GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6840
from somewhere:


.........In a telephone briefing sponsored last week by the National Immigration Forum, the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez Jr., president of the National Hispanic Association of Evangelicals, warned that elected officials would pay a price for being on the wrong side of the legislative battle.

"We are talking to the politicians telling them that the Hispanic community will not forget," he said. "I know there are pure hearts that want to protect our border and protect our country, but at the same time the Hispanic community cannot deny the fact that many have taken advantage of an important and legitimate issue in order to manifest their racist and discriminatory spirit against the Hispanic community."
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6911|US
I think that anyone with a legal passport or visa should be allowed to stay.  Face it, immigrants will come legally or illegally, so why not make it easier to be legal?  Also, it would hinder trafficers (sp?) and help tighten security.

I think the anti-legislation protests are wrong.  It is not racist to try to tighten our boarder security.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2006-03-27 12:20:51)

arson
Member
+99|6833|New York

Erkut.hv wrote:

Hey all,

I was just curious what people think of the immigration laws in their native countries. Here where I live, it is out of control. You can't legislate anything to enforce laws, and you can't enforce existing laws without some group calling you a racist.

Read this article, and tell me the inmates aren't running the asylum inthe US:

ATLANTA -- Members of the Latino community plan to protest against new state legislation aimed at illegal immigrants in Georgia.

Protesters say they will neither spend money nor report to work Friday. An estimated 800,000 Hispanics are expected to take part in Georgia's "Day For Latino Dignity."

Organizers passed out flyers at businesses across the metro area Thursday, pushing other Hispanic workers to take part in the protest. At least 13 supermarkets, dozens of restaurants, and even banks will likely be affected by the work stoppage. Latino community leaders, some from out of state, decided on the idea at a Thursday night meeting.

The day is set aside to protest Senate Bill 529, sponsored by state Senator Chip Rogers (R-Woodstock). Senate Bill 529 would, in part, force state and local government contractors to verify the legal status of their employees.

Some employers have contacted Channel 2 Action News to say if their employees do not show up Friday, they may be out of a job.
I hope they all get fired.
Squig2510
Member
+0|6887

-=>cSc<=-*RunDje*cT| wrote:

Here in Holland, they check were the immigrants came from and if they really need to be here, if not and the home country is safe enough they will be send back. if not they can stay and need to make some test and speak dutch properly, past the test and they will get a pasport.

(maybe something is wrong, dont know it exactly how everthing works)
Define 'safe enough'. My class had to jump in to help one of our classmates, who lived here for years, not to be sent back to Afghanistan which, in his situation, would be potentially deadly. Providing the government lawyer did not dare to look behind him in case he saw an entire class was, in my oppinion, one of the things that saved my classmate. This system really sucks. It's okay if they check on the numerouse immigrants, but whats happening atm is exactly the thing none of us want; sending ppl back who lived here for years and always tried to mix-in.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6851|United States of America
I feel that the US should just invade Mexico and Cuba.  After a certain percent of a country's population invades your country illegally, it should be your right to pwn those countries for being general shit holes that nobody wants to live in.

Plan #2 involves transporting millions of Somolians to Mexico and Cuba and see how they are treated.  Then doing the same to the illegals in the USA.  Just think, we could end starvation and war in africa one country at a time.  Sally Stuthers would be so proud.

Plan #3 involves dipping Micheal Moore in honey and staking him to a fire ant hill.  Doesn't really accomplish anything to do with the topic, but would be fun to do.
^*AlphA*^
F*ckers
+3,135|6934|The Hague, Netherlands

Squig2510 wrote:

-=>cSc<=-*RunDje*cT| wrote:

Here in Holland, they check were the immigrants came from and if they really need to be here, if not and the home country is safe enough they will be send back. if not they can stay and need to make some test and speak dutch properly, past the test and they will get a pasport.

(maybe something is wrong, dont know it exactly how everthing works)
Define 'safe enough'. My class had to jump in to help one of our classmates, who lived here for years, not to be sent back to Afghanistan which, in his situation, would be potentially deadly. Providing the government lawyer did not dare to look behind him in case he saw an entire class was, in my oppinion, one of the things that saved my classmate. This system really sucks. It's okay if they check on the numerouse immigrants, but whats happening atm is exactly the thing none of us want; sending ppl back who lived here for years and always tried to mix-in.
i dont know how our coverment think with "Safe Enough" but didnt they wanted to send those gays back to afghanistan as well ?
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36eac2cb6af70a43508fd8d1c93d3201f4e23435.png
Yeticus Rex
Destroyer of Penguins
+29|6856|SoCal
As for Mexico, illegal immigration would be lessened or even stopped if the Mexican government and the oligopolies that are generally government run were broken down and privatized to increase capitalistic opportunities for the poor working class.  Vicente Fox loves the status quo because of the remittances that are sent back to Mexico from her citizens working abroad.  As the money comes in to families of these workers, they are spent on products that are owned by the oligopolies (in other words, the fat pig is just getting fatter) or the money is used to get the other family members out of Mexico.

