BF2S Forums for you catholics,jews w/e if u believe in god read this

Science is contiually evolving (don't read into that too much).  At first Democrites (sp?)  thought the "atomos" was the smallest possible piece of matter.  Then came Thompson and the electron.  Now, there are quarks and possibly smaller particles.  Science has been proven wrong or partially incorrect many times.  I am not suggesting that we discount science, but not many things have been "proven" yet.  Scientists only have many theories that hold up under most situations...like Newtonian physics...

Back to religion...From what Christianity teaches, God created mankind to be in community with us.  I would compare it to a parental/child relationship.

mmmm your words make much sense

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060325/ap_ … ient_skull

Another step closer .....

herrr_smity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

well yes

Then wouldn't its location in relation to the universe be just as important?

again not a law of nature

So stellar cartography is unimportant to science and the understanding of the natural universe?

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-03-26 06:18:00)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Then wouldn't its location in relation to the universe be just as important?

again not a law of nature

So stellar cartography is unimportant to science and the understanding of the natural universe?

I'm not saying that its unimportant, but you said that natural laws have been disprove.

herrr_smity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

again not a law of nature

So stellar cartography is unimportant to science and the understanding of the natural universe?

I'm not saying that its unimportant, but you said that natural laws have been disprove.

What? No, I said that theories can been disproven. Just because it's written in a dusty old scientific text doesn't make it any less infallible than storybooks. People wouldn't be doing their duty as scientists unless they doubted everything. Maybe you think you know how something works, but maybe it only appears to work that way. Or maybe, on another level, a completely different aspect of physics is in play causing an object to act the way it does.

As far as I know, people still can breath if they're in a vessel travelling faster than the speed of sound. That idea was mocked before...

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Actually, universities are quite liberal and most liberals don't believe in God

Give me a break. According to the last estimate I heard 85% of Americans believe in God. At most, 50% of the American population is liberal, but that is a very 'liberal' estimate if you'll excuse the pun (as not everyone that votes democratic is liberal). Do that math on that, and 70% of liberals believe in God, and that's if every single republican in the country believes in God.

Belief in God has nothing to do with political affiliation, though I will admit more republicans are religious than are Democrats.

Hmmm... did you know that 73.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.  Nice statistics but they do not relate to what I said.

Read it again, "universities are quite liberal and most liberals don't believe in God."  Show me a bleeding heart that believes in the Christian God. 

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

So, I would imagine that if we have atheists working at a university then their research would be biased too.  You tend to lean on your beliefs when living your life and similar to what you said, non believers in God would try to prove their beliefs too.

Personal experience tells me that people are much more likely to bend reality to accomodate a belief in God than they are to do the opposite. I would point at those Christians that still believe in the Bible as an absolute truth, despite the glaring logical and scientific flaws inherent in most of the old testament.

Again, that point of view is relative.  Now, point out the "glaring logical and scientific flaws."  Like, the fact that the law of thermodynamics is all about a closed system.  Hmmmm... I think science has proven that the universe is not a closed system.

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

On the fish surviving, couldn't enough rainwater dilute the salinity of the seas?  Or at least make it bearable for a few weeks?

And the saltwater fish surviving this change in salinity? and the lack of any measurable salt content in almost every inland body of water? And fitting every species on Earth onto a relatively small boat? and repopulating the entire Earth's worth of species from 2 of each animal (not to mention the genetic problems inherent in breeding an entire population from two individuals). And the millions of plant species surviving the flood (did Noah bring those along as well? Did he remember the single celled organisms too? And viruses?) And... well, I could go on for quite some time, but I doubt it would change your mind in the least. Religion trumps reason I suppose.

I was thinking the same thing about science.  "The world is flat."  And speaking of closed minds...

Skruples wrote:

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB … mp;id=3122
This article deals with the second law of thermodynamics issue, which I have already addressed in a very shallow form. And as I mentioned previously using thermodynamics to disprove evolution is a very weak argument.

