Pages: 1 2

 

Poll

Should local government bill those who utilize the EMS services?

Yes16%16% - 4
No83%83% - 20
Standard FU, give up crack.0%0% - 0
Total: 24
2009-04-13 08:45:12
13rin
Member
+977|6763
With state and local budgets gone bust, several different "fees" are popping up.  For example there is a the suggestion of a surcharge for using 'traffic lights' - an extra $4.25 tacked onto one's electric bill.  Currently where I live, the local braintrust is kicking around a fee for utilizing the EMS.  Basically is you call 911 and EMS rolls... You pay for it.  Is this fair?  Isn't governments basic responsibility to provide these types of services first and formost?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2009-04-13 08:46:51
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7127|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Isn't this what taxes are meant to be used for?
2009-04-13 08:54:57
13rin
Member
+977|6763

Sydney wrote:

Isn't this what taxes are meant to be used for?
Yea... That's what I thought, but apparently all the taxes are being used up on performing arts centers and fucking wi-fi on buses.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2009-04-13 09:12:22
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5986|College Park, MD
I've always thought ambulance fees were stupid. Hell even one of the local fire and rescue departments agrees. Charge people for false alarms obviously.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2009-04-13 10:47:26
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7000
I bet you people would stop abusing it if they did... only problem is people would complain that it wasnt fair to poor people... So i suggest that they raise taxes as much as they want to take care of all of us...lol   (sarcasm)
Love is the answer
2009-04-13 10:48:17
Man With No Name
جندي
+148|5859|The Wild West
I thought they do that already.  least where I live.
2009-04-13 10:51:49
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6905|London, England
Only If it's for a stupid reason/time wasting, like some idiot who decides to do something dangerous and then ends up having to have 5 helicopters and an aircraft carrier to save him

More like a fine for inappropriate use/misuse than a bill
2009-04-13 10:58:11
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6802|Montucky
Here in montucky (montana), the rural area's charge for ambulance service, but then again 80% of the ambulance services in Montana are volunteer EMTs, our average bill is 300.00$, most of the time paid by insurance anyway. Our Yearly budget from the County government is 1,000.00$.  Try running 7 ambulances on 1000.00.  In the town I live in, we average about 10 calls per week (just EMS), but due to state law, we don't have the population for a paid EMS service or Fire/Rescue. 

The bigger cities, don't have a paid EMS service, they use private companies or the Hospital has their own fleet.  The fire department personal are city employees, or for the bigger areas, county employees.




A private company has the right to bill you for their services, but a local government run EMS service doesn't, the city government needs to unfuck their budget.
2009-04-13 11:06:50
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6826|Texas - Bigger than France

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Isn't this what taxes are meant to be used for?
Yea... That's what I thought, but apparently all the taxes are being used up on performing arts centers and fucking wi-fi on buses.
Well, in my town, the fucking wi-fi is being used to read the water meters, saving thousands by replacing water meter reader jobs.

As far as EMS, it should be part of taxes.  If there's a shortfall, then vote to increase taxes or eliminate programs or some EMS service to make up the difference.

But if you're a dumbass - for instance during Hurricane Ike, some people were helichoppered out of their homes in Galveston after a mandatory evacuation was issued - then you should pay.
2009-04-13 11:18:56
13rin
Member
+977|6763

Pug wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Isn't this what taxes are meant to be used for?
Yea... That's what I thought, but apparently all the taxes are being used up on performing arts centers and fucking wi-fi on buses.
Well, in my town, the fucking wi-fi is being used to read the water meters, saving thousands by replacing water meter reader jobs.

As far as EMS, it should be part of taxes.  If there's a shortfall, then vote to increase taxes or eliminate programs or some EMS service to make up the difference.

But if you're a dumbass - for instance during Hurricane Ike, some people were helichoppered out of their homes in Galveston after a mandatory evacuation was issued - then you should pay.
I could see wi-fi read meters, but for free internet access on buses? 