IMHO, Mexico needs a revolution.....badly.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6931|California
Op/Ed piece from teh Washington post:

It is lucky America has more than two centuries of mostly calm experience with self-government. We are going to need to fall back on that invaluable patrimony if the immigration debate continues as it has started this season. The Senate is attempting to legislate into the teeth of the will of the American public. The Senate Judiciary Committeemen — and probably a majority of the Senate — are convinced that they know that the American people don't know what is best for them.
    National polling data could not be more emphatic — and has been so for decades. Gallup Poll (March 27) finds 80 percent of the public wants the federal government to get tougher on illegal immigration. A Quinnipiac University Poll (March 3) finds 62 percent oppose making it easier for illegals to become citizens (72 percent in that poll don't even want illegals to be permitted to have driver's licenses). Time Magazine's recent poll (Jan. 24-26) found 75 percent favor "major penalties" on employers of illegals, 70 percent believe illegals increase the likelihood of terrorism and 57 percent would use military force at the Mexican-American border.
    An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (March 10-13) found 59 percent opposing a guest-worker proposal, and 71 percent would more likely vote for a congressional candidate who would tighten immigration controls.
    An IQ Research poll (March 10) found 92 percent saying that securing the U.S. border should be a top priority of the White House and Congress.
    Yet, according to a National Journal survey of Congress, 73 percent of Republican and 77 percent of Democratic congressmen and senators say they would support guest-worker legislation.
    I commend to all those presumptuous senators and congressmen the sardonic and wise words of Edmund Burke in his 1792 letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe: "No man will assert seriously, that when people are of a turbulent spirit, the best way to keep them in order is to furnish them with something substantial to complain of." The senators should remember that they are American senators, not Roman proconsuls. Nor is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee some latter-day Praetor Maximus.
    But if they would be dictators, it would be nice if they could at least be wise (until such time as the people can electorally forcefully project with a violent pedal thrust their regrettable backsides out of town). It was gut-wrenching (which in my case is a substantial event) to watch the senators prattle on in their idle ignorance concerning the manifold economic benefits that will accrue to the body politic if we can just cram a few million more uneducated illegals into the country. ( I guess ignorance loves company.) Beyond the Senate last week, in a remarkable example of intellectual integrity (in the face of the editorial positions of their newspapers) the chief economic columnists for the New York Times and The Washington Post — Paul Krugman and Robert Samuelson, respectively — laid out the sad facts regarding the economics of the matter. Senators, congressmen and Mr. President, please take note.
    Regarding the Senate's and the president's guest-worker proposals, The Post's Robert Samuelson writes: "Gosh, they're all bad ideas ... We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking, many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate, many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished ... [It] is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico ... The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers ? Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits ... [Moreover], [i]t's a myth that the U.S. economy 'needs' more poor immigrants.
    "The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force." (For all Mr. Samuelson's supporting statistics, see his Washington Post column of March 22, from which this is taken.) Likewise, a few days later, the very liberal and often partisan Paul Krugman of the New York Times courageously wrote : "Unfortunately, low-skill immigrants don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of the [government] benefits they receive ? As the Swiss writer Max Frisch wrote about his own country's experience with immigration, 'We wanted a labor force, but human beings came.' " Mr. Krugman also observed — citing a leading Harvard study — "that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration. That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants 'do jobs that Americans will not do.' The willingness of Americans to do a job depends on how much that job pays — and the reason some jobs pay too little to attract native-born Americans is competition from poorly paid immigrants." Thusly do the two leading economic writers for the nation's two leading liberal newspapers summarily debunk the economic underpinning of the president's and the Senate's immigration proposals.
    Under such circumstances, advocates of guest-worker/amnesty bills will find it frustratingly hard to defend their arrogant plans by their preferred tactic of slandering those who disagree with them as racist, nativist and xenophobic.
    When the slandered ones include not only The Washington Post and the New York Times, but about 70 percent of the public, it is not only bad manners, but bad politics.
    The public demand to protect our borders will triumph sooner or later. And, the more brazen the opposing politicians, the sooner will come the triumph.
    So legislate on, you proud and foolish senators — and hasten your political demise.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6840
not denying that there is an urgent need for immigration reform, but look at my last post.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6931|California
I had a lengthy post, but said fuck it. Let everyone in, check nobody, give them everything they want.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6871|Canberra, AUS
I think illegal immigration should be defended against. I support my government's stance on the issue.

