detention and trial of foreign prisoners - the point of the OP

I watched a report on Bush's inept fiscal policy and how it has left the US with a colossal deficit and unbearable national debt.

Still confident he will be remembered as America's worst President in history
Fiscal Policy -O has fixed it how?  Buy INCREASING spending?
Monetary Policy -O has fixed it how?  Buy printing more money?  Hello inflation. (The lending thing was a Carter issue, not Bush)
Military policy -  Saddam had to go.  O does what?  He actually cut the military's budget (while we're at war)
Legal Policy-  Went right back to what Bush was doing.  He at one time chided the previous administration's policy only to duplicate it.  However the protestor's memory is akin of a gnat so O is in the clear.

Was that report by Miss Pelosi by chance?

When Bush is compared to Obama a decade from now Bush will look like Washington and Obama like Nixon.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX
Military policy -  Saddam had to go.
No he didn't.

Still haven't proved setting up proper military tribunals vindicates anything Duhbya did, its part of fixing the mess (applies to your other points above)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
13rin
Member
+977|6471

Dilbert_X wrote:

Military policy -  Saddam had to go.
No he didn't.

Still haven't proved setting up proper military tribunals vindicates anything Duhbya did, its part of fixing the mess (applies to your other points above)
Yes he did.

How have I not?  Obama chided the Bush administration stating that they could do it better.  They failed and are doing the same thing Bush did.

Blaming Bush for the massive spending bill is absurd.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Doesn't matter who was in charge...the President doesn't control the economy.
No but he does control:
Fiscal policy - spending and taxation. Spending more than you receive in tax is never smart
Monetary policy - allowing financial organisations to loan more money than they have
Military policy - an expensive and pointless invasion of Iraq for example
Legal policy on detention and trial of foreign prisoners - the point of the OP

I watched a report on Bush's inept fiscal policy and how it has left the US with a colossal deficit and unbearable national debt.

Still confident he will be remembered as America's worst President in history
Epic lack of understanding of how our government works.

Fiscal policy = President/Administration
Spending/taxation = Congress...who don't have to follow President's stated policies

Monetary policy = Fed, not President

Military policy is tied to spending/taxation by Congress. The military can only do what Congress has appropriated funds to do...see debate on cutting off funding for Iraq a few years back.

Legal policy. There's no such thing. Law is law. Policy is informed by law, not the other way around.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6641

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Military tribunals are back.

Where do you think the Gitmo II will be located?
Bagram.
13rin
Member
+977|6471

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

In 100 days he has spent more money than ALL previous Presidents COMBINED!
I'd like to see facts to back that statement up. lol
Any money he is spending is to try and stabilise the global financial crises which happened right under GW Bush noes due to his government  generally allowing the banks to do what they wanted. But its all Obamas fault. 
You think Bush alone is more responsible than congress, which was controlled by Democrats?  I'd like to see how you explain that.
They will do it for you:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-ge … uantanamo/
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

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