Try a closed system.

Skruples wrote:

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB … mp;id=2911
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB … mp;id=2632
These have more to do with the teaching of intelligent design in schools. While it is true that evolutionary theory has not been proved, it has much more evidence to support it than does intelligent design. Furthermore intelligent design is predicated on a belief in God or some other supernatural entity, and as such I would argue its not suitable for public schools. If Intelligent Design had nothing to do with God my opinion, (and probably that of much of the scientific community as well) would be quite different.

Skruples wrote:

If you can find a university (one that is not religious I might add) or reputable scientific organization (such as the discovery institute) to back up these theories then I would be a little more convinced.

Do you need to rewrite that too?

fuck this i am joining the church of Scientology.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

fuck this i am joining the church of Scientology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSj9gc36 … cientology

he he he

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Hmmm... did you know that 73.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.  Nice statistics but they do not relate to what I said.

If you'd like a source for my numbers, here you go:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris … sp?PID=408
Or heres one from fox news:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99945,00.html
Or the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/w … 518375.stm
Or religioustolerance.org, though these numbers may be inflated.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_poll3.htm

As you can see, belief in God runs pretty high. So I would ask you, are a college education and a belief in God mutually exclusive?

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Read it again, "universities are quite liberal and most liberals don't believe in God."  Show me a bleeding heart that believes in the Christian God.

Bleeding hearts eh? I think I'm wasting my time arguing with you. Yet I persist.

What are you defining as 'liberal'? My mother is both liberal and Christian. Much of my family is religious, and my Uncle is a Protestant pastor. Are they all conservative by virtue of believing in God? Or is it perhaps not as black and white as you'd like to believe?

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Again, that point of view is relative.  Now, point out the "glaring logical and scientific flaws."

I'd say anything from the book of Genesis is almost certainly not true, and can be proven as such. That or God has a wicked sense of humor. The logical flaws with a global flood that I pointed out earlier are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to scientific incongruities in the Bible. Furthermore, if you believe in the Bible as a literal account of what happened a couple thousand years ago, I think you're in serious need of a reality check.

As someone else mentioned, the Bible is more about meaning and faith than it is about cold hard facts.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Like, the fact that the law of thermodynamics is all about a closed system.  Hmmmm... I think science has proven that the universe is not a closed system.

Thank you for proving my point. Thermodynamics does not apply to evolution because its not a closed system.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Try a closed system.

Such as? The solar system is a relatively closed system, but has a very high level of energy (mostly stored in the sun). Life on Earth gets all of its energy from the sun (look up trophic food structures if you're confused on this point). So where exactly does this closed system come into play?

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

I was thinking the same thing about science.  "The world is flat."  And speaking of closed minds...

'The world is flat' was based on experience, not science. I don't think you'd argue that todays scientists are wrong about the world being round, as they have mountains of evidence to support it.

As for closed minds... hmmm

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Show me a bleeding heart that believes in the Christian God

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

most liberals don't believe in God.

If you're trying to imply that my mind is closed, I would disagree with you. I am an agnostic, I have never said that God did not exist, (and if I did, somewhere, then I made an error). I said that God most likely does not exist, based simply on the utter lack of evidence supporting His existence. However, there is also absolutely no evidence to disprove His existence, so I'm in the middle.

I do, however, believe that the Bible is not factual. That is based on all the best scientific evidence and research of the modern age, and if you refuse to consider that evidence then you, sir, are the one that is close minded.

Spark wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Spark wrote:

2. This is paradoxical. He said 'I'll never kill everthing again' and then, not long afterward, gives a revalation to John. And surprise! He kills everything.

Hmmm.  Would you care to point out where God said, "I'll never kill everthing again."

Genesis Chapter 9.

You mean this, "Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."?

'Everything' is an absolute.  Thus you misquoted God.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Hmmm... did you know that 73.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot.  Nice statistics but they do not relate to what I said.