Why should some have to pay thousands to live in this country, while others hop on a boat and get governent assistance (as some are proposing)?

Perhaps we can let them in but make it more difficult for them to get citizenship.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6833|Westminster, California

Major_Spittle wrote:

I feel that the US should just invade Mexico and Cuba.  After a certain percent of a country's population invades your country illegally, it should be your right to pwn those countries for being general shit holes that nobody wants to live in.

Plan #2 involves transporting millions of Somolians to Mexico and Cuba and see how they are treated.  Then doing the same to the illegals in the USA.  Just think, we could end starvation and war in africa one country at a time.  Sally Stuthers would be so proud.

Plan #3 involves dipping Micheal Moore in honey and staking him to a fire ant hill.  Doesn't really accomplish anything to do with the topic, but would be fun to do.
I submit Major_Spittle as write in canidate for president, next election.
We need a clear thinking visionary like with to help us sharpen our bayonets and rid our nation of the invaders and the elected leaders who coddle them.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6871|Canberra, AUS

yerded wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

I feel that the US should just invade Mexico and Cuba.  After a certain percent of a country's population invades your country illegally, it should be your right to pwn those countries for being general shit holes that nobody wants to live in.

Plan #2 involves transporting millions of Somolians to Mexico and Cuba and see how they are treated.  Then doing the same to the illegals in the USA.  Just think, we could end starvation and war in africa one country at a time.  Sally Stuthers would be so proud.

Plan #3 involves dipping Micheal Moore in honey and staking him to a fire ant hill.  Doesn't really accomplish anything to do with the topic, but would be fun to do.
I submit Major_Spittle as write in canidate for president, next election.
We need a clear thinking visionary like with to help us sharpen our bayonets and rid our nation of the invaders and the elected leaders who coddle them.
Knowing him, I think this was meant as a joke.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7037|Cologne, Germany

It is only natural for people living in countries that give them no opportunities for economical and social improvement to leave that country and try to make a better living in some other place.

A lot of great-great-grandfathers of those calling themselves US citizens now did exactly that in the 19th century, going to America, hoping to have a better life. America is a classic immigration country.

Moreover, the west needs immigration. As it is now, western nations have incredibly low birth rates. If we want to keep up our social systems and our economies, we need immigrants to fill the spots that are going to be left open by a generation of young people who do not have children.

Of course, we would like to chose the immigrants that come to our countries. We want the well-educated ones who fit in easily, who pay taxes, who won't be a burden on our social systems.

The sad reality is though, that the majority of those who want to come, are the less educated, who mostly won't fit in well, and who will be a burden on our social systems.

Do we need immigration reform ? You bet we do. Do we need to prepare potential immigrants better so they have a chance to integrate successful into our society and culture ? Absolutely.

But at the same time, we must have the right to ask certain things from possible immigrants. The ability to speak our language, for example, and the will to respect our laws. I don't think that's asking too much.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6931|California

B.Schuss wrote:

It is only natural for people living in countries that give them no opportunities for economical and social improvement to leave that country and try to make a better living in some other place.

A lot of great-great-grandfathers of those calling themselves US citizens now did exactly that in the 19th century, going to America, hoping to have a better life. America is a classic immigration country.

Moreover, the west needs immigration. As it is now, western nations have incredibly low birth rates. If we want to keep up our social systems and our economies, we need immigrants to fill the spots that are going to be left open by a generation of young people who do not have children.

Of course, we would like to chose the immigrants that come to our countries. We want the well-educated ones who fit in easily, who pay taxes, who won't be a burden on our social systems.

The sad reality is though, that the majority of those who want to come, are the less educated, who mostly won't fit in well, and who will be a burden on our social systems.

Do we need immigration reform ? You bet we do. Do we need to prepare potential immigrants better so they have a chance to integrate successful into our society and culture ? Absolutely.

But at the same time, we must have the right to ask certain things from possible immigrants. The ability to speak our language, for example, and the will to respect our laws. I don't think that's asking too much.
Schuss, you would SO be called a racist if you were in America saying that. Check out this article, time to start prepping for the civil war.... lol.

