What are you basing that on? There is no record of Jesus as a teenager. He could have been stalking young children and raping babies for all we know.lowing wrote:
IF he were a child molester and a murderer, Jesus probably would not have the historical following he does.
Children still get fingered by priests and little girls still get fucked by their daddies in backwater US Christian states- has your world really advanced and grown up? A white honkie from a Christian nation putting a bad spin on Muhammad is about as credible as a hardcore Jew or Muslim saying that Jesus boned a hooker and smoked weed every day-- it just doesn't matter. These individuals are as much fiction as they are reality, and basing an argument about an apocryphal series of myths and implicitly-moral lessons is retarded. It's like arguing over the greater good between The Cookie Monster or Kermit The Frog. You have been shown a clear example of a case where Shariah law intervened in state/political failure (as acknowledged in a corrupt and struggling society, Yemen) to grant the gift of liberty, freedom and what is effectively manumission. Shariah works in many nations and helps a lot of people. Obscene judgements and wrong calls are made very often in Westernised and 'developed' countries too you know - it may be a different culture - but everyone still makes lapses in judgement and common error. You really have nothing to stand on in your negative depiction of Islam and their laws, you elucidate upon nothing other than your own stupidity and narrowmindedness.lowing wrote:
Welcome to the 21st century. The world grew up, well apparently most of it. This is the problem with IslamBertster7 wrote:
Faillure of national law tbh.lowing wrote:
No I missed that, since when is LEGALLY selling your 8 year old, into marriage and sex NOT child abuse?
Is there any Christian law that prevents selling your 8 year old daughter into marriage? No. There isn't. Which is why it used to happen all the time in Christian societies.
Without the national legal framework to prevent this sort of stuff, it still happens in Christian countries.lowing wrote:
What does Sharia Law have to d owith it? It is the Islamic Imams' that uphold Sharia Law, and now it the Islamic govt. that upholds Sharia Law as legal and binding justice.Bertster7 wrote:
So what does Sharia law have to do with that then?lowing wrote:
Welcome to the 21st century. The world grew up, well apparently most of it. This is the problem with Islam
You're comparing two very different things. National and religious law are not directly comparable. Yes, those countries are more backward and stuck in a medieval mindset, but blaming the religion alone is extremely naive. There is a lot of bad stuff in Christianity too - and in less developed Christian countries we still see attrocities committed in the name of religion.
What DOESN'T Sharia Law, have to do with Islam,?
and please stop excusing this religion for legally recognizing selling a daughter into slavery and sex because, well, no one is perfect.
Well, you can think what you want, but if a church so steeped in tradition recognized the OLD Testament as just as significant as the NEW Testament and the word of Jesus, then you would think they would honor it with celebration throughout the year instead of completely 100% ignore it.Bertster7 wrote:
I couldn't give two hoots for your opinion. The opinion of the Catholic church is very clear. The council of Trent say it is canonical and that Mosaic law is to be followed. That's the opinion of the church, who are a far more authoratative source than you. End of story.lowing wrote:
I was raised Catholic. Never not once did our priest give a surmon and read out of the Old testament. Like I said, the Old testament is acknowledged by Christians, however their faith lies in the teachings of Jesus.Bertster7 wrote:
Moses was a messenger of God in the Old Testament (one of many), Jesus was a messenger of God in the New Testament.
Same God. New Testament is just an updated revision.
The Old Testament is a fundamental part of Christianity. It is not quite the same as the Tanakh, but is (very, very) similar. According to the Roman Catholic Church, the Old Testament is canonical and and Jesus has attested to the permanent validity of Mosaic law. Your views would seem to be in violent contradiction of the views of the Catholic Church who are probably more qualified to make such assertions. In fact virtually all major churches share this belief apart from some weird baptist types....
Perhaps the fact that Christians do not celebrate a single event out of the OLD testament, that you say Christians hold so dear, would be evidence.
http://www.christianitysite.com/calendar.htm
I see, so now a lack of evidence, the fact that no one said he DID, means he could have. Love to see that argument in court.AussieReaper wrote:
What are you basing that on? There is no record of Jesus as a teenager. He could have been stalking young children and raping babies for all we know.lowing wrote:
IF he were a child molester and a murderer, Jesus probably would not have the historical following he does.
Just because Saul wrote what a great guy he was, does not make it so. You yourself have said you don't believe the rising from the dead story, etc so how does anything else written about Jesus become fact?
