Biden wants to make higher ed more affordable

2009-04-17 17:31:19

#1

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7018

Is this guy the biggest retard ever...lol?
They are spending a 130 million dolars on a new Fairfax County school headquarters...
and this is while schools have trailers parked outside of schools for classes...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ … htm?csp=34

and this sad situation... No more DC school vouchers... snuffing out the dreams of 1700 plus motivated poor kids to help them achieve a brighter future...
http://joannejacobs.com/2009/04/11/kill … her-hopes/

If the govt cant have their hand in it to control it and make it expensive and inneficient... then they think its bad and will crush it...

Sorry young... poor students... have fun at your more expensive public school with low percentage reading comprehension and math skills...

“Because Democrats in Congress have voted to rescind funding for this program after next school year (despite the fact that a recent evaluation shows it to be a success, a rarity for federal initiatives), we have unilaterally decided to rescind your child’s scholarship effective immediately.”

"It’s not too late for President Obama to step in. Send the Seals!"

http://www.heritage.org/research/education/cda99-08.cfm

Major Findings
•The typical, or average,7 African-American eighth-grader in a D.C. Catholic school performs better in math than 72 percent of his or her public school peers.

•Both fourth- and eighth-grade Catholic school students outperform their public school peers in math achievement. However, the percent difference widens between the fourth and eighth grades. Catholic school students in fourth grade scored 6.5 percent higher, compared with a 8.2 percent higher score for eighth graders, than their public school counterparts. (See Charts 1 and 2.)

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-04-17 17:34:08)

Love is the answer

2009-04-17 18:11:59

#2

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6296|Truthistan

One problem with these statistics is that they don't take into account the motivation and support of the parents

If a parent is motivated and supportive enough to get their kid into a private school, then they are also probably taking good care of the kid as far as feeding and caring for the kid, and making sure the kid does their homework etc etc.

Where the opposite would be true to crack heads and others who don't care at all and send their kids to the public school simply because the kids are mandated by law to go to school. by default these kids are in the public system and their lack of support at home would drag down the statistical grade point averages.

Short story, are private schools better? or are the statistics capturing the fact that kids who go to private schools have more supportive parents? IMO its the later.

2009-04-17 19:37:38

#3

S.Lythberg: Mastermind; +429|6749|Chicago, IL

Diesel_dyk wrote:
One problem with these statistics is that they don't take into account the motivation and support of the parents

If a parent is motivated and supportive enough to get their kid into a private school, then they are also probably taking good care of the kid as far as feeding and caring for the kid, and making sure the kid does their homework etc etc.

Where the opposite would be true to crack heads and others who don't care at all and send their kids to the public school simply because the kids are mandated by law to go to school. by default these kids are in the public system and their lack of support at home would drag down the statistical grade point averages.

Short story, are private schools better? or are the statistics capturing the fact that kids who go to private schools have more supportive parents? IMO its the later.

QFT

I know several teachers outside of the classroom, and they'll all agree that parental support is crucial in a students success.

2009-04-17 21:04:56

#4

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6713|'Murka

I'm guessing that explains why DC gets more per capita for education than just about anywhere else yet has some of the worst schools.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-04-17 21:48:00

#5

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7018

Sounds like more money is the answer...lol

Love is the answer

2009-04-17 21:50:02

#6

Man With No Name: جندي; +148|5877|The Wild West

Lol!

2009-04-18 10:55:41

#7

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

Diesel_dyk wrote:
One problem with these statistics is that they don't take into account the motivation and support of the parents

If a parent is motivated and supportive enough to get their kid into a private school, then they are also probably taking good care of the kid as far as feeding and caring for the kid, and making sure the kid does their homework etc etc.

Where the opposite would be true to crack heads and others who don't care at all and send their kids to the public school simply because the kids are mandated by law to go to school. by default these kids are in the public system and their lack of support at home would drag down the statistical grade point averages.

Short story, are private schools better? or are the statistics capturing the fact that kids who go to private schools have more supportive parents? IMO its the later.

If nothing else, this is a great argument against truancy laws. Poor kids with delinquent parents hold back schools, so their attendance should be optional.

No one should be forced to go to school who doesn't want to go (if the kid is 15 or older). They can work retail or fast food if they want to skip class -- because we'll always need cheap labor.