----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3758105.html

Opinions split over red, white and green
Mexican flags divisive topic as principal shows his support for student protests

By JENNIFER RADCLIFFE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Reagan High School Principal Robert Pambello was ordered to remove a Mexican flag Wednesday morning that he had hoisted below the U.S. and Texas flags that typically fly in front of his school — a symbol he agreed to fly to show support for his predominantly Hispanic student body.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6840
fucking racism
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6931|California

Erkut.hv wrote:

I had a lengthy post, but said fuck it. Let everyone in, check nobody, give them everything they want.
I reiterate my statement. I don't care any more, but I do like posting various articles to get peoples thoughts on the subject.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6840
my thoughts are:  the majority of people who support all this immigration reform, may or or may not realize the amount of racism that is spewing from their mind.  Like i said, yes, it is a legitimate issue, but most people who support just plain dont like hispanics....think about it man.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6847|USA

Erkut.hv wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

It is only natural for people living in countries that give them no opportunities for economical and social improvement to leave that country and try to make a better living in some other place.

A lot of great-great-grandfathers of those calling themselves US citizens now did exactly that in the 19th century, going to America, hoping to have a better life. America is a classic immigration country.

Moreover, the west needs immigration. As it is now, western nations have incredibly low birth rates. If we want to keep up our social systems and our economies, we need immigrants to fill the spots that are going to be left open by a generation of young people who do not have children.

Of course, we would like to chose the immigrants that come to our countries. We want the well-educated ones who fit in easily, who pay taxes, who won't be a burden on our social systems.

The sad reality is though, that the majority of those who want to come, are the less educated, who mostly won't fit in well, and who will be a burden on our social systems.

Do we need immigration reform ? You bet we do. Do we need to prepare potential immigrants better so they have a chance to integrate successful into our society and culture ? Absolutely.

But at the same time, we must have the right to ask certain things from possible immigrants. The ability to speak our language, for example, and the will to respect our laws. I don't think that's asking too much.
Schuss, you would SO be called a racist if you were in America saying that. Check out this article, time to start prepping for the civil war.... lol.

----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3758105.html

Opinions split over red, white and green
Mexican flags divisive topic as principal shows his support for student protests

By JENNIFER RADCLIFFE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Reagan High School Principal Robert Pambello was ordered to remove a Mexican flag Wednesday morning that he had hoisted below the U.S. and Texas flags that typically fly in front of his school — a symbol he agreed to fly to show support for his predominantly Hispanic student body.
Yes I love this as well...............no better way to show your desire to become and American (even if you want to do it illegally, so you don't have to support our country like the rest of us) by waving a foreign flag on our soil.......the hypocrasy of all of this bullshit is staggering.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6847|USA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

my thoughts are:  the majority of people who support all this immigration reform, may or or may not realize the amount of racism that is spewing from their mind.  Like i said, yes, it is a legitimate issue, but most people who support just plain dont like hispanics....think about it man.
not true.........they just SO happen to be hispanic..................the problem is..........they want to be here illegally and reap all of the opportunity America has to offer but give nothing back..........see also..liberal

the feelings would be the same no matter what race of people tried to pull this shit

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-30 07:41:25)

Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6931|California
You have to quit throwing out liberal so.... well.... liberally.

This isn't a left vs right issue. Republicans themselves are split on the issue.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6847|USA

Erkut.hv wrote:

You have to quit throwing out liberal so.... well.... liberally.

This isn't a left vs right issue. Republicans themselves are split on the issue.
ok I recant the liberal reference.......do you agree with the rest of it though??

but I haven't dug very deep into this so my question is this...............are the republicans split on the problem or the solution??.......In my statement I addressed the problem

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-30 08:04:34)

Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6932|Salt Lake City

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

my thoughts are:  the majority of people who support all this immigration reform, may or or may not realize the amount of racism that is spewing from their mind.  Like i said, yes, it is a legitimate issue, but most people who support just plain dont like hispanics....think about it man.
It has nothing to do with the fact that they are Mexican, it just so happens that Mexicans make up the majority of the illegals.  This needs to be enforced against Cuban, Chinese, and any other illegals that are making their way to this country.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6840

lowing wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

my thoughts are:  the majority of people who support all this immigration reform, may or or may not realize the amount of racism that is spewing from their mind.  Like i said, yes, it is a legitimate issue, but most people who support just plain dont like hispanics....think about it man.
not true.........they just SO happen to be hispanic..................the problem is..........they want to be here illegally and reap all of the opportunity America has to offer but give nothing back..........see also..liberal