THis is true, the difference being, it is not done legally with full consent or approval by the govt. like it is in Islamic countries.Uzique wrote:
Children still get fingered by priests and little girls still get fucked by their daddies in backwater US Christian states- has your world really advanced and grown up? A white honkie from a Christian nation putting a bad spin on Muhammad is about as credible as a hardcore Jew or Muslim saying that Jesus boned a hooker and smoked weed every day-- it just doesn't matter. These individuals are as much fiction as they are reality, and basing an argument about an apocryphal series of myths and implicitly-moral lessons is retarded. It's like arguing over the greater good between The Cookie Monster or Kermit The Frog. You have been shown a clear example of a case where Shariah law intervened in state/political failure (as acknowledged in a corrupt and struggling society, Yemen) to grant the gift of liberty, freedom and what is effectively manumission. Shariah works in many nations and helps a lot of people. Obscene judgements and wrong calls are made very often in Westernised and 'developed' countries too you know - it may be a different culture - but everyone still makes lapses in judgement and common error. You really have nothing to stand on in your negative depiction of Islam and their laws, you elucidate upon nothing other than your own stupidity and narrowmindedness.lowing wrote:
Welcome to the 21st century. The world grew up, well apparently most of it. This is the problem with IslamBertster7 wrote:
Faillure of national law tbh.
Is there any Christian law that prevents selling your 8 year old daughter into marriage? No. There isn't. Which is why it used to happen all the time in Christian societies.
Last edited by lowing (2009-04-13 05:02:49)
Perhaps you should be asking why your country has been supporting the Saudi regime and all its fuckedupness for decades first.lowing wrote:
Now I thought I was just in a discussion today, where it was argued by the pro Islamic folks, that child molestation was just for ancient times and "everyone did it back then", so I shouldn't knock Muhammed for doing it.
Then I read this? http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/ … index.html
Sounds like child molestation is alive and well in Islamic culture. Oh well so much for that argument. Muhammed would be proud to know his traditions are alive and well in the 21st century under his beloved peaceful Islam
Most Christian holidays aren't in either the old or the new testament properly, most of them just stole from the native religions of Europe and it was incorporated into Christianity to make it easier to convert/subdue the populace to Christianity (and thus, to the will of the Pope, it was just Roman Empire v2, at least until the reformation, why do you think people like Henry VIII did what he did)lowing wrote:
Well, you can think what you want, but if a church so steeped in tradition recognized the OLD Testament as just as significant as the NEW Testament and the word of Jesus, then you would think they would honor it with celebration throughout the year instead of completely 100% ignore it.Bertster7 wrote:
I couldn't give two hoots for your opinion. The opinion of the Catholic church is very clear. The council of Trent say it is canonical and that Mosaic law is to be followed. That's the opinion of the church, who are a far more authoratative source than you. End of story.lowing wrote:
I was raised Catholic. Never not once did our priest give a surmon and read out of the Old testament. Like I said, the Old testament is acknowledged by Christians, however their faith lies in the teachings of Jesus.
Perhaps the fact that Christians do not celebrate a single event out of the OLD testament, that you say Christians hold so dear, would be evidence.
http://www.christianitysite.com/calendar.htm
No not really, an 8 year old, getting legally sold off into sex and slavery is hardly asking herself that question. So that makes it pretty irrelevant.JahManRed wrote:
Perhaps you should be asking why your country has been supporting the Saudi regime and all its fuckedupness for decades first.lowing wrote:
Now I thought I was just in a discussion today, where it was argued by the pro Islamic folks, that child molestation was just for ancient times and "everyone did it back then", so I shouldn't knock Muhammed for doing it.
