and that's why I'm not religious. They've made it too damn complicated. Reading the bible is worse than reading a legal text.FEOS wrote:
I never said that...teddy..jimmy wrote:
waiittt...so jesus isn't god's son?FEOS wrote:
Actually, he was born after Mary and Joseph were married, so he wouldn't be a bastard.
Joseph may be a bit slow for buying the whole "I didn't have sex" argument, though.
And depending on who you talk to, Jesus is either God's son...or is God himself. Or, if you're Mormon, he's a really good Mormon's son.
Easy to get yourself into hole with the wording, although, I think it's pretty clear who he was making himself out to be...teddy..jimmy wrote:
and that's why I'm not religious. They've made it too damn complicated. Reading the bible is worse than reading a legal text.FEOS wrote:
I never said that...teddy..jimmy wrote:
waiittt...so jesus isn't god's son?
And depending on who you talk to, Jesus is either God's son...or is God himself. Or, if you're Mormon, he's a really good Mormon's son.
Remember, it is supposed to be the father, son and holy spirit/ghost. Muslims, for instance don't believe it because they are very much into the ''oneness'' of God. So there you are teddy, become a mooozlem
An interesting story is here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30153678/
"We do know some things about the historical Jesus — less than some Christians think, but more than some skeptics think. Though a few books have recently argued that Jesus never existed, the evidence that he did is persuasive to the vast majority of scholars, whether Christian or non-Christian," said Marcus Borg, a retired professor of religion and culture at Oregon State University and current fellow of the Jesus Seminar, a group of preeminent academics that debate the factuality of Jesus' life as portrayed in the Bible.
During his baptism, Jesus likely experienced some sort of divine vision. Shortly afterwards, Jesus began his public preaching with the message that the world could be transformed into a "Kingdom of God." He became a noted healer, teacher and prophet. More healing stories are told about Jesus than about any other figure in the Jewish tradition. He was executed by Roman imperial authority. His followers experienced him after his death. It is clear that they had visions of Jesus as they had known him during his historical life. Only after his death did they declare Jesus to be "Lord" or "the Son of God."
Factuality not important
In between those points, the historical details are hard to verify, says Borg, who believes that the importance of the less "plausible" stories found in the Bible — such as the resurrection — lies not in whether they actually happened but in what they meant to Jesus' followers.
"If we understand these stories as parables about Jesus — as metaphorical narratives about him — then the question of their factuality vanishes as an important question," Borg told LiveScience. "[With] this approach," he continued, "it does not matter whether Jesus was born of a virgin or changed water into wine or walked on water. To those who insist on their factuality, I would say: 'Fine — let's not argue about that. Now, let's talk about what they mean.'"
Some parts of the Bible likely strayed from history for emphasis, Hagerland agrees. The public's negative reaction to Jesus' preaching of forgiveness is one example, he said.
"The reactions as depicted in the Gospels must have been exaggerated because, as far as we can know from historical research, no first-century Jew would have considered the proclamation of forgiveness blasphemous," Hagerland said. "It is far more likely then, that the controversy over Jesus' proclamation of forgiveness is not grounded in an historical exchange, but was brought into the episode for rhetorical purposes."
"His followers found meaning in his death," Borg continued, and even though Jesus likely considered himself a prophet, the titles ascribed to him, "as messiah, Son of God, Lord, and so forth are probably post-Easter affirmations by his followers [and] testimonies to the significance that he had come to have in their lives. As testimonies, they are powerful affirmations about Jesus. And for Christians, true, even though they probably don't go back to Jesus himself."
Last edited by FEOS (2009-04-12 17:04:07)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
He rose again.Man With No Name wrote:
and did absolutely nothing to avoid it, whats the big deal?
He didn't need to avoid it, He knew He was gonna rise again in a few days.Stingray24 wrote:
He rose again.Man With No Name wrote:
and did absolutely nothing to avoid it, whats the big deal?
