i'm sure god appreciates his pragmatic fanboys.FEOS wrote:
People are twisting what I've said into a strict "survival" interpretation, which is not at all what I said. I broke it down to simplistic terms for discussion. That does not mean faith is a simplistic endeavor.
That's God to you, heathen.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
watwazzat? and i'm told you've no sence of humor there. but no, you are confusing me with... umm... you-know-who .FEOS wrote:
Are you sure it's not just because I said it, Shahter?Shahter wrote:
well, you misunderstood me here - it's my poor english again i guess. i don't disagree with you at all, this is my own post in this same thread where i said similar stuff. what i was trying to point out is "what's there to loose?"-argument doesn't work at all, because it tries to back irrational stuff with rational arguments. "i beleave in religion because it's a win/win, it's only pragmatic" ya-fucking-hoo, but how do you know what to beleave in the first place? everybody and their mother in law have their own religion these days and everybody says theirs is the genuine article - how do you know which is the true one?
"they aren't all irrational" you say - of course they aren't, their religious beleafs are and they know it.
eeerh... right.FEOS wrote:
Trying to rationalize an inherently irrational process is what this thread is really about.
but that's the point: you "just know" and i don't. i'm not going to refute your faith - as i said before, it might just be somekinda "sixth sence" which enables you to persieve something i don't - fine, no problem whatsoever. but again, there's no explaining what "green" is to a blind person, and in terms of "just knowing" i'm pretty much "blind" and so are many other people. not only we aren't going to understand your pragmatic approach to religious faith - we are incapable of understanding that stuff at all because faith is pre-requisite we lack. you are placing the wagon in front of a horse here.FEOS wrote:
How do you know what to believe? You just know. No other way to explain it. I'm sure that how you're raised has something to do with it, but I know a lot of religious people who were "raised" in a different religion/denomination than they currently practice/observe.
edit: typos
Last edited by Shahter (2009-04-15 12:42:22)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
I can think of only one person I know who was raised outside a religion who went into it as an adult, and that was more about avoiding getting a real job.FEOS wrote:
I'm sure that how you're raised has something to do with it, but I know a lot of religious people who were "raised" in a different religion/denomination than they currently practice/observe.
Personally I don't think children should be brainwashed with this stuff, let them figure it out as adults if they find they have a hole in them.
Not convince them they have a hole before they can think for themselves.
Fuck Israel
Well, a natural part of maturity is a sense of doubt in the beliefs of your parents as you try to find your own way in the world, so I am less concerned with "brain washing," depending on what you think would qualify. I plan to raise my children with a strong moral sense, as well as all those other socially accpetable traits. Most religions do preach those things. It is a matter of degree and extremism. I do not see a problem with religion in moderation. Of course, anyone who says anything like that is immediately labeled as some sort of bible-thumping nutjob in here, but that really isn't my problem.Dilbert_X wrote:
I can think of only one person I know who was raised outside a religion who went into it as an adult, and that was more about avoiding getting a real job.FEOS wrote:
I'm sure that how you're raised has something to do with it, but I know a lot of religious people who were "raised" in a different religion/denomination than they currently practice/observe.
Personally I don't think children should be brainwashed with this stuff, let them figure it out as adults if they find they have a hole in them.
Not convince them they have a hole before they can think for themselves.
Teaching morality is fine, and there is plenty of good moral stuff in religion, I don't see why it has to be rolled up in religion.
I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.
I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-04-15 05:28:52)
Fuck Israel
Maybe not now, but when you are 7, it does.Dilbert_X wrote:
Teaching morality is fine, and there is plenty of good moral stuff in religion, I don't see why it has to be rolled up in religion.
I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.
We tell our kids about Santa Claus, don't we? What about the Easter Bunny? The Tooth Fairy? Think about all the crap we subject our kids to. Might as well do it with a goal and hope some of the teachings stick; isn't that about all we can do as parents?
I've never once used "God is going to be mad at you" with my kids. Instead, I teach them principles from the Bible as what I expect them to follow in our home. Inducing fear while hoping to sustain morality is a futile endeavor.Dilbert_X wrote:
Teaching morality is fine, and there is plenty of good moral stuff in religion, I don't see why it has to be rolled up in religion.
I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.
Not at all. I don't expect anyone else to believe the same way I do, if at all. Faith is an inherently personal thing. If you are incapable (for whatever reason) of believing in a higher being, that's your thing. You are making a choice when presented with two options. If that decision turns out to be wrong in the end, it's your to deal with, not mine. Same for my choice in the matter.Shahter wrote:
you are placing the wagon in front of a horse here.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I know several. And many others who were raised in one faith and chose another when they got older.Dilbert_X wrote:
I can think of only one person I know who was raised outside a religion who went into it as an adultFEOS wrote:
I'm sure that how you're raised has something to do with it, but I know a lot of religious people who were "raised" in a different religion/denomination than they currently practice/observe.
In full agreement with the notion that "God will be angry" or "Jesus will be sad" or "Buddha will get indigestion" is a non-starter when dealing with kids and teaching them moral behavior. There are far more concrete, effective ways to teach them the notion that choices (ie, behavior) have consequences.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Strawman much?Dilbert_X wrote:
I never found the 'you'd better do it/not do it or God will be angry otherwise' argument very compelling.
Or the 'you'd better do it/not do it or Jesus will be sad' argument either.