Brasso
member
+1,549|6619

I was able to draw a few parallels myself but I'm sure there's more.  What do you think?

Overall, very unorganized and badly thought out thoughts:

•    Aggressive previous policies and actions made it so that subsequent laws weren’t strict enough.
o    McCarthy’s baseless accusations set the stage for suspicion to run rampant
o    HUAC caused many Hollywood careers to be thrown away simply because actors joined the Communist party.
o    1903 – two American citizens are accused of Communist ties.  The evidence is flimsy and circumstantial.  They are electrocuted in 1953 on the charge of conspiracy to commit espionage.
o    Similarly, aggressive interrogation techniques (namely “waterboarding”) have been denounced because although effective, they are too harsh and inhumane.
•    On the other hand, McCarthyism actually had some merit.  This small merit raised the level of paranoia.
o    The Patriot Act infringes on the rights of U.S. citizens
o    As well as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
•    The Red Scare was mainly associated with the Cold War, in which many deaths occurred, but the official death count is 0.
o    Similarly, in the War on Terror, many unannounced deaths occur.
o    Many were persecuted and ostracized because they simply weren’t all for anti-communism.  The same happens with not being on board with the War on Terror.
o    The Red Scare turned into a witch hunt.  The War on Terror turned into an unofficial war on immigration.

Near the end I kind of just spat out my thoughts without much actual thinking, and I end up sounding like a conspiracy theorist.

Last edited by haffeysucks (2009-05-14 16:02:39)

"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6681
Good observations.
Perhaps it is possible that these trends are due to America having enemies on both occasions that were elusive and were difficult to act forcefully towards them head on.

The separate yet similar events may be the key to changing our approach to another situation of the sort in the future, but do people ever really learn?
Brasso
member
+1,549|6619

Superior Mind wrote:

Good observations.
Perhaps it is possible that these trends are due to America having enemies on both occasions that were elusive and were difficult to act forcefully towards them head on.

The separate yet similar events may be the key to changing our approach to another situation of the sort in the future, but do people ever really learn?
ooh, that's good.  both sides were scared about actually going to war with each other (mainly because of nuclear weaponization).  so both sides instead used espionage to carry out their "war."  now, you have enemy forces hiding up in the mountains and behind civilians and whatnot.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6681
Is this for a school project?

You should also consider the technique of assisting factions with a similar enemy as to not directly assault the enemy with your own forces.

US -> Mujadeen: Afghanistan '79
USSR -> NVA: Vietnam

The use of cells and fighters from across the Arab world to fight the Jihad might be a parallel.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2009-05-14 16:14:49)

Brasso
member
+1,549|6619

Superior Mind wrote:

Is this for a school project?
yeah, it's for a 4 page research paper (rough draft) that's due tomorrow. 

¯\(°_o)/¯  i should have started before.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6681

haffeysucks wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

Is this for a school project?
yeah, it's for a 4 page research paper (rough draft) that's due tomorrow. 

¯\(°_o)/¯  i should have started before.
Well, 4 pages is nothing. As for the research, just plan out your points as you have done then Google and wiki is your friend.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2009-05-14 16:15:51)

Brasso
member
+1,549|6619

Superior Mind wrote:

haffeysucks wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

Is this for a school project?
yeah, it's for a 4 page research paper (rough draft) that's due tomorrow. 

¯\(°_o)/¯  i should have started before.
Well, 4 pages is nothing. As for the research, just plan out your points as you have done then Google and wiki is your friend.
i always end up short on pages.  the most i've written is maybe 2.25 pages on a 2-3 page paper.  never written this much before.

outlines always help though, so we'll see how it goes.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Brasso
member
+1,549|6619

Superior Mind wrote:

You should also consider the technique of assisting factions with a similar enemy as to not directly assault the enemy with your own forces.

US -> Mujadeen: Afghanistan '79
USSR -> NVA: Vietnam
i like it a lot, but this paper really has to center around the red scare.  it's a little out of the time period.  i understand the Mujadeen example thanks to wiki, but not quite the NVA one.  care to explain?  i probably can't use it, but i'm still very interested.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6400|'Murka

haffeysucks wrote:

I was able to draw a few parallels myself but I'm sure there's more.  What do you think?

Overall, very unorganized and badly thought out thoughts:

o    The Patriot Act infringes on the rights of U.S. citizens
No. It doesn't.

o    As well as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
Actually, it protects the rights of US citizens. It is what requires a warrant to be issued for a US person to be surveilled.

•    The Red Scare was mainly associated with the Cold War, in which many deaths occurred, but the official death count is 0.
o    Similarly, in the War on Terror, many unannounced deaths occur.
Many unannounced deaths may occur, but the official death count is far from zero.

o    The Red Scare turned into a witch hunt.  The War on Terror turned into an unofficial war on immigration.
How so? It has done fuckall to our immigration laws, other than point out how porous our border actually is.

