BF2S Forums Is the New Isareli Government on the verge of messing up the peace?

Flecco wrote:

Dilbert, they don't want to ethincally cleanse anything. The right wing Israelis just aren't big on sharing.

Suggest you read some history, from day one they were killing and terrorising the Palestinians with the intention of driving anyone but racially pure jews from 'their' land.

I'll do some research on the Hitler thing.
The final solution came about in large part because the Germans wanted them out and no-one else, the US included, wanted them either.

As the article points out, if the Israelis are involved its not going to happen

However, before he set off for the Middle East Israeli officials said they would not meet him because he would not rule out meeting Palestinian militants.

They had threatened not to allow him to enter Gaza.

He said he regretted the Israeli government's refusal to meet him.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Dilbert, they don't want to ethincally cleanse anything. The right wing Israelis just aren't big on sharing.

Suggest you read some history, from day one they were killing and terrorising the Palestinians with the intention of driving anyone but racially pure jews from 'their' land.

I'll do some research on the Hitler thing.
The final solution came about in large part because the Germans wanted them out and no-one else, the US included, wanted them either.

Heydrich came up with the Final Solution at a conference and put the idea to Himmler, who took it to Hitler.

The left wing of Israeli politics which has been heavily marginalised since the 1970s or so, but originally afaik, their hope was to found Israel as a state for all the peoples of the Caanan area and tie it to the heritage of the area, not one specific peoples after liberating it from British control.

Heydrich was a cunt.

FEOS wrote:

The support for Zionism extended beyond just England and Germany. As I said, I don't have the book in front of me to list all the countries by name. I do recall England and Germany specifically. I was somewhat surprised when I read that bit, myself.

I think we might be slightly arguing at cross purposes here...

There was a lot of support for Zionism in Europe - but not specifically Zionism as we think of it today, which is where the confusion lies. The support was for the idea of a home for the Jews outside Europe.

Britain, Germany, France, Italy and many others did have widespread support for Zionism. That support did not, in general, extend to the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine - particularly in the case of Britain (and France, for different reasons). This is not to say there were not individual elements within the British government who supported the establishment of such a state. I am uncertain of Germanys position regarding Palestine.

It was after the immigration began that the tide of opinion turned, particularly in Britain and amongst the Arab populace of the region. There are widespread reports of all sorts of behaviour by the immigrants, under the wing of the Jewish agency, causing the tensions between Arabs and Jews which has led to the chaos we now see there. So there is your start point for the modern conflict - the parties may have been pushed together by external forces, but began on amiable terms.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Dilbert, they don't want to ethincally cleanse anything. The right wing Israelis just aren't big on sharing.

Suggest you read some history, from day one they were killing and terrorising the Palestinians with the intention of driving anyone but racially pure jews from 'their' land.

I'll do some research on the Hitler thing.
The final solution came about in large part because the Germans wanted them out and no-one else, the US included, wanted them either.

As far as I'm aware, none of that is true. The Jews did not kill and terrorise Palestinians from day one. They did engage in a systematic policy of economic deprivement (refusal to employ Arabs for example) and land grabbing (interest free/low interest loans and grants made available to all immigrants by the Jewish agency in a deliberate attempt to buy up all the fertile land in the region), as well as other things (such as Jewish doctors refusing to treat Arab patients and the like), which upset the Arabs living there, leading to riots, leading to the establishment of terrorist groups by the Jewish immigrants and eventually leading to a conflict that has gone on for almost a century.

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The support for Zionism extended beyond just England and Germany. As I said, I don't have the book in front of me to list all the countries by name. I do recall England and Germany specifically. I was somewhat surprised when I read that bit, myself.

I think we might be slightly arguing at cross purposes here...

There was a lot of support for Zionism in Europe - but not specifically Zionism as we think of it today, which is where the confusion lies. The support was for the idea of a home for the Jews outside Europe.

Britain, Germany, France, Italy and many others did have widespread support for Zionism. That support did not, in general, extend to the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine - particularly in the case of Britain (and France, for different reasons). This is not to say there were not individual elements within the British government who supported the establishment of such a state. I am uncertain of Germanys position regarding Palestine.

It was after the immigration began that the tide of opinion turned, particularly in Britain and amongst the Arab populace of the region. There are widespread reports of all sorts of behaviour by the immigrants, under the wing of the Jewish agency, causing the tensions between Arabs and Jews which has led to the chaos we now see there. So there is your start point for the modern conflict - the parties may have been pushed together by external forces, but began on amiable terms.

Fair enough.

Does it not disturb you that all those countries supported a homeland for the Jews...not because they felt they deserved one, but because they just didn't want them in Europe?

Yes. It does.

But WWII did a pretty good job of changing attitudes towards them in Europe. Unfortunately, all the stuff that has gone on in Israel/Palestine over the past century has raised tensions between the Jews and the Muslim world, replacing Europeans not wanting them around with Arabs not wanting them around.