So you support pay if an evacuation order has been issued, then a 911 call is made?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2009-04-13 12:11:12
imortal
Member
+240|6949|Austin, TX
In my area, the local EMS budget is paid for by the city (read as "taxes").  In addition to that, people are billed for any dispatch to a scene (provided care was rendered).  Did you know it costs $1000 just to start up our local medical helicopter and get it airborne, even if you cancel it 5 minutes later?  Now, a bill from the EMS can be from $300 just to be assessed on scene and to have them go away, to $600+ to be transported to the hospital.  Sometimes, your insurance covers it, sometimes it doesn't.  I know that the billing department does not go after each and every penny out there, but does try to bring in the funds.  In our area, EMS generates cash to the city second only to the local city run electric company. 

Incidentally, EMS is also 1st or 2nd in customer satisfaction for city services every year, trading places with that same electric company.

Ambulance service is expensive, whether it is paying the crews, medical insurance on those same crews to practice, paying for the ambulance, including insurance on THAT, paying for the fuel, stocking the rig with some pretty expensive meds (some costing nearly $100 a dose), training for the crews... it goes on and on.  Oh, and that ambulance has to be replaced every 4-6 years, just from the amount of miles (and wear and tear) put on it.  Personally, I think everyone should put a bit into the EMS till (as an insurance policy to keep it around), but I also think that those who actually used the service should pay more.  I like our system.
2009-04-13 12:12:23
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6826|Texas - Bigger than France

DBBrinson1 wrote:

I could see wi-fi read meters, but for free internet access on buses? 

So you support pay if an evacuation order has been issued, then a 911 call is made?
I'm kind of neutral on the wi-fi for all issue.  If it's a zero-sum game between EMS and wi-fi, you're right.

re: evacuation order.  It was a mandatory evacuation for everyone.  AKA a suspension of public services.  This means "911" isn't being serviced by the city as the citizens were informed the services were discontinued.  edit: ooops, the people should pay, not the city.

I believe the "victims" received a $80k bill.  But I haven't tracked the story since then.

Last edited by Pug (2009-04-13 12:13:54)

2009-04-13 12:21:56
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6935|USA

DBBrinson1 wrote:

With state and local budgets gone bust, several different "fees" are popping up.  For example there is a the suggestion of a surcharge for using 'traffic lights' - an extra $4.25 tacked onto one's electric bill.  Currently where I live, the local braintrust is kicking around a fee for utilizing the EMS.  Basically is you call 911 and EMS rolls... You pay for it.  Is this fair?  Isn't governments basic responsibility to provide these types of services first and formost?
Welcome to socialism, with this in effect, if you can't pay for these services no worries, someone can pay it for you in the form of yet another govt. program that will skim more money from the earners to pay for the non-earners.

Ya know, just like what is already in place.

So what is it that is not "fair"? The fact that the rich will have to pay for this shit and not you ( because after all they can afford it) or is it not "fair" because everyone is expected to pay, including those that can't ( won't)?

Who are you looking to be "fair" to?
2009-04-13 12:24:51
imortal
Member
+240|6949|Austin, TX

S3v3N wrote:

Here in montucky (montana), the rural area's charge for ambulance service, but then again 80% of the ambulance services in Montana are volunteer EMTs, our average bill is 300.00$, most of the time paid by insurance anyway. Our Yearly budget from the County government is 1,000.00$.  Try running 7 ambulances on 1000.00.  In the town I live in, we average about 10 calls per week (just EMS), but due to state law, we don't have the population for a paid EMS service or Fire/Rescue. 

The bigger cities, don't have a paid EMS service, they use private companies or the Hospital has their own fleet.  The fire department personal are city employees, or for the bigger areas, county employees.




A private company has the right to bill you for their services, but a local government run EMS service doesn't, the city government needs to unfuck their budget.
That is sometimes true.  For big cities, EMS options include:

Fire-based EMS (EMS part of the fire department)
Hospital-based EMS (paid for/run by the hospital)
Contract to private companies (city pays contract to private ambulance company for coverage)
"3rd service" (City run, equivilant to Fire or Police, but seperate from either)

My city (Austin, TX) is one of the largest '3rd service' agencies in the nation.
2009-04-13 12:28:51
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6935|USA

imortal wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

Here in montucky (montana), the rural area's charge for ambulance service, but then again 80% of the ambulance services in Montana are volunteer EMTs, our average bill is 300.00$, most of the time paid by insurance anyway. Our Yearly budget from the County government is 1,000.00$.  Try running 7 ambulances on 1000.00.  In the town I live in, we average about 10 calls per week (just EMS), but due to state law, we don't have the population for a paid EMS service or Fire/Rescue. 