Then I read this? http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/ … index.html
Sounds like child molestation is alive and well in Islamic culture. Oh well so much for that argument. Muhammed would be proud to know his traditions are alive and well in the 21st century under his beloved peaceful Islam
I think you need to reread the article again without that Yankee-Doodle shit smeared in your eyes, at no point did the Islamic countries, or even the single-hardcore (by all definition) state of Saudi Arabia give "full consent and approval" to what happened. A miscalculation of justice or a judicial error, perhaps. There's a very big difference between that (which has happened in Western countries with greater consequences- how many innocent people do you send to the needle/electric chair?) and a full nation of Islamic believers and people somehow condoning the literal marriage (NOT RAPE OR SEX THOSE ARE YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS) of a minor to an adult. Clearly a mistake was made, but a more egregious error is made in the things you read and take from this article, which operate on nothing more than your own stupidity.lowing wrote:
THis is true, the difference being, it is not done legally with full consent or approval by the govt. like it is in Islamic countries.Uzique wrote:
Children still get fingered by priests and little girls still get fucked by their daddies in backwater US Christian states- has your world really advanced and grown up? A white honkie from a Christian nation putting a bad spin on Muhammad is about as credible as a hardcore Jew or Muslim saying that Jesus boned a hooker and smoked weed every day-- it just doesn't matter. These individuals are as much fiction as they are reality, and basing an argument about an apocryphal series of myths and implicitly-moral lessons is retarded. It's like arguing over the greater good between The Cookie Monster or Kermit The Frog. You have been shown a clear example of a case where Shariah law intervened in state/political failure (as acknowledged in a corrupt and struggling society, Yemen) to grant the gift of liberty, freedom and what is effectively manumission. Shariah works in many nations and helps a lot of people. Obscene judgements and wrong calls are made very often in Westernised and 'developed' countries too you know - it may be a different culture - but everyone still makes lapses in judgement and common error. You really have nothing to stand on in your negative depiction of Islam and their laws, you elucidate upon nothing other than your own stupidity and narrowmindedness.lowing wrote:
Welcome to the 21st century. The world grew up, well apparently most of it. This is the problem with Islam
Sorry, it isn't "there aren't many Christian holidays that relate to the OT". There are NONE that celebrate the events in the OLD tesament.Mekstizzle wrote:
Most Christian holidays aren't in either the old or the new testament properly, most of them just stole from the native religions of Europe and it was incorporated into Christianity to make it easier to convert/subdue the populace to Christianity (and thus, to the will of the Pope, it was just Roman Empire v2, at least until the reformation, why do you think people like Henry VIII did what he did)lowing wrote:
Well, you can think what you want, but if a church so steeped in tradition recognized the OLD Testament as just as significant as the NEW Testament and the word of Jesus, then you would think they would honor it with celebration throughout the year instead of completely 100% ignore it.Bertster7 wrote:
I couldn't give two hoots for your opinion. The opinion of the Catholic church is very clear. The council of Trent say it is canonical and that Mosaic law is to be followed. That's the opinion of the church, who are a far more authoratative source than you. End of story.
I suppose just because there aren't many Christian holidays that relate to the OT that clearly means that the OT is completely irrelevant to Christianity and thus doesn't count. Oh yeah, and the whole notion of not working on a Sunday, I wonder what testament that came from
most of saharan africa.Flecco wrote:
Still waiting on you to point out more than one country this is acceptable in....
I'm still waiting on that quote from the Qur'an, or the proof in which an entire nation of Muslims give an approving head-nod whilst an 8 year old girl is barbarically raped in front of them in a gladiator arena by an uncouth sweaty man with a razorblade for a penis. Because that sure as hell seems to be the demoniacal impression of Islam that his indoctrinating and perverted Catholic upbringing instilled in him. You really can't take the bigotism out of the incomprehensibly stupid Christian right-wing, can you? The worst thing of all is that they're convinced they're the more advanced and civil of the monotheistic religions of the world-- the only difference being that Christianity took hold in already-productive societies and cultures that just happened to play the capitalism game better than the other areas of the world. Strip away all of the material human constructs and Christianity is still just as brutal, as biased and as flawed as Islam or Judaism. Threads like this are just a competition in ascertaining which of the 3 fails the least at any given point. It's all ultimately fucking fruitless.Flecco wrote:
Still waiting on you to point out more than one country this is acceptable in....
Last edited by Uzique (2009-04-13 05:12:38)
The point is, it is the very "national legal framework" of Islam that condones this bullshit. I kinda thought I made that point several times now.Bertster7 wrote:
Without the national legal framework to prevent this sort of stuff, it still happens in Christian countries.lowing wrote:
What does Sharia Law have to d owith it? It is the Islamic Imams' that uphold Sharia Law, and now it the Islamic govt. that upholds Sharia Law as legal and binding justice.Bertster7 wrote:
So what does Sharia law have to do with that then?
You're comparing two very different things. National and religious law are not directly comparable. Yes, those countries are more backward and stuck in a medieval mindset, but blaming the religion alone is extremely naive. There is a lot of bad stuff in Christianity too - and in less developed Christian countries we still see attrocities committed in the name of religion.
What DOESN'T Sharia Law, have to do with Islam,?
and please stop excusing this religion for legally recognizing selling a daughter into slavery and sex because, well, no one is perfect.
Your point is?