Comparing the WOT to the Cold War is interesting, but ultimately not much parallels. Now, comparing the anti-Communist movement and the anti-terrorism movement (at least the extremes) would be quite interesting, as there are quite a few parallels...as you have pointed out.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Brasso
member
+1,549|6619

i strongly do not believe that the patriot act infringes on the rights of US citizens.  i just threw that in the outline...

as for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, i just found that on wiki and threw that on there as well.  i haven't actually read up on it.

what about the death count then?  i can't seem to find any solid, official death count.

as for the immigration part, i'm sure i totally buy into it.  yes, i generalized completely - i was thinking of those damn US Customs officials who seem to be so happy to racially profile people.  (well, that's what everyone seems to say.  i myself never see or experience anything like that at the airports, and i fly a lot.)   maybe i didn't exactly have immigration in mind.

i kind of expanded both of them to include the anti-terrorist movement and the entire Cold War.

^^^
sorry if a lot of things up there don't make sense.  i know they don't make sense, i'm getting kinda tired now...
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6681

haffeysucks wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

You should also consider the technique of assisting factions with a similar enemy as to not directly assault the enemy with your own forces.

US -> Mujadeen: Afghanistan '79
USSR -> NVA: Vietnam
i like it a lot, but this paper really has to center around the red scare.  it's a little out of the time period.  i understand the Mujadeen example thanks to wiki, but not quite the NVA one.  care to explain?  i probably can't use it, but i'm still very interested.
American operatives supplied and trained the mujaheddin as to repel the invading Soviet forces. This was an example of a proxy war.
During the Vietnam War the USSR and China supplied the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) and the Vietcong to repel the invading American forces; another version of proxy war. The Vietnam war was part of an effort (in coalition with the Korean War) to prevent communist expansion in Europe. It all tied back to the Red Scare. If we weren't scared of Red we would have never spilledblood for it.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6617|IRELAND

Our Governments need something to "protect" us from. Or else we could wake up some day and say "what are these fucks actually doing for us?"

First it was the war on drugs.
Then the war on Communism.
Now its the war on terror. Which is great, because its a never ending war. Perfect for the people in government who need to use scare tactics to take away our civil liberties and put us under control. These people seek power and control and the WOT is a convenient excuse.

Lots of ppl don't see it. Yet they rant on about Lefty's and liberals. Yes the far left does exist and yes the far right does exist. The far right wants to dominate and control us just as the left wants us to live in some kind of unattainable utopia.
No one listens to the moderates.
One world Government is a reality which is coming in the next 100 years. EU + African Union + American Union + soon to be Asian Union= will some day be united into a one world government.

Only Hugo Chavez can save us all, ohhh noooos!
NantanCochise
Member
+55|5967|Portugal/United States

haffeysucks wrote:

i strongly do not believe that the patriot act infringes on the rights of US citizens.  i just threw that in the outline...

as for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, i just found that on wiki and threw that on there as well.  i haven't actually read up on it.

what about the death count then?  i can't seem to find any solid, official death count.

as for the immigration part, i'm sure i totally buy into it.  yes, i generalized completely - i was thinking of those damn US Customs officials who seem to be so happy to racially profile people.  (well, that's what everyone seems to say.  i myself never see or experience anything like that at the airports, and i fly a lot.)   maybe i didn't exactly have immigration in mind.

i kind of expanded both of them to include the anti-terrorist movement and the entire Cold War.

^^^
sorry if a lot of things up there don't make sense.  i know they don't make sense, i'm getting kinda tired now...
Than whatever you write about please dont go on about immigration, I think FEOS put it correctly. I understand racial profiling is nasty but there doesnt seem to be a better solution (so they say and Im no expert). Strict airport security in my eyes is good, no? Unless you are a terrorist. Yes, its annoying but recently I passed through 2 European airports and literally walked passed security, with the guards more concerned with thier piss up the night before and about what happened in the last Dr. House episode, while neglecting the monitor and their half assed use of magic wands.
Last week I attended a swearing in ceremony in DC. I can tell you a rough count of the origins of 115 new US citizens. 20 from Honduras, 30 from El Salvador, 50 from Ethiopia, 2 from Iran, 1 from Korea, 2 from Japan, 3 from Australia, 3 from the UK and 3 from Canada. The rest were mainly indiviuals from all over the world. Unusualy there were none from Mexico, but never-the-less I was surprised with a very diverse group of people. It kind of changed my persective on immigration in the US as opposed to the likes of Canada and Australia for example.

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