He is Risen!
http://www.conservapedia.com/Jesus#Garden_of_Gethsemane
http://www.conservapedia.com/Jesus#Resurrection
Last edited by nickb64 (2009-04-13 08:16:03)
so as I thought, he knew he was gonna be ok in the end. So he didnt really sacrifice his life "for the sins of man" because he knew the outcome. thanks for clearing that up.nickb64 wrote:
He didn't need to avoid it, He knew He was gonna rise again in a few days.Stingray24 wrote:
He rose again.Man With No Name wrote:
and did absolutely nothing to avoid it, whats the big deal?
Explain to me how the hell that works?Man With No Name wrote:
he didnt really sacrifice his life "for the sins of man" because he knew the outcome.
So somehow, knowledge dilutes an event now?
Example:
If I am to take a beating, but I know I will eventually heal up from it, am not really taking a beating. Because I knew the outcome?
WTF?
Hmmm,.. never had this add before on BF2s.
I don't follow his logic either, He still suffered and died, but His resurrection showed that He had power over death, and He was sacrificed for humanity, since we can never be good enough to be forgiven without the belief in Jesus, and His grace.Bell wrote:
Explain to me how the hell that works?Man With No Name wrote:
he didnt really sacrifice his life "for the sins of man" because he knew the outcome.
So somehow, knowledge dilutes an event now?
Example:
If I am to take a beating, but I know I will eventually heal up from it, am not really taking a beating. Because I knew the outcome?
WTF?
You haven't? I get it all the time.Lai wrote:
Hmmm,.. never had this add before on BF2s.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/403/hebrew.jpg
@ nick, Slinga's point is this.
Immortality trivialises any pain he may have felt over that 2 or 3 day period or w/e he faced at the hands of the Romans. No point in trying to look at his life objectively anyway, the Catholic Bible was put together as a political tool and has extreme bias.
Last edited by Flecco (2009-04-13 15:02:07)
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
So easy to bash christianity.. you don't have to fear being called a racist.
Didn't read it all but the Reason Jesus is Martyred is because he new his fate and didn't run.
Don't think so really. Jesus still had doubt when he was on the cross didn't he?
Aye, there is a couple of instances in the gospels where jesus does not appear to be all knowing.Lai wrote:
Don't think so really. Jesus still had doubt when he was on the cross didn't he?
Like when he was asked when are you returning, he said only the father knows, and ofcourse the, father why have you forsaken me bit.
And I think there are a few others.
Martyn
Jesus was a black man
religion is for weak minded people who have trouble coping with the reality of death.
thats why pedophiles become preachers and sunday school teachers
because they know that people who go to church are easy prey
religion is for weak minded people who have trouble coping with the reality of death.
thats why pedophiles become preachers and sunday school teachers
because they know that people who go to church are easy prey
Mkay, firstly, Jesus was likely Arabic.prototype wrote:
Jesus was a black man
religion is for weak minded people who have trouble coping with the reality of death.
thats why pedophiles become preachers and sunday school teachers
because they know that people who go to church are easy prey
Secondly, many smart, hardworking Americans are Christian, and cope with death every day.
Thirdly, there really is no basis for that line of reasoning, there are plenty of other profesions for a pedophile to choose.
I don't think one could classify Jesus as 'Arabic'. Jewish or Aramaic, but not Arabic (though they are related of course).
They cope with death by believing it's not actually death but the beginning of another life in paradise. This is accomplished through a long process of indoctrination. That really is coping with the reality of mortality quite well.NAthANSmitt wrote:
Mkay, firstly, Jesus was likely Arabic.prototype wrote:
Jesus was a black man
religion is for weak minded people who have trouble coping with the reality of death.
thats why pedophiles become preachers and sunday school teachers
because they know that people who go to church are easy prey
Secondly, many smart, hardworking Americans are Christian, and cope with death every day.
Thirdly, there really is no basis for that line of reasoning, there are plenty of other profesions for a pedophile to choose.
All it's missing is the 72 virgins bit.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.