2009-04-18 17:43:43

#8

BN: smells like wee wee; +159|7070

"Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. Schools should be palaces. Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." - Sam Seaborn

2009-04-18 18:22:15

#9

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

BN wrote:
"Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. Schools should be palaces. Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." - Sam Seaborn

Ha... I like that. It will never happen in this country, but I think Norway has kind of taken that approach.

2009-04-18 18:27:32

#10

BN: smells like wee wee; +159|7070

Turquoise wrote:
BN wrote:
"Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. Schools should be palaces. Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." - Sam Seaborn
Ha... I like that. It will never happen in this country, but I think Norway has kind of taken that approach.

Its a great dream. In my opinion poverty, crime, destitution all start with lack of education.

2009-04-18 18:28:11

#11

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

BN wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
BN wrote:
"Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. Schools should be palaces. Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." - Sam Seaborn
Ha... I like that. It will never happen in this country, but I think Norway has kind of taken that approach.
Its a great dream. In my opinion poverty, crime, destitution all start with lack of education.

For the most part... There are other factors, but education is one of the biggest ones.

2009-04-18 18:51:16

#12

BN: smells like wee wee; +159|7070

Turquoise wrote:
BN wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

Ha... I like that. It will never happen in this country, but I think Norway has kind of taken that approach.
Its a great dream. In my opinion poverty, crime, destitution all start with lack of education.
For the most part... There are other factors, but education is one of the biggest ones.

My view was quite simplistic but think if you educate your population you get so many benefits.

Better industries, foreign investment, high tech investment, research industries, better jobs, etc, etc

2009-04-18 18:53:09

#13

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6770

Knowledge is power.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Power is money

2009-04-18 18:56:31

#14

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6951

Good fucking luck to him. I'd love to do my Masters in the States, so if he can sort it out in the next year or so that'd be great.

Not fucking likely though.

2009-04-18 19:03:57

#15

BN: smells like wee wee; +159|7070

ghettoperson wrote:
Good fucking luck to him. I'd love to do my Masters in the States, so if he can sort it out in the next year or so that'd be great.

Not fucking likely though.

What is the cost of a degree in the US? Roughly of course.

2009-04-18 19:06:35

#16

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6951

I believe it to be somewhere around a metric fucktonne in gold bars.

2009-04-18 19:45:25

#17

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6713|'Murka

BN wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
BN wrote:
"Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes. We need gigantic revolutionary changes. Schools should be palaces. Competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be getting six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge for its citizens, just like national defense." - Sam Seaborn
Ha... I like that. It will never happen in this country, but I think Norway has kind of taken that approach.
Its a great dream. In my opinion poverty, crime, destitution all start with lack of education.

I'd say lack of quality education. That's the problem.

We need an overhaul of what's taught and how it's taught. The pussification of America started in the schools in the 60s-70s and is reflected in teachers teaching to the test instead of the topic. Nobody is allowed to fail because it would wound their inner child. Nobody can be critiqued because it would hurt their feelings. It's asinine and it's rotting our country from the inside out.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-04-18 19:46:04

#18

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

BN wrote:
ghettoperson wrote:
Good fucking luck to him. I'd love to do my Masters in the States, so if he can sort it out in the next year or so that'd be great.

Not fucking likely though.
What is the cost of a degree in the US? Roughly of course.

That varies widely depending on the school and state.

When it comes to public colleges, some states have out-of-state tuition that is cheaper than other states' in-state tuition.

As a general rule, states in the South and lower Midwest (like Arkansas and Texas) have cheaper tuition than in the Northeast, upper Midwest, and West Coast.

2009-04-18 19:48:33

#19

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:
BN wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

Ha... I like that. It will never happen in this country, but I think Norway has kind of taken that approach.
Its a great dream. In my opinion poverty, crime, destitution all start with lack of education.
I'd say lack of quality education. That's the problem.

We need an overhaul of what's taught and how it's taught. The pussification of America started in the schools in the 60s-70s and is reflected in teachers teaching to the test instead of the topic. Nobody is allowed to fail because it would wound their inner child. Nobody can be critiqued because it would hurt their feelings. It's asinine and it's rotting our country from the inside out.

I'd argue the best course of action is to replicate Germany's two-tier system. Starting at around 8th grade, we need to separate technical students and academic students. In effect, this would play to each group's natural talents rather than treating education as one-size-fits-all.

2009-04-18 19:50:37

#20

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5845|Toronto

ghettoperson wrote:
I believe it to be somewhere around a metric fucktonne in gold bars.