the feelings would be the same no matter what race of people tried to pull this shit
Im not disagreeing with you, maybe I should explain why I feel this way.  One of the first times I ever encountered racism was when I was 10 years when a grown adult couple told me to go back to my country.  I was born in florida.  My mother was in this country (legally, i might add) for nearly 40 years before she recieved her citizenship, my father was nicaraguan and was a member of the US back somoza regime before the communists took over and he had to flee to the united states (he recieved assylum) or face execution.  My entire family is either here as immigrants or in other countries.  My cousins and I are the first born american generation. I am from los angeles and I know a few illegals, friends and aquaintances.  My problem I have with this issue is that the majority of illegals that I know, know nothing about being in another country.  Their memories are only that of the united states.  But the even bigger issue I have is that some of them have no intention of becoming citizens and THAT right there is what pisses me off, they just plan to work here for a few years and go back to mexico and then come back here when things get boring in mexico.  I totally disagree with that.  But at the same time most the illegals I know work, maintain families and are contributing members of society who obey the laws and are just trying to better themselves.  The one thing I noticed about all this anti-immigrant shit is the enormous amount of use for the word "they" or "them".  Im sorry, but being somebody who has been the victim of racism beofre, that sounds like the begining of a very scary anti-hispanic sentiment.  Dont worry about illegals, dont try to blame a whole segment of society for the the immediate problems you face,  just switch the "U.S" with the 3rd reich and "undocumented aliens"  with jews and the todays year with 1933 and you get a very similar situation that seems to be in the process of being created.  Im not saying if you support the anti-immigration movement, your racist.  But I am very certain that the majority of people who do, are and may not even realize it.  I guess it boils down to this, if you think illegal immigrants are any different than you, you are part of the problem and not the solution.  Dont blame the illegals for wanting a better life for themselves
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6847|USA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

lowing wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

my thoughts are:  the majority of people who support all this immigration reform, may or or may not realize the amount of racism that is spewing from their mind.  Like i said, yes, it is a legitimate issue, but most people who support just plain dont like hispanics....think about it man.
not true.........they just SO happen to be hispanic..................the problem is..........they want to be here illegally and reap all of the opportunity America has to offer but give nothing back..........see also..liberal

the feelings would be the same no matter what race of people tried to pull this shit
Im not disagreeing with you, maybe I should explain why I feel this way.  One of the first times I ever encountered racism was when I was 10 years when a grown adult couple told me to go back to my country.  I was born in florida.  My mother was in this country (legally, i might add) for nearly 40 years before she recieved her citizenship, my father was nicaraguan and was a member of the US back somoza regime before the communists took over and he had to flee to the united states (he recieved assylum) or face execution.  My entire family is either here as immigrants or in other countries.  My cousins and I are the first born american generation. I am from los angeles and I know a few illegals, friends and aquaintances.  My problem I have with this issue is that the majority of illegals that I know, know nothing about being in another country.  Their memories are only that of the united states.  But the even bigger issue I have is that some of them have no intention of becoming citizens and THAT right there is what pisses me off, they just plan to work here for a few years and go back to mexico and then come back here when things get boring in mexico.  I totally disagree with that.  But at the same time most the illegals I know work, maintain families and are contributing members of society who obey the laws and are just trying to better themselves.  The one thing I noticed about all this anti-immigrant shit is the enormous amount of use for the word "they" or "them".  Im sorry, but being somebody who has been the victim of racism beofre, that sounds like the begining of a very scary anti-hispanic sentiment.  Dont worry about illegals, dont try to blame a whole segment of society for the the immediate problems you face,  just switch the "U.S" with the 3rd reich and "undocumented aliens"  with jews and the todays year with 1933 and you get a very similar situation that seems to be in the process of being created.  Im not saying if you support the anti-immigration movement, your racist.  But I am very certain that the majority of people who do, are and may not even realize it.  I guess it boils down to this, if you think illegal immigrants are any different than you, you are part of the problem and not the solution.  Dont blame the illegals for wanting a better life for themselves
America was built on immagration, everyone of them wanting a better life for themselves and their families.....No one is saying that is wrong.and I mean nobody....all we/I are saying is hey if you want to live here and take part in the rewards of being in America.......become an American or be here legally.....this is not a race issue.......But playing the race card is a cheap and easy way to try and score points........tell me what it is about the legal and free protests in our streets granted to all Americans, by illegals, to protest their AMERICAN RIGHTS to live here illegally........all while waving mexican flags, that you don't find ironic?........this is complete bullshit.........truth is they are illegal and have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

If you want Constitutional rights in America.then pay for them like the rest of us.

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-30 08:25:52)

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