If you'd like a source for my numbers, here you go:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris … sp?PID=408
Or heres one from fox news:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99945,00.html
Or the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/w … 518375.stm
Or religioustolerance.org, though these numbers may be inflated.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_poll3.htm

As you can see, belief in God runs pretty high. So I would ask you, are a college education and a belief in God mutually exclusive?

It would be nice if you actually read the links I posted and understood what I said. 

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/gov/2002/pd090502c.html

Never did I equate universites to a college education.  If you read the link you would have seen that I was referring to the faculty.

"A recent survey issued by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture and the American Enterprise Institute reveals that the overwhelming majority of college professors are registered Democrats"
"More that 90 percent of professors who work in the arts and sciences departments at leading colleges and universities belong to either Democrat, Green or Working Class parties"

But I guess facts don't mean much to one who already has his mind made.

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Read it again, "universities are quite liberal and most liberals don't believe in God."  Show me a bleeding heart that believes in the Christian God.

Bleeding hearts eh? I think I'm wasting my time arguing with you. Yet I persist.

What are you defining as 'liberal'? My mother is both liberal and Christian. Much of my family is religious, and my Uncle is a Protestant pastor. Are they all conservative by virtue of believing in God? Or is it perhaps not as black and white as you'd like to believe?

MT 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

You make the call.

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Again, that point of view is relative.  Now, point out the "glaring logical and scientific flaws."

I'd say anything from the book of Genesis is almost certainly not true, and can be proven as such. That or God has a wicked sense of humor. The logical flaws with a global flood that I pointed out earlier are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to scientific incongruities in the Bible. Furthermore, if you believe in the Bible as a literal account of what happened a couple thousand years ago, I think you're in serious need of a reality check.

As someone else mentioned, the Bible is more about meaning and faith than it is about cold hard facts.

You pointed out theory and nothing concrete. 

And why not?  Do you really understand history?  Do you understand that what is written down is how we view how they lived thousands of years ago?  Or are all historical records trumped by science too?  Take the Bayeux Tapestry for example.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry  History? or did someone like to sew?  What made the Vikings leave their homeland?  Can we really take what they've written down as accurate or do we second guess because they shouldn't have had the technology to sail to north america?  Yet, today there is evidence that they indeed were in north america.

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Like, the fact that the law of thermodynamics is all about a closed system.  Hmmmm... I think science has proven that the universe is not a closed system.

Thank you for proving my point. Thermodynamics does not apply to evolution because its not a closed system.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Try a closed system.

Such as? The solar system is a relatively closed system, but has a very high level of energy (mostly stored in the sun). Life on Earth gets all of its energy from the sun (look up trophic food structures if you're confused on this point). So where exactly does this closed system come into play?

How is the universe a closed system and earth is not?  Please enlighten me.

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

I was thinking the same thing about science.  "The world is flat."  And speaking of closed minds...

'The world is flat' was based on experience, not science. I don't think you'd argue that todays scientists are wrong about the world being round, as they have mountains of evidence to support it.

The earth as the center of the universe was scientific was it not?

Skruples wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

Show me a bleeding heart that believes in the Christian God

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

most liberals don't believe in God.

If you're trying to imply that my mind is closed, I would disagree with you. I am an agnostic, I have never said that God did not exist, (and if I did, somewhere, then I made an error). I said that God most likely does not exist, based simply on the utter lack of evidence supporting His existence. However, there is also absolutely no evidence to disprove His existence, so I'm in the middle.

I do, however, believe that the Bible is not factual. That is based on all the best scientific evidence and research of the modern age, and if you refuse to consider that evidence then you, sir, are the one that is close minded.

Your mind is indeed closed because you won't even consider the facts that disprove darwin's evolution when the holes are clearly evident.

Again, how did the matter get there that became the universe.
Where is the fossil record of humans evolving from apes.
Apes from other land animals.
Birds from land animals.
Land animals from fish.
Fish from single cell organisms.

Where's science when questions need answering?

hmm.
you don't seem to understand evolution