Around 25k a year for the state schools and 40-50k for ivy. In Canada it is slightly less at ~15-20k a year. More for internationals (no government aid = ~25k/year).

Last edited by Pochsy (2009-04-18 19:53:25)

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2009-04-18 20:01:28

#21

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6713|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:
FEOS wrote:
BN wrote:

Its a great dream. In my opinion poverty, crime, destitution all start with lack of education.
I'd say lack of quality education. That's the problem.

We need an overhaul of what's taught and how it's taught. The pussification of America started in the schools in the 60s-70s and is reflected in teachers teaching to the test instead of the topic. Nobody is allowed to fail because it would wound their inner child. Nobody can be critiqued because it would hurt their feelings. It's asinine and it's rotting our country from the inside out.
I'd argue the best course of action is to replicate Germany's two-tier system. Starting at around 8th grade, we need to separate technical students and academic students. In effect, this would play to each group's natural talents rather than treating education as one-size-fits-all.

We used to do that with votech options at high schools. But you don't really see that too much any more.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-04-18 20:04:41

#22

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
FEOS wrote:

I'd say lack of quality education. That's the problem.

We need an overhaul of what's taught and how it's taught. The pussification of America started in the schools in the 60s-70s and is reflected in teachers teaching to the test instead of the topic. Nobody is allowed to fail because it would wound their inner child. Nobody can be critiqued because it would hurt their feelings. It's asinine and it's rotting our country from the inside out.
I'd argue the best course of action is to replicate Germany's two-tier system. Starting at around 8th grade, we need to separate technical students and academic students. In effect, this would play to each group's natural talents rather than treating education as one-size-fits-all.
We used to do that with votech options at high schools. But you don't really see that too much any more.

True. Unfortunately, there seems to be an Ivory Tower mentality in a lot of educational leadership. We'd rather focus more on arts and English than on phys. ed., tech skills, economics, and civics.

2009-04-18 20:12:35

#23

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5845|Toronto

Turquoise wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

I'd argue the best course of action is to replicate Germany's two-tier system. Starting at around 8th grade, we need to separate technical students and academic students. In effect, this would play to each group's natural talents rather than treating education as one-size-fits-all.
We used to do that with votech options at high schools. But you don't really see that too much any more.
True. Unfortunately, there seems to be an Ivory Tower mentality in a lot of educational leadership. We'd rather focus more on arts and English than on phys. ed., tech skills, economics, and civics.

Ontario uses a 3 tier system to deal with these issues; workplace which trains for specific (blue-collar) jobs, college level which directs people to more hands on post-secondary jobs and institutions (nursing school and the like), and academic level which is all of the serious students planning to go to university. The highest tier actually gets the least funding because they know the students will be able to adapt with fewer (often frivolous) resources. The system works very well, the schools have excellent student retention rates. Or at least I think they are satisfactory.

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2009-04-18 20:13:49

#24

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6707|North Carolina

Pochsy wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
FEOS wrote:

We used to do that with votech options at high schools. But you don't really see that too much any more.
True. Unfortunately, there seems to be an Ivory Tower mentality in a lot of educational leadership. We'd rather focus more on arts and English than on phys. ed., tech skills, economics, and civics.
Ontario uses a 3 tier system to deal with these issues; workplace which trains for specific (blue-collar) jobs, college level which directs people to more hands on post-secondary jobs and institutions (nursing school and the like), and academic level which is all of the serious students planning to go to university. The highest tier actually gets the least funding because they know the students will be able to adapt with fewer (often frivolous) resources. The system works very well, the schools have excellent student retention rates. Or at least I think they are satisfactory.

Very nice.. It sounds like we could use you guys as a good role model for education...

2009-04-18 20:18:45

#25

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6713|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

I'd argue the best course of action is to replicate Germany's two-tier system. Starting at around 8th grade, we need to separate technical students and academic students. In effect, this would play to each group's natural talents rather than treating education as one-size-fits-all.
We used to do that with votech options at high schools. But you don't really see that too much any more.
True. Unfortunately, there seems to be an Ivory Tower mentality in a lot of educational leadership. We'd rather focus more on arts and English than on phys. ed., tech skills, economics, and civics.

That would be a big part of the "what is taught" that needs significant reform. But the NEA is to US education what the UAW is to the US automotive industry.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

BF2S Forums Biden wants to make higher ed more affordable

Diesel_dyk wrote:

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