The bigger cities, don't have a paid EMS service, they use private companies or the Hospital has their own fleet.  The fire department personal are city employees, or for the bigger areas, county employees.




A private company has the right to bill you for their services, but a local government run EMS service doesn't, the city government needs to unfuck their budget.
That is sometimes true.  For big cities, EMS options include:

Fire-based EMS (EMS part of the fire department)
Hospital-based EMS (paid for/run by the hospital)
Contract to private companies (city pays contract to private ambulance company for coverage)
"3rd service" (City run, equivilant to Fire or Police, but seperate from either)

My city (Austin, TX) is one of the largest '3rd service' agencies in the nation.
Question:

Are third party services obligated to transport your ass if you are not able to pay?
2009-04-13 12:31:11
imortal
Member
+240|6949|Austin, TX

lowing wrote:

imortal wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

Here in montucky (montana), the rural area's charge for ambulance service, but then again 80% of the ambulance services in Montana are volunteer EMTs, our average bill is 300.00$, most of the time paid by insurance anyway. Our Yearly budget from the County government is 1,000.00$.  Try running 7 ambulances on 1000.00.  In the town I live in, we average about 10 calls per week (just EMS), but due to state law, we don't have the population for a paid EMS service or Fire/Rescue. 

The bigger cities, don't have a paid EMS service, they use private companies or the Hospital has their own fleet.  The fire department personal are city employees, or for the bigger areas, county employees.




A private company has the right to bill you for their services, but a local government run EMS service doesn't, the city government needs to unfuck their budget.
That is sometimes true.  For big cities, EMS options include:

Fire-based EMS (EMS part of the fire department)
Hospital-based EMS (paid for/run by the hospital)
Contract to private companies (city pays contract to private ambulance company for coverage)
"3rd service" (City run, equivilant to Fire or Police, but seperate from either)

My city (Austin, TX) is one of the largest '3rd service' agencies in the nation.
Question:

Are third party services obligated to transport your ass if you are not able to pay?
Yes.

By our last medical director (he has moved on; looking for replacement), anyone who wants a ride (even for a stubbed toe) gets one.  Any call for medical assistance to 911 (even for a splinter) gets an ambulance.  The paramedics on the crew are only interested in patient care; let billing handle getting the money later.

Last edited by imortal (2009-04-13 12:31:58)

2009-04-13 12:36:10
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6935|USA

imortal wrote:

lowing wrote:

imortal wrote:


That is sometimes true.  For big cities, EMS options include:

Fire-based EMS (EMS part of the fire department)
Hospital-based EMS (paid for/run by the hospital)
Contract to private companies (city pays contract to private ambulance company for coverage)
"3rd service" (City run, equivilant to Fire or Police, but seperate from either)

My city (Austin, TX) is one of the largest '3rd service' agencies in the nation.
Question:

Are third party services obligated to transport your ass if you are not able to pay?
Yes.

By our last medical director (he has moved on; looking for replacement), anyone who wants a ride (even for a stubbed toe) gets one.  Any call for medical assistance to 911 (even for a splinter) gets an ambulance.  The paramedics on the crew are only interested in patient care; let billing handle getting the money later.
So when it is done and said, who is ultimately stuck paying for a transport in the event the patient does not pay? Or is it simply written off at a loss?
2009-04-13 12:41:04
imortal
Member
+240|6949|Austin, TX

lowing wrote:

imortal wrote:

lowing wrote:

Question:

Are third party services obligated to transport your ass if you are not able to pay?
Yes.

By our last medical director (he has moved on; looking for replacement), anyone who wants a ride (even for a stubbed toe) gets one.  Any call for medical assistance to 911 (even for a splinter) gets an ambulance.  The paramedics on the crew are only interested in patient care; let billing handle getting the money later.
So when it is done and said, who is ultimately stuck paying for a transport in the event the patient does not pay? Or is it simply written off at a loss?
..written off, to a degree.  The file never gets shredded, never gets completely closed.  If you win the lottery, someone from billing will be knocking at your door.

However, if you don't have the money, they are not going to deny care.  There is a woman in our town who has worked up better than a 2 million dollar EMS bill, due to calling 911 2 or 3 times a day (on average) for help.  She has issues, obviously.  But billing still keeps track of her account, and an ambulance still shows up every time she calls 911.  Because you never know; next time may be for real.