Last edited by Uzique (2009-04-13 05:19:30)
I am not Christian, sorry,Uzique wrote:
I'm still waiting on that quote from the Qur'an, or the proof in which an entire nation of Muslims give an approving head-nod whilst an 8 year old girl is barbarically raped in front of them in a gladiator arena by an uncouth sweaty man with a razorblade for a penis. Because that sure as hell seems to be the demoniacal impression of Islam that his indoctrinating and perverted Catholic upbringing instilled in him. You really can't take the bigotism out of the incomprehensibly stupid Christian right-wing, can you? The worst thing of all is that they're convinced they're the more advanced and civil of the monotheistic religions of the world-- the only difference being that Christianity took hold in already-productive societies and cultures that just happened to play the capitalism game better than the other areas of the world. Strip away all of the material human constructs and Christianity is still just as brutal, as biased and as flawed as Islam or Judaism. Threads like this are just a competition in ascertaining which of the 3 fails the least at any given point. It's all ultimately fucking fruitless.Flecco wrote:
Still waiting on you to point out more than one country this is acceptable in....
And I'm sorry Ted, you have just as much proof as Lowing (i.e. your stupid fucking prejudices) when it comes to accusing the entire regions of Saharan Africa and Asia with condoning child-molestation. Listen to yourself, for fucks's sake. Would you be impressed if some crazy Muslim cleric in London started shouting from his mosque-pavement that all of the UK, and all of Europe, were child-fuckers and molesters- because an ultra-conservative inept old fart in the Crown Court made a poor judgement? Fuck off.
Brb going back to trolling EE, this is a waste of time.
Oh so this is an isolated incident now? Islam does not approve of this? Sharia Law does not allow this?Uzique wrote:
I think you need to reread the article again without that Yankee-Doodle shit smeared in your eyes, at no point did the Islamic countries, or even the single-hardcore (by all definition) state of Saudi Arabia give "full consent and approval" to what happened. A miscalculation of justice or a judicial error, perhaps. There's a very big difference between that (which has happened in Western countries with greater consequences- how many innocent people do you send to the needle/electric chair?) and a full nation of Islamic believers and people somehow condoning the literal marriage (NOT RAPE OR SEX THOSE ARE YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS) of a minor to an adult. Clearly a mistake was made, but a more egregious error is made in the things you read and take from this article, which operate on nothing more than your own stupidity.lowing wrote:
THis is true, the difference being, it is not done legally with full consent or approval by the govt. like it is in Islamic countries.Uzique wrote:
Children still get fingered by priests and little girls still get fucked by their daddies in backwater US Christian states- has your world really advanced and grown up? A white honkie from a Christian nation putting a bad spin on Muhammad is about as credible as a hardcore Jew or Muslim saying that Jesus boned a hooker and smoked weed every day-- it just doesn't matter. These individuals are as much fiction as they are reality, and basing an argument about an apocryphal series of myths and implicitly-moral lessons is retarded. It's like arguing over the greater good between The Cookie Monster or Kermit The Frog. You have been shown a clear example of a case where Shariah law intervened in state/political failure (as acknowledged in a corrupt and struggling society, Yemen) to grant the gift of liberty, freedom and what is effectively manumission. Shariah works in many nations and helps a lot of people. Obscene judgements and wrong calls are made very often in Westernised and 'developed' countries too you know - it may be a different culture - but everyone still makes lapses in judgement and common error. You really have nothing to stand on in your negative depiction of Islam and their laws, you elucidate upon nothing other than your own stupidity and narrowmindedness.
I didn't get kicked out you gayUzique wrote:
Can you guys stop having a dick swinging contest over your knowledge of fake tales and bullshit calendar wank and get back on topic.
Mek I notice you're only interested in coming into a topic when you can trivially trump someone on some inane bullshit, is this the failsome pseudo-knowledge that got you kicked out of University? You're all missing the point, or rather should I rephrase, you're all extending and proving the point by being as stupid as the resident bigot, Lowing.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-04-13 05:25:46)
Like the man said, not working on a Sunday.lowing wrote:
There are NONE that celebrate the events in the OLD tesament.
uzique wrote:
It's like arguing over the greater good between The Cookie Monster or Kermit The Frog.
I did not say it was not applicable to Christianity. I said it is not the foundation of Christian faith. It is not the Old Testament that is adhered to as the word of God. CHRIST is worshipped in CHRISTianity. ChRIST is the new messenger of God for CHRISTians. It is kinda sorta why they call themselves that instead of MOSESiansMekstizzle wrote:
It doesn't even matter, how is that an argument that the Old Testament is not applicable to Christianity, it just isn't, all it highlights is the fact that they preferred to incorporate native European holidays into Christianity rather than include all the other foreign holidays from the Middle East that would make the religion harder to understand, thus harder to convert everyone, it's quite simple really. The main people responsible for the rise of Christianity in Europe weren't fools.
But anyway, It's still a key integral part. Berts already said everything about it that needs to be said with the councils of Trent etc etc..