***EDIT: As to who pays, remember, the EMS budget comes out of the city coffers; any money paid to EMS as bills paid gets put back into the city, not just to EMS.

Last edited by imortal (2009-04-13 12:42:55)

2009-04-13 12:44:32
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6935|USA

imortal wrote:

lowing wrote:

imortal wrote:


Yes.

By our last medical director (he has moved on; looking for replacement), anyone who wants a ride (even for a stubbed toe) gets one.  Any call for medical assistance to 911 (even for a splinter) gets an ambulance.  The paramedics on the crew are only interested in patient care; let billing handle getting the money later.
So when it is done and said, who is ultimately stuck paying for a transport in the event the patient does not pay? Or is it simply written off at a loss?
..written off, to a degree.  The file never gets shredded, never gets completely closed.  If you win the lottery, someone from billing will be knocking at your door.

However, if you don't have the money, they are not going to deny care.  There is a woman in our town who has worked up better than a 2 million dollar EMS bill, due to calling 911 2 or 3 times a day (on average) for help.  She has issues, obviously.  But billing still keeps track of her account, and an ambulance still shows up every time she calls 911.  Because you never know; next time may be for real.
fraud comes to mind, isn't falsly dialing 911 a crime? I would count this as a serious offense, since she is denying a REAL emergency a means for a response.

Why has she not been thumped for this abuse?
2009-04-13 12:48:35
imortal
Member
+240|6949|Austin, TX

imortal wrote:

lowing wrote:

imortal wrote:


Yes.

By our last medical director (he has moved on; looking for replacement), anyone who wants a ride (even for a stubbed toe) gets one.  Any call for medical assistance to 911 (even for a splinter) gets an ambulance.  The paramedics on the crew are only interested in patient care; let billing handle getting the money later.
So when it is done and said, who is ultimately stuck paying for a transport in the event the patient does not pay? Or is it simply written off at a loss?
..written off, to a degree.  The file never gets shredded, never gets completely closed.  If you win the lottery, someone from billing will be knocking at your door.

However, if you don't have the money, they are not going to deny care.  There is a woman in our town who has worked up better than a 2 million dollar EMS bill, due to calling 911 2 or 3 times a day (on average) for help.  She has issues, obviously.  But billing still keeps track of her account, and an ambulance still shows up every time she calls 911.  Because you never know; next time may be for real.

***EDIT: As to who pays, remember, the EMS budget comes out of the city coffers; any money paid to EMS as bills paid gets put back into the city, not just to EMS.
She has mental issues, not competant; can't jail her.   The medical director's office has been working to get her commited.  Her poor mother works full time at Walmart; the city is not going to foister a huge bill on her, you know?  So it comes out of the taxpayer.  Not an ideal solution, but a workable one. That 2 mil is total, not in a year or anything; she has been doing this for a long time. 

There are no perfect solutions; the best we can hope for is a workable one.    I like that; that needs to be a quote.
2009-04-13 17:05:11
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6695|'Murka

I'm pretty sure that whoever calls EMS has to pay for it, regardless. Or their insurance does.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-04-13 17:07:35
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5869

FEOS wrote:

I'm pretty sure that whoever calls EMS has to pay for it, regardless. Or their insurance does.
here they do. expensive too
2009-04-13 17:25:07
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7052
We have that system in Australia. You have to pay for your Ambulance ride. It can range from $300-$700

Or you can get Ambulance "cover" which is like insurance.
2009-04-13 17:29:44
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5827|Toronto
Use the system we have in Ontario. Calling an ambulance is free so long as it actually is an emergency. If they deem it not to be (very specific listed used, it's not subjective) then you get a nice ~$45 (I can't remember the exact charge).

To those who need the service it is available and to those who abuse it, we abuse your wallet.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2009-04-13 20:24:02
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6689|North Carolina
I voted no, because in my case, our EMS is being run by different counties anyway.  A neighboring county services my area, so I pay them a fee even though I don't even live in that county.

Then again, I also live in the 3rd most expensive healthcare market in the country.  We have so few providers per capita that they charge the shit out of us for everything -- including EMS.  Don't expect insurance to cover